82 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

No big deal really, but it might make PGI reconsider their ECM's abilities as opposed to the real ECM from Battle Tech. With 6 or 7 mechs carrying ECM it will need BAP as a counter-counter measure or something like it. Personally I find ECM just paints a big target over your mech's PIP, but it does help the team.

[Thomas G Wolf]

El Bandito, on 06 May 2015 - 05:22 PM, said:

Why should we rejoice about ECM being placed on the crappiest 70 tonner in MWO?

Hmmm I always thought that that was the Summoner, but then if you cannot play the Mech then maybe your right but just for yourself.

[Mcgral18]

Eric Wulfen, on 07 May 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Hmmm I always thought that that was the Summoner, but then if you cannot play the Mech then maybe your right but just for yourself.

This one will have similar, or worse, hardpoints than the Summoner.

It's not particularly great.

[Gagis]

The hull and its hard points not being great is probably kind of the point.

ECM is the single most powerful module you can put in a mech. It is very dangerous to allow for a top tier hull.

[kapusta11]

May 19? I will be playing Witcher 3 at that point.

Btw, what about Cataphracr 3L? It has MASC and supposed to be available in 3051.

Edited by kapusta11, 07 May 2015 - 10:58 AM.

[Ingvay]

All I can say as a mostly heavy and medium mech pilot is: yes please!

Since the Black Knight isn't coming with an ECM variant anytime soon... this will do. PPC, AC5 & 2 arm mounted Medium Lasers, on a 70 ton ECM capable mech.... that can work.

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 07 May 2015 - 12:22 AM, said:

1. Hellbringer without ECM is not crap. Ask everyone here.

I don't think that's accurate. The argument is actually is "if you're not bringing the ECM torso, you're a fool". 3E+ECM vs 1E or for some people, the 3rd missile hardpoint on Hellbringer (which is sad if you must trade the ECM for more Lurms).

I mean, you "could" build a Hellbringer with 3M, but at the cost of ECM, I shake my head in sadness and confusion for that.

Troutmonkey, on 07 May 2015 - 04:28 AM, said:

The Phract is a bad mech?
Wow, I must be a halfway good pilot then because I've never had any trouble with it in the solo queue.
My 3D still kicks arse against clanners with Twin UAC5 and 4ML on a standard engine.

Judgments through the solo queue isn't actually a good way to judge balance. In the 3D's case, if people bothered to shoot the Right Torso to disable more than half your weapons, your build effectively becomes junk.

At higher levels of play, weaknesses in mechs are exposed, and when you don't see them exposed in the solo queue, well... that's all that needs to be said.

Edited by Deathlike, 07 May 2015 - 12:13 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

KodiakGW, on 07 May 2015 - 05:55 AM, said:

"Gift store first"

So just like the April 21st new variants, which become available for CBill and MC on June 16th, they will be locked behind a paywall for the first two months.

http://mwomercs.com/...tore-april-21st

Sorry, when I hear "pay wall" my mind usually jumps to "pay-to-win" which is not the same thing. Also, all mechs come out a bit strong when they are first released due to a number of reasons. Some of them might be nefarious, but the biggest one is usually the fact that they haven't been tested, and balanced thoroughly, which PGI just can't do. They can test a mech for 6 months on end, and within the first day we will have played more matches, come up with more builds, and tried out more tactics than they would have in those 6 months.

However, as far as the pay wall goes for this cataphract, I look at it as them trying to minimize the abuse from a new model hitting the game. If it was available to large numbers of people immediately, and it turned out to be OP, then the damage is minimized to a small number of matches. Instead of it being immediately available to everyone, and flat out breaking the game within the first couple of days.

I've rarely seen, in this game or others, a new character/hero/mech/archetype being introduced into the game without the first 2-3 months being a massive trial test full of complaints, and cries of "PLZ nerf". So I expect them, and don't consider that a bad thing.

[Alex Morgaine]

Iunno, without any quirks, assuming the hard points don't inflate and stay where they are on the model(no high mount gauss hijinks) is this decent? Decent ish?
death ball support?
maybe a little more dps?

I dint know, just go ac20, ml, and call it a heavy hunch back?

[IraqiWalker]

Frosty Brand, on 07 May 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

Iunno, without any quirks, assuming the hard points don't inflate and stay where they are on the model(no high mount gauss hijinks) is this decent? Decent ish?
death ball support?
maybe a little more dps?

I dint know, just go ac20, ml, and call it a heavy hunch back?

You posted the same build twice. XD

[Alex Morgaine]

... dan-met.
One was supposed to be lb-10, 325xl 2lpl one mpl
Second was uac5, 300xl, 3lpl

[Alex Morgaine]

to lazy to fix ammo

[Troutmonkey]

Deathlike, on 07 May 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

Judgments through the solo queue isn't actually a good way to judge balance. In the 3D's case, if people bothered to shoot the Right Torso to disable more than half your weapons, your build effectively becomes junk.

At higher levels of play, weaknesses in mechs are exposed, and when you don't see them exposed in the solo queue, well... that's all that needs to be said.

I know the solo queue might not be top tier gaming, but as a comparison to my other mechs on that same baseline? Yeah it does well and is by no means "Bad" or "Unplayable". Sure, it's no longer the be all end all meta-mech jump sniper that it was, but it's still a good mech unlike several other IS heavies.

And as with an asymmetric build, learning to torso twist is key. It's actually an advantage to be able to use the left side as shield.

[Stoned Prophet]

Steve Pryde, on 07 May 2015 - 03:21 AM, said:

Thirst PGI should rework ECM before they introduce an new ECM mech.

