20 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

There. Said it. Flame away.

But as much as I love Alex's artwork, the Arctic Cheetah is IMO the worst piece he has created for MWO (though considering what he had to work with, it's still not bad). Sorry but that weird rounded Big Robot 6 meets Samus design just doesn't fit the rest of the MWO aesthetic.

IMO, it simply looks to weirdly doughboy and plump (a complaint I had with the Orion, too, oddly enough). Hey, it's not a knock. Even Alex can't hit a home run every time he steps up to bat. And I freely acknowledge, it's my opinion, only, it's subjective.

BUT......


What's not subjective?

Those taller, thinner STs will be better for ingame hitboxes, especially protected by those large shoulders, which will very much have the same type of effect as the similarly large shoulders on a FS9.

Yes, that means you lose your arm easier than your ST. Cue traumatic memories of the Mist Lynx here...... except of course, this mech is faster, and has torso mounted weapons, in superior hardpoint locations that the MLX doesn't? And that is you lose an arm, you still have probably untouched ST locations and your other arm....and every shot that hits the arms is one that isn't coring out yoru ST, which , once it pops, takes that arm with it, anyhow? (along with the attendant extra suck of damaged XL engine and oh yeah, also losing that ST hardpoint)

As for the arm lasers? Um...so what? Objectively in game the height difference won't be noticed by about oh...99% of players....and probably 90% will only have SLs for infighting there anyhow. Plus it appears that for the 2 hardpoint variants, there isn't really room underneath, so they will get your precious side mounts, more than likely.

That's all pretty objective. Really the only gameplay downside I am seeing is the legs might be a bit bulky for a Light, so be curious to see if people "sweep the leg" any easier.

Anyhow, just wanted to tell the guys doing the modeling, thanks, great job.... I am actually far more looking forward to getting mine now than I was based off the concept art.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled Forum Rage.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 03 July 2015 - 11:02 AM.

[Wintersdark]

I like the 3D model more too, actually. Both from a base appearance standpoint (more angular, fits MMO's visuals better) and from a functionality standpoint (high shoulder E points are higher and thinner - smaller targets, better firing angle. And, "low" arm hard points? Eh, if the where on top of the arm, virtually nobody would notice the difference anyways.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

If it weren't a clan mech I'd say it's probably too big, but clan XL means the mechs need to be a bit wider to be somewhat balanced against the IS XL deathtraps.

[GeistHrafn]

Can't wait to get my hands on it.

[Juodas Varnas]

It might be the only mech that looks better as a 3d model than the concept art.
The missile pods could be smaller, though

Kudos to them for not making it wider and fatter than the concept art.
*Cough* Centurion *Cough* Quickdraw *Cough*
Still wish they'd go over them and just slightly stretch/remodel them a bit.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 03 July 2015 - 11:24 AM.

[TheCharlatan]

As much as i love Alex's work, i must admit... the 3D model is better than the artwork.
I'm even thinking about buying it now.
Good job modelers!

We should tell Russ to get them out of the dungeon. Not for too long though.

Edited by TheCharlatan, 03 July 2015 - 11:47 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

TheCharlatan, on 03 July 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

As much as i love Alex's work, i must admit... the 3D model is better than the artwork.
I'm even thinking about buying it now.
Good job modelers!

We should tell Russ to get them out of the dungeon. Not for too long though.

can't be nice to the Gnomes too often, not sure they can handle appreciation, what with these forums being so lacking in it, most times.

[Scout Derek]

Bishop, do not get me started on the ugly concept art topic.

The fraking Highlander IIC looks fugly, I mean, just look at it! That conquistidor hat, that bolt action lookalike barrel of a rifle, and the scaling, oh the scaling my god!!!! Sorry Alex, but that's the only one that looks ugly, the rest are beautiful.

Edited by Scout Derek, 03 July 2015 - 12:51 PM.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Scout Derek, on 03 July 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

The fraking Highlander IIC looks fugly, I mean, just look at it! That conquistidor hat, that bolt action lookalike barrel of a rifle, and the scaling, oh the scaling my god!!!! Sorry Alex, but that's the only one that looks ugly, the rest are beautiful.

Couldn't disagree more on the Highlander IIC. Alex's art is incredibly faithful to the original TRO: 3060 art.

