31 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Well, I'll keep it simple this time.

Class V (Lights) - It needs more lift. I regularly use 2 JJs (at most 3), and it never really makes sense that the lightest mechs don't fly reasonably high, unless they prefer to burn for it (Mist Lynx, and overheating on Mordor no less).

Class IV (Mediums) - While I think it might need more lift (I use 2 generally), it may need something else to compensate... like more fuel (like someone suggested previously), which makes more sense.

Class III (Heavies) - More lift is necessary here, as I feel like I need 3-4 JJs to get any lift (I use 2 or 3 generally). It's just a PITA to jump with the tonnage commitment (1 ton vs .5 ton for smaller mechs).

Class II ("light" Assaults - only the Victor) - Some increased thrust is necessary, but more fuel is probably a better solution given the tonnage trade that doesn't entirely exist (similar to Class IV JJs on Mediums vs Class V JJs on Lights). I use 2 or 3 (occasionally 4), but generally I don't feel it gives much value.

Class I ("heavy" Assaults - Highlander/Direwolf/Executioner) - The origination of the Hoverjet™ phenomenon is just bad. There's ABSOLUTELY no reason to run more than 2 JJs (just for duplication due to destruction) as you might as well imagine a Dire Wolf farting (I just run 1 JJ because on the Dire, which I suspect many of the competitive units/players would do if they wanted to field a Direwolf). That's how bad it is. The thrust does not proportionally compensate for the tonnage investment. (Do you like spending 10 tons on a Heavy Metal's 5 JJs maximum?) This needs to be fixed drastically, above all other complaints mentioned here. 2 tons apparently aren't what they used to be.

[Mechteric]

Jump jets are pretty useless across the board for actually jumping. Light mechs need it to feather falls, and medium mechs to some degree as well for that and humping their way up steep hills. But almost entirely useless for heavy and assault mechs.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

What I'd l like to consider for Jump Jets is new mechanism that provides separate surges of Jump Jet use based on the number of mounted Jump Jets (that can fluidly animate and stack together). Mount three JJs and the HUD bar is segmented by three, take five JJs and see five segments and so on.

So for example, with forward movement, if you tap the JJ Key once, the mech gains vertical height, using one unit. If you hold the key down there with be a brief duration and cooldown period that would match the Jumping animation before the next JJ segment is used and continuing the Jump.

So being stationary when using the JJ key, the mech gains more horizontal jump distance than vertical height.

This way Jump Jets ideally are not easily exploitable by any potential engine limitations as Jump Jets values and attributes get closer to at least BT benchmarks, not sure how they have been described in the books.

For example, I'd love to see Jump Jets be able to provide more horizontal distance per Jet, where when a single Jump Jet should ideally reach a distance of 15 horizontal meters at max height then be able to move safely down 15 meters matching the BT hex distance. If a series of Jump Jet Segments are used than the mech should gain additional distance and gaining height every 15 or so meters. So if a mech has five Jets total and uses four, that mech would be able to move 60 meters and have momentum for a further 60 meters,where saving the last JJ unit segment can provide a safe landing. Max heights maybe could be ~6 meters (as the BT levels) for vertical movement per Jump Jet or whatever height value works best for MWO; and this way each Jet should be able to then provide a consistent level or performance.

And once you land, the bars regenerate one at a time, and have their associated duration and cooldown periods before being able to use the JJ unit segments again, so that things like bunny hops are impossible and provide the opportunity for smoother jumping animations and allow for faster speeds and distances closer to the P&P benchmarks.

Depending on what can be designed and programed, this could also make jumps more predictable to use where, say you are in the thick of action and need to escape, your mech has 6 Jump Jets and you have used five units to quickly scale some crystals on Tourmaline, to reach an area that than sharply drops down lower and will give you fall damage if free falling. But since you saved one Jump Jet unit, with proper timing, you can fire off the last Jet to avoid the fall damage.

Hope I'm making sense with what I'm trying to describe!

[Yosharian]

Discussing buffs to jumpjets is useless unless you address the problems that made jumpjet mechs overpowered in previous balance iterations.

[VtTimber]

Balance - all mechs that have JJ hardpoints have the stock # of JJs hardlocked so you can't remove the base number. You can add but can not remove. Then buff JJs appropriately. You now have balance where you are FORCED to lose tonnage to have more agility. Also make it so you can't fire weapons while in the air.

[Nathan Foxbane]

What when wrong with jump jets was really simple. PGI started with a good idea: scale jumping by the quantity of jump jets mounted. They forgot to do one crucial thing, adjust scaling on a per variant basis for jump jet capacity limit. Three JJs are nothing to a Firestarter, but everything to a Highlander.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 08 May 2015 - 02:31 PM.

[GeneralArmchair]

IMO, buff JJ's across the board but make weapon convergence go haywire when jumping.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Khobai, on 07 May 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

The problem with buffing jumpjets is that it makes jumpjet mechs outright better than non-jumpjet mechs.

Because hillclimbing is so stupid right now that mechs cant even walk over small pebbles without getting stuck.

If jumpjets get buffed than hillclimbing needs to be fixed so not having jumpjets isnt as huge of a disadvantage.

What he said. Fix the ****** movement code so non JJ mechs aren't ******. Then you can fix JJs

But my personal pet project is to make JJs an all or nothing affair. You want JJs on your Victor or Cataphract? Well, you can take the 4 that come stock or you don't equip any at all.

[Khobai]

Quote

What when wrong with jump jets was really simple. PGI started with a good idea: scale jumping by the quantity of jump jets mounted.

Personally I think that idea is terrible. Since it allows players to invest the bare minimum tonnage in jumpjets.

Jumpjets should be ALL OR NOTHING.

Mechs should only be able to jump if their jumpjets are maxed out. However the amount of jump would be based on the number of jumpjets.

[Lord Perversor]

Nathan Foxbane, on 08 May 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

What when wrong with jump jets was really simple. PGI started with a good idea: scale jumping by the quantity of jump jets mounted. They forgot to do one crucial thing, adjust scaling on a per variant basis for jump jet capacity limit. Three JJs are nothing to a Firestarter, but everything to a Highlander.

This i always tought PGI should add a % increase in vertical and horizontal speed boost per extra JJ.

this way a Mechwarrior who choose to sacrifice weight in order to mount extra JJ get a faster lift and longer reach allowing to maneuver with them way faster...

P.S: vector movement even if it's just a little side boost may come handy too.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

All MWO Jump Jets are trash.

Give lore value level JJ's and balance by making heavier mechs fuel return at a slower rate.

Whoa look at that, I gave the Victor and Highlander a niche

[LT. HARDCASE]

Class IV need more fuel. The lift is decent but they burn through their fuel reserve way to fast.

Class III needs to be separated, so the 60 tonners can have a buff. Or give them Class IV and be done with it.