232 replies to this topic

[Lyoto Machida]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 May 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

What?!?!?!?!?

Fine upstanding MWO citizens could possibly twist and misrepresent things for their own petty agendas?!?!?!!' Never! Why look just how credible and reliable the MWO Reddit crowd is! Pillars of the community!

Which pillar? Information warfare?

When?

[Bishop Steiner]

Lyoto Machida, on 10 May 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

Which pillar? Information warfare?

When?

SOON^tm

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 May 2015 - 10:38 PM.

[meteorol]

Raggedyman, on 10 May 2015 - 09:28 PM, said:

Does anyone have a copy of the contract? Because if it says "to be governed by Location X laws" then that makes things incredibly simpler for taking someone to court in Location X.

Pretty sure they have a chosen place of jurisdiction. I hope that's the correct word because english is not my native language.
That aside, i wouldn't discuss law issues on game forums on the internet. I studied law (neither US nor canadian, so i won't say anything about this case... well i would never do it either way) and generally people on the internet have no idea what the hell they are talking about when it comes to law.
They have no idea where they can sue who for what and just make wild claims, because they once heard something.
There is just way too much superficial knowledge in this area.
In my country, the law study is brutally hard. Like 1/4 fail the final exams after learning every single day for a year or more. On average graduates only reach about 1/3 of the maximum possible score. If you reach 2/3 of the maximum score, you are often among the best 1.5-3% (varies a bit from year to year). In my year, only 15% of the graduates managed to get above 50% of the maximum score. I can imagine that law study in other countries is not exactly a cakewalk either.

Law is just damn complicated and no one will be in the position to make a valid claim about something after skipping through some wikipedia pages. Sadly, that is what most people do. So i wouldn't even start discussion law on the internet, because it will lead nowhere.

[Kiiyor]

LORD TSARKON, on 09 May 2015 - 07:13 PM, said:

I"m assuming this is what we are talking about? I took out the name of the cheater... but its pretty freakin blantant cheating if you ask me...





Look at the 2nd gif above..... That Aimbot is just ITCHIN for some Bitchin...

Hope the Ban is a Month or longer.... Person has been playing since 2012.... for shame..

I was quite sceptical. I'm not sold on the first one, because the video was spectated by the commentators (which can contain irregularities due to latency differences), but that second bit is quite damning, and a little depressing.

Still, it's a lynch mob thus far. I'd love for PGI to clarify, as this has already become somewhat of a **** storm. Some sort of statement would be nice.

[Kiiyor]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 10 May 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

I once got headshotted together with my 3 other buddy in row. It was a gauss headshot 3 times in row within 1 minute. That was most likely an aimbot hack

Or it was me.

If i'm in my Gauss Yager, and think I have even a small chance of successfully landing a decent hit, I will ALWAYS aim for faces (and quite often hit, especially at medium range). My best is 4 headshots in 6 reloads; 2 DireWolves, an Atlas, and a freak shot to a Jenner. Only three were kills though.

All you need to do is practice, take a few extra seconds aiming, and BAM, success+enemy rage. Most people seem to think headshots are some mythical beast, but these are also likely people that aim center mass. If you aim for faces enough, you start to hit them - and even a 30% face hit rate is something stupendous.

My beloved headhunter can also throw damage out to over 2500m, and do full damage at 830 or so. Many a player has accused me of cheating on alpine when their return fire with MLAS is shrugged off.

[Lily from animove]

it would just cause endless drama and not change anything at all.

[Raggedyman]

meteorol, on 10 May 2015 - 11:11 PM, said:

Pretty sure they have a chosen place of jurisdiction. I hope that's the correct word because english is not my native language.

as far as I know you are bang on the money with that one

meteorol, on 10 May 2015 - 11:11 PM, said:

Law is just damn complicated and no one will be in the position to make a valid claim about something after skipping through some wikipedia pages. Sadly, that is what most people do. So i wouldn't even start discussion law on the internet, because it will lead nowhere.