Youre right, ECM is just too easy to counter. they really shouldnt add more mechs until its effectiveness is increased.

KodiakGW, on 07 May 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:

Let's dissect this:



I won't argue that model work had to go into some of the new variants (like the high mount laser torso on the TW). But, animations, mech design, and the majority of the 3D work on new variants are already done. Especially the IS ones. You are using the same chassis, with no special custom paint job, just new hardpoints.



The only people who won enough MC to buy a new mech during an event were the ones who got into, and maintained their spot in the top 5. So, about .1% of the playerbase (based on recent CW event). The most I have ever made in one of these events is 450 MC, which is probably the average player haul. Well short of buying any heavy mech for MC. Instead, I purchased something I thought was fun, like the Classy Mech bobblehead. Which, I believe, was the intention of these events. Not to save up for a new mech. An average player would need to do 8-10 of those events to get enough to purchase a mech.

All I said was that they are locking this behind a paywall for the first two months. Which is true. As we have already seen, they may give the new variant some outstanding quirks upon release, only to adjust them lower as soon as it becomes generally available. So, it may be that in order to level it without a lot of pain, you need to pay cash now.

I’m all for supporting the game. I purchased the CB Wave 3 and Urbie Collectors edition for reasons I already explained in other threads. I don’t like that they are devaluing the real money purchase means that has been in game all this time. I had 10K MC saved for new mechs for the longest time. I decided to spend the most of it recently on the Hero sale because I see that it has been devalued in turn for the pay now Gift Store.

You could just wait until its available for mc. they havent devalued anything. People demanded a gift store. We got one. Now if you want to argue it should be in game for MC the same time its in game through gift store, well, i cant say I disagree with that.

[El Bandito]

Eric Wulfen, on 07 May 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Hmmm I always thought that that was the Summoner, but then if you cannot play the Mech then maybe your right but just for yourself.

Play the Summoner. You will see differently.

IraqiWalker, on 07 May 2015 - 02:12 PM, said:

Sorry, when I hear "pay wall" my mind usually jumps to "pay-to-win" which is not the same thing. Also, all mechs come out a bit strong when they are first released due to a number of reasons. Some of them might be nefarious, but the biggest one is usually the fact that they haven't been tested, and balanced thoroughly, which PGI just can't do. They can test a mech for 6 months on end, and within the first day we will have played more matches, come up with more builds, and tried out more tactics than they would have in those 6 months.

However, as far as the pay wall goes for this cataphract, I look at it as them trying to minimize the abuse from a new model hitting the game. If it was available to large numbers of people immediately, and it turned out to be OP, then the damage is minimized to a small number of matches. Instead of it being immediately available to everyone, and flat out breaking the game within the first couple of days.

I've rarely seen, in this game or others, a new character/hero/mech/archetype being introduced into the game without the first 2-3 months being a massive trial test full of complaints, and cries of "PLZ nerf". So I expect them, and don't consider that a bad thing.

Nah, pay to play earlier is a standard tactic used by F2P games. Doesn't make PGI less of a **** but I understand their aims. Also, if PGI was really concerned about new mechs being potentially OP then they could have tested them in their PBE server first--like other F2P games--but they do not. This is just cash grab scheme.

Finally, there have been cries of nerfs towards certain IS over-quirked mechs as well as Timbie and Crow, for months, but PGI is still turning blind eye.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 May 2015 - 04:20 PM.

[Deathlike]

Troutmonkey, on 07 May 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

I know the solo queue might not be top tier gaming, but as a comparison to my other mechs on that same baseline? Yeah it does well and is by no means "Bad" or "Unplayable". Sure, it's no longer the be all end all meta-mech jump sniper that it was, but it's still a good mech unlike several other IS heavies.

And as with an asymmetric build, learning to torso twist is key. It's actually an advantage to be able to use the left side as shield.

I see the use being limited to a degree (kinda like the Griffin-2N) that it'll be used for brawling (think D-DC) and it'll be OK, but won't be primarily used (it'll be good enough for support-ECM for a team's dropdeck, but nothing more than that).

It's not necessarily about the torso twisting issue... it's just easy to exploit given the state of the mech currently, but it is what it is.

[Escef]

El Bandito, on 07 May 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

This is just cash grab scheme.

Jobs are cash grab schemes. Designers and programmers need to eat and have someplace to live, and probably have families to provide for. Servers don't provide their own electricity and internet. Office space doesn't just magically pop out of thin air.

PGI needs to pull in money to keep the game running and paying their people, some profits for the investors doesn't hurt any either. I don't begrudge people making money. They aren't hurting anyone, no one is forced to buy anything.

[El Bandito]

Escef, on 07 May 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

Jobs are cash grab schemes. Designers and programmers need to eat and have someplace to live, and probably have families to provide for. Servers don't provide their own electricity and internet. Office space doesn't just magically pop out of thin air.

PGI needs to pull in money to keep the game running and paying their people, some profits for the investors doesn't hurt any either. I don't begrudge people making money. They aren't hurting anyone, no one is forced to buy anything.

At least you have acknowledged that this is indeed a cash grabbing scheme.

[Escef]

El Bandito, on 07 May 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

At least you have acknowledged that this is indeed a cash grabbing scheme.

So, I'm guessing you're unemployed? Only people with no money hate it with such vehemence.

[El Bandito]

Escef, on 07 May 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

So, I'm guessing you're unemployed? Only people with no money hate it with such vehemence.

Where do you see the hate? I am simply stating things as is. Or do you have nothing else to do? Just because I have money, that does not mean I will buy everything PGI throws in my direction.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 May 2015 - 06:31 PM.