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Lrms, Get Your Own Lock.


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#101 Kjudoon

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 07:19 PM

View PostPariah Devalis, on 05 May 2015 - 03:27 PM, said:


LRM20 would still penetrate the KFX, with a 5 damage hit to a component. Per launcher. On a light mech. Or... you can shoot his friend standing right next to him, who is not benefiting from the KFX's triple AMS whatsoever, because these AMS would not share onto allies. "Selfish" AMS.


Okay... let ams apply to ac rounds too then. I am sure having all but an ac 20 unable to get through would be considered fair. Particularly when it can shoot stuff down not even aimed at you. And be able to defend through solid objects like buildings and tunnels.

Ams needs to be removed from the game till fixed.

Let the whiners learn to use cover as they should.

#102 Alistair Winter

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 07:35 PM

MG Boat here. Please strip my targets of armour, kk, thx.

#103 WazOfOz

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 07:49 PM

Seems like a some what catty post poisoner.

#104 TheCharlatan

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 11:02 PM

I will get my own locks.

I will even carry a NARC on all my LRM boats.

But if you want to help me kill the enemy team, just because teamwork is OP, feel free to do it.

#105 Xetelian

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 11:06 PM

I can hardly stand LRM boats as they are now, I'd hate them even more if they were running off getting their own locks.
Some don't bring any backup weapons so it is a real win to have them in every weight on the team...including a light.

#106 Kotzi

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 11:20 PM

View PostInspectorG, on 05 May 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:


Exactly,
Lazor is insta damage and Dakka is less travel time compared to lrm. If you need me to explain the math, i dont know if i can help you, its pretty obvious.

However,

IMO, i think LRMs DO need more functionality, but i think the direct fire/ECM/indirect fire mechanic needs improved and LRMs need a function of aiming with the 'B' map to target beyond terrain.

This could also lead to more scout/spot roles for lights.



Problem in if LRM is too effective, people will abandon Lazor and Dakka. So meta would be 1 weapon instead of 2.5.

The direct fire/ ECM/ indirect fire mechanic needs changed.

Lrms dont need face time if done right. Damaging the enemy without less retaliation thats what you are looking for. But that needs a team and pugs to be patient. No idiots rushing into oblivion in the first 5 minutes. Bad games end in that amount of time or even less.

#107 bad arcade kitty

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 11:20 PM

what's wrong with lrm lights, kit fox with 25-30 lrm, 2 jump jets and 4-5.5 tonne of ammo, ecm and med laser is one of my favorite kit fox builds for conquest, you can back cap points, support your team with lrms at the same time and if they send somebody to you, you flee and it's wasted time for them to hunt you

the worst thing it's to meet enemy lights, but any cute fox except streak one is weak against lights anyway

#108 skorpionet

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 01:49 AM

View PostPoisoner, on 04 May 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

Not sure how else I can elaborate this.


In my humble opinion, you and others that think same way completely miss the point of the advantage of LRM support. This is a teamplay game, not a rush to best DMG or Kills between teammates.

#109 Kjudoon

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 03:59 AM

View Postskorpionet, on 06 May 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:


In my humble opinion, you and others that think same way completely miss the point of the advantage of LRM support. This is a teamplay game, not a rush to best DMG or Kills between teammates.

But but but.... I r Rambo u r mah sidekicks oar jus AIs who let meh down?

#110 Beld

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 04:31 AM

I pilot a LRM Peacedove with artemis+tag and BAP,
You can keep your stinking locks.
More often than not i'm the highest dmg on the team
and quite often the last man standing.

#111 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 04:37 AM

View PostGagis, on 05 May 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

Yes. LRMpuke fails to kill enemies, while laser vomit is extremely good at killing enemies and dakka barf is decently good at killing enemies. Therefore LRMpuke is bad, and laser vomit and dakka barf are good.