Do like the model of the Arctic Cheetah over the concept art. Looks more like a fluffy cheetah of the far north than the Pilsbury Doughboy of the concept and TRO art.

[Scout Derek]

Nathan Foxbane, on 03 July 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

Couldn't disagree more on the Highlander IIC. Alex's art is incredibly faithful to the original TRO: 3060 art.

Do like the model of the Arctic Cheetah over the concept art. Looks more like a fluffy cheetah of the far north than the Pilsbury Doughboy of the concept and TRO art.

I can respect the disagreement, but the highlander IS concept art somehow just looks better to me, I don't know why....

Probably because I can tell how tall it is. :/

[ChapeL]

I wonder what the general opinion would be on either the concept art or the 3D model if they were presented from the same angle. ( either concept full frontal like the 3D model above or vice versa). I'm thinking they aren't that far apart after all.

[Alistair Winter]

How much weight does this thing have to play with again?

[Scout Derek]

Alistair Winter, on 03 July 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:

How much weight does this thing have to play with again?

Around 7 I believe with full armor and ecm. So 6 mediums and a tc or dhs, or go 7 small pulse with ecm

[Bishop Steiner]

Alistair Winter, on 03 July 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:

How much weight does this thing have to play with again?

9.5 tons, but needs about 2 to armor.

Scout Derek, on 03 July 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

Around 7 I believe with full armor and ecm. So 6 mediums and a tc or dhs, or go 7 small pulse with ecm

With those hardpoints? What a waste. At least 1 long range weapon on the shoulders

[LordBraxton]

concept looks way better in every way. I dont know what else to say since this is a purely aesthetic opinion. this new one just looks out of proportion to me

[Alistair Winter]

Well, that's ok then. I'm a bit sad that it doesn't have enough free weight to do some of the Adder builds, combining LPLs with other weapons. But I guess it will be fairly devastating with 6 CERMLs too.

In regards to the design... the worst part of the Arctic Cheetah is the head, in my opinion. Its head looks like the head of an ant. It doesn't look very feline at all. But apart from that, the worst part of Alex Iglesias' design was the fact that it just looked too chubby. Now I wonder if the slimmer shape of the 3D model means that it'll be quite tall.

But one thing that I think the 3D team really screwed up is - you guessed it - the weapons. In the concept sketch the weapons were an organic part of the design. In the actual 3D model, the missile launchers just look like World of Warcraft shoulder pads. I wish they'd shaped the launchers (and adjusted the missile size) to mirror the missile launchers on the Locust.

[Pariah Devalis]

As I said on twitter, the mech itself looks fantastic. Like, holy crap, the mech looks perfect.

The one-size-fits-all weapon pods, however, ruin the look, somewhat.

Let's start with the LRM pods. Slightly too large - larger even than the concept art. Aesthetically, to me (a qualifier that shouldn't need to be said since aesthetics are subjective matters), I'm torn on which of two possibilities are nagging at me. Either they look out of place due to their size, with them being a bit too big vs the concept art, or else it is the physical placement on the upper arm. It seems like it is mounted too off center with the upper arm. Instead of flowing into the design of the arm, they pop out rather obnoxiously. Fortunately, if the other Clan mechs are any indication, the actual housing of SSRMs and SRMs are smaller than LRMs, so going with anything other than LRMs there should mitigate, or eliminate, much of the oversized look they have.

The forearm lasers, on the other hand, are placed in a different location as opposed to the concept art. In the art, they were on the sides of the wrist, while here they are below. I'm not going to be discussing high vs low hardpoint placement here in the context of "optimal" weapon placement in the gameplay - especially with a light mech that most of the time is probably going to be loaded for brawling anyways. Aesthetically, it is a deviation from the concept from both MWO and every piece of artwork of the mech in Battletech, including the models. One which has the negative side effect of increasing the size of the arm hitbox when viewed from the side. Even putting the physical cross section issue aside and forcing myself to look at it aesthetically alone, it's a box strapped to the arm. There is no cowling. There is no transition into the arm. It just sits there, strapped under the arm. To be honest, it is a problem I have with several mechs, not just this one. If they insist on using a one-size-fits-all laser box, at least let there be some sort of effort to integrate the box into the mounting itself so it is not as much of an eyesore.