The standard is singular, and quite clear. You are valued based on how much you contribute to the actual fighting. LRM Assaults do not contribute enough to justify wasting a lot of valuable tonnage on them. Those assault slots and tons are very valuable, and if enemy has 4 assaults on the front line and your team has 3 assaults on the front and one asault shooting lurms on rocks and buildings from its spawn point, the enemy wins. Ditto for wasting 2/5 of your drop deck tonnage on a mech that does not participate in a push.
Then you haven't seen a good 100 ton LRM player. Cause a good LRM assault isn't hitting rocks. :P

#112 Shae Starfyre

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 04:42 AM

So, in the spirit of this post, I went into puglandia with a Crab-0000 with 3 LRM 15's, 1 Narc, and (three variant loadouts - 1 LPL, 4 MPL, and a 2 LL version - no Balistics), and the Narc was surprising helpful especially now with the indicator).

The idea was to stay with the pack, slightly behind within narc range, and fire secondary weapons with the narc and they would panic from two psycological effects.

CRAB!
NARC'd

and they would back up and with the cool down module those 15's really put them into the last psychological phase

Fuuuuuuuuu

Anyways, lots of assists and kill or two, but mostly assists, and high 600-900 damage games.

It was fun.

Edited by Aphoticus, 06 May 2015 - 04:42 AM.


#113 AccessTime

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 07:15 AM

View Postskorpionet, on 06 May 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

This is a teamplay game, not a rush to best DMG or Kills between teammates.

The problem is that the C-bill reward system encourages the latter. I can get close to 200,000 CBills (no premium bonus) in a loss, or less than 100,000 in a win. I think the difference between a win and a loss is only 10,000 CBills or so. If they really wanted to encourage team play among pugs, the incentives should reflect that. I know CW is a bit different, but that is dominated by premades and to pug CW is a recipe for failure from the start.

#114 Almond Brown

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 07:42 AM

View PostAlistair Winter, on 05 May 2015 - 07:35 PM, said:

MG Boat here. Please strip my targets of armour, kk, thx.


Hey, LRM's are good at that. Good call. :)

#115 Almond Brown

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 07:52 AM

If nothing else, this thread and its apparent lack of "team" based spirit does provide a deeper understanding of why so many PUG Matches seem to end in 0-12 losses.

Why would anyone do anything to actually "Help" the Team win, when running off, and dying quickly, allows one to blame those "suck" Teammates and there "suck" weapons for the Lose. LOL! ;)

#116 Poisoner

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 07:58 AM

I've been playing my LRM boat since last night when I saw Rak made a blog post about this thread. Not doing too bad, getting respectable damage. Last night on HPG manifold I kept a whole lance hiding under the Direct TV dish. Even though they had ECM coverage they were too scared to come out.

#117 Spleenslitta

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 08:08 AM

There are 2 things i hate about LRM boats.

1: LRM boats that have no backup weapons then start complaining when they die because the team wasn't there to protect them.
It's your own responsibility to make certain you stay near us so we can protect you.
You can fire from anywhere while the rest of us have to be a bit more selective of where we go.

2: i'm a hit and run kinda guy in both my light and medium mechs.
I preferably hit the target and i'm gone before the enemy can respond.
And yet the LRM boats keep yelling keep your locks....
Sorry but i'm not going to stay in line of sight and get hit because you might on a whim send over some LRM's to help me out.

I once spent over 1/2 minute requesting LRM rain on a Stalker i had hardlocked. What arrived after all that waiting?
1 LRM salvo that exploded 15 meters in front of the target...then nothing. I had to go over there and shoot it myself.
Press R for LRM rain my hairy buttocks.

#118 Apnu

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 08:17 AM

View PostTahribator, on 05 May 2015 - 08:53 AM, said:

I posted my "extended" thoughts about this issue on my blog.


I agree with your points. I run LRMs 1/3 of the time (ADHD, I have to switch things up or bug out from boredom), here's how I run them, which you reference in your post.

How to build a good LRM mech:
Take a medium mech put in an engine that gets you 80KPH or better. (Same for heavies, try to get as close to or better than 80 KPH, the TDR-5S does this as well as the CPLT-C1/C4). Always take TAG, BAP helps if you can fit it, NARC is nice if you can fit it. Always have backup weapon systems, 3 or 4 ML will do. That way when the ECM light flanks you, you can drop the ECM and wreck his face with the MLs. Don't LRM boat, ever, but especially in a light or assault, just don't do it. Sure take LRMs, but always have something else for close in work. One of my AS7-S has MLs, AC20, and LRM25 (10, 3x5), weird I know, but it works. Maximize your tubes. That means on the HBK-4J, don't take LRM15s... every clan player will tell you, trickle LRMs suck. You need to launch all your LRMs at once and they need to land on the target all at once. When looking for good LRM chassis, prefer high mounted missile points over waist or arms. HBK-4J > TBT-7M, despite the tube count and perk on the 7M. Those cockpit height launchers are amazing for hill peeking. Also look for at least one high energy point in the torso or head, its key for hill peeking.

How to play LRMs and be an asset to your team:
Now that the mech built, and it is pretty fast and fairly agile, when the match starts, anchor yourself to the back of the pack. You need to be close to the murder ball, your missiles will have less travel time and if you get flanked you can use that speed to get in the middle of the murder ball and kite the flankers into your brawlers, then re-position to LRM those suckers at 200m, while giving them a few burns from your MLs until heat becomes a problem.

Never trail far behind the team. Your missiles will take longer to reach the target from back there and you're open to flanking. When I'm running brawling mediums I look for isolated snipers and LRMs mechs and I punish them for not sticking to the team. There's not a Direwolf, Atlas or Warhawk I haven't crippled if not killed in my HBK-4G this way. In MWO, if you're alone, you're going to die. (Unless you're in a light moving at 140+ KPH)

Don't depend on your team to get locks. Get your own locks if you can, if you can't, wait for a bit, locks will come, they always do. There's no need to beg for them or QQ about it. That just motivates your team to not hit 'r' Piloting mechs with high mounted LRMs and TAG, means you can sight targets from in or near cover, minimizing your face time.

Be patient (its a theme in MWO), don't blast LRMs the very second you get a lock, especially early in the game. You'll be shooting at some light moving at 140KPH from way the hell out and you'll probably lose lock or they'll out run the LRMs before the land. Don't waste your ammo.

Test if your LRMs can hit the target. Sometimes you've got a good lock but no direct LOS and the target might be near cover that you can't see. Send one LRM launch at the target and wait for the HUD to tell you there's been a hit, then hold down that fire button and grind out that target. When you're not hitting, or the lock goes away, be patient again, they're probably cowing in cover and cursing your name. Smile at this point, you're winning the psychological game.

Move, move, move. Always move. Use that 80KPH speed to re-position. Sometimes that target is in cover, but moving a few hundred meters right or left will expose them to fire and you can rain.
Highly quirked mechs + optimal LRM range (200m-400m), and intellegent fire control means you're going to eat up that ammo fast. You'll run dry, that's where a good secondary weapon system comes in. The truth about LRM is this: Most of them are going to miss. If you're consistently getting 50% accuracy from LRMs, you are a god. LRMs aren't that efficient compared to every other weapon system in the game (except MGs and flamers). So when you run dry, you need to be able to do something besides be a moving pylon. My TDR-5S LRM build has three MLs on it. Late in the game and everybody's running low on ammo, those MLs are golden. That's the time you switch from being in the back of the pack to the central brawler for whomever's left. Your brawlers still alive are going to be torn up badly and one breath from death, but you'll be somewhat fresh, about 70% usually. Move in and tank that armor so your brawlers get a break.

Do those these things and you'll be a well loved asset to your team. Don't think, ever, you'll steal the show with LRMs. Sometimes you can turn the tide of a game, and that's great. Rarely, you'll hit a sweet spot of good locks and lack of ECM on the enemy team and you'll put up a 100+ match point performance. But don't expect that every match. If you manage to return your armor value or more in damage, you're doing really good with LRMs.

LRMs are easy to use, difficult to master.

Edited by Apnu, 06 May 2015 - 08:20 AM.


#119 Lightfoot

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 08:44 AM

Well, number one, LRMs are so weak so Scout mechs can aid in getting the missile lock coordinates. PGI does seem to have stepped back from this though so maybe it's time to make LRMs more powerful with line-of-sight.

Number two only a fool doesn't lock targets to scan the damage of opponent mechs, but it's your k/d ratio and your team's loss.

The "R" key is your best friend.

#120 Apnu

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 10:18 AM

View PostGagis, on 05 May 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

Yes. LRMpuke fails to kill enemies, while laser vomit is extremely good at killing enemies and dakka barf is decently good at killing enemies. Therefore LRMpuke is bad, and laser vomit and dakka barf are good.


My HBK-4J strongly disagrees with you.

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