Finally, the roof rack energy hardpoints. Admittedly, they were displayed similarly in the concept art. However from a standpoint of looks, they could have been recessed into the very top of the side torso spines. It is essentially the same issue I have with the arms, with them just sitting there. While you would actually lose a little height on the mount, if they made the top of the spines and the top of the weapon casing be flush with one another it would make for a far more elegant, more protected look as opposed to it looking like it was simply strapped on.

Or, alternatively, weapon pieces could be more appropriately scaled to the mechs they are mounted on, like what is currently being done with the Catapult's PPCs. One size does not fit all, and this mech (and the Mist Lynx, actually) do show, visually, some disfigurement from it.

I find it especially sad as I, as previously stated in the first sentence of this post, actually think the mech itself looks fantastic. It is a beautiful mech! But those... things are incongruous with the design.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 03 July 2015 - 01:53 PM.

[STEF_]

As we can see, in the original TRO, the missile harpoints ARE the shoulders.
In PGI 3D work, those pods are attached too much outside, imo.

What we are going to ride looks less fatty than the original one, though.


edit: TBH, the original tro looks soooo sexy to me....

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 03 July 2015 - 02:02 PM.

[FupDup]

Pariah Devalis, on 03 July 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

As I said on twitter, the mech itself looks fantastic. Like, holy crap, the mech looks perfect.

The one-size-fits-all weapon pods, however, ruin the look, somewhat.

Let's start with the LRM pods. Slightly too large - larger even than the concept art. Aesthetically, to me (a qualifier that shouldn't need to be said since aesthetics are subjective matters), I'm torn on which of two possibilities are nagging at me. Either they look out of place due to their size, with them being a bit too big vs the concept art, or else it is the physical placement on the upper arm. It seems like it is mounted too off center with the upper arm. Instead of flowing into the design of the arm, they pop out rather obnoxiously. Fortunately, if the other Clan mechs are any indication, the actual housing of SSRMs and SRMs are smaller than LRMs, so going with anything other than LRMs there should mitigate, or eliminate, much of the oversized look they have.

The forearm lasers, on the other hand, are placed in a different location as opposed to the concept art. In the art, they were on the sides of the wrist, while here they are below. I'm not going to be discussing high vs low hardpoint placement here in the context of "optimal" weapon placement in the gameplay - especially with a light mech that most of the time is probably going to be loaded for brawling anyways. Aesthetically, it is a deviation from the concept from both MWO and every piece of artwork of the mech in Battletech, including the models. One which has the negative side effect of increasing the size of the arm hitbox when viewed from the side. Even putting the physical cross section issue aside and forcing myself to look at it aesthetically alone, it's a box strapped to the arm. There is no cowling. There is no transition into the arm. It just sits there, strapped under the arm. To be honest, it is a problem I have with several mechs, not just this one. If they insist on using a one-size-fits-all laser box, at least let there be some sort of effort to integrate the box into the mounting itself so it is not as much of an eyesore.

Finally, the roof rack energy hardpoints. Admittedly, they were displayed similarly in the concept art. However from a standpoint of looks, they could have been recessed into the very top of the side torso spines. It is essentially the same issue I have with the arms, with them just sitting there. While you would actually lose a little height on the mount, if they made the top of the spines and the top of the weapon casing be flush with one another it would make for a far more elegant, more protected look as opposed to it looking like it was simply strapped on.

Or, alternatively, weapon pieces could be more appropriately scaled to the mechs they are mounted on, like what is currently being done with the Catapult's PPCs. One size does not fit all, and this mech (and the Mist Lynx, actually) do show, visually, some disfigurement from it.

I find it especially sad as I, as previously stated in the first sentence of this post, actually think the mech itself looks fantastic. It is a beautiful mech! But those... things are incongruous with the design.

TL;DR: Legomechs

[Pariah Devalis]

FupDup, on 03 July 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

TL;DR: Legomechs

Accurately summed up. Thanks.

Edit:

Cheap and dirty photochop:


Left is the original. Right is with the pods kept the same size, but shifted down on the spines and in on the missile pods.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 03 July 2015 - 02:34 PM.