When it comes to my knowledge of online T&Cs and video game law/online services I happily admit 99% of it is from listening to fully qualified lawyers who have been paid a lot of money going "right, the way it works is this....".

[Joseph Mallan]

XX Sulla XX, on 09 May 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:

>> No names given in post to stay away from the no name and shame policy.<<

>>Please do not name any one in this thread you think was cheating.<<

Shorter version for skimmers.

Here is why it can be important and not just about gossip.

1. Player playing in tournaments for money.
2. PGI wants to show they are banning cheaters.
3. Player did not cheat and PGI can clear their name.

Well since a certain high profile competitive player was banned yesterday its got me thinking. It is best for the banned players and game for people to know why. When PGI does not say why they are banned most people assume cheating. If them or their friends say it was for being a jerk in email or trolling etc many people will assume they are covering up for their friend.

Also for PGI I think it would be good for the community to know why PGI is banning people. Also would be good for the community to know if PGI are finding and banning cheaters.

Any way just my thoughts.

How would one do this? And if Billy pays me to win him a trinket... isn't that his problem?

[Lily from animove]

Kiiyor, on 11 May 2015 - 02:43 AM, said:

Or it was me.

If i'm in my Gauss Yager, and think I have even a small chance of successfully landing a decent hit, I will ALWAYS aim for faces (and quite often hit, especially at medium range). My best is 4 headshots in 6 reloads; 2 DireWolves, an Atlas, and a freak shot to a Jenner. Only three were kills though.

All you need to do is practice, take a few extra seconds aiming, and BAM, success+enemy rage. Most people seem to think headshots are some mythical beast, but these are also likely people that aim center mass. If you aim for faces enough, you start to hit them - and even a 30% face hit rate is something stupendous.

My beloved headhunter can also throw damage out to over 2500m, and do full damage at 830 or so. Many a player has accused me of cheating on alpine when their return fire with MLAS is shrugged off.

I think this is very locational in its behaior, some of us simply by connection cna aim at a whole section and visually hit it yet you do not even land your shots there. If that is your daily MWO experience, there is hardly a reason even to try aiming on a cockpit unless a mehc is shut down, because anythign in movement makes regular HSR already a massive luckbased journey.
This may funnily also be a reason why we may have more hackers than we think, yet maybe those hacks work very inefficient. because hitreg is making anyways what it feels like. And so many may even drop their hacks too, because the benefit may not be what they hope.

Edited by Lily from animove, 11 May 2015 - 05:01 AM.

[nehebkau]

Novakaine, on 09 May 2015 - 07:28 PM, said:

... There is a simple reason why criminals names and deeds are made public.
For the good of the community and to be a lesson to the rest of us. ...

And this is the fundamental truth of why cheaters should be named. There are no legal issues here since ones' fake/fictional online persona is not protected under Canadian law. There is the issue of a community needing to see that justice is being served -- it is a basic human need and the foundation of every society from tiny tribal villages to the United Nations. The game can not survive without a healthy community.

Wintersdark, on 10 May 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

It's why, when someone gets headshot and immediately spouts off that the player who did it is hacking, I put them in the "pathetic, sore loser" basket. I can't stand people who are such sore losers they'll try to diminish someone's accomplishment just because they lost to them.

True story: What if the player hits your head 8 times in a row from between 1300 - 1500 M while you are moving and torso twisting (was barely doing damage)? Can you call them out as a cheater then or would you still be a pathetic sore loser? (BTW I was purposely walking back and forth in the open to test this individual)

Edited by nehebkau, 11 May 2015 - 05:49 AM.

[Lily from animove]

nehebkau, on 11 May 2015 - 05:11 AM, said:

And this is the fundamental truth of why cheaters should be named. There are no legal issues here since ones' fake/fictional online persona is not protected under Canadian law. There is the issue of a community needing to see that justice is being served -- it is a basic human need and the foundation of every society from tiny tribal villages to the United Nations. The game can not survive without a healthy community.

Not really,

Making it public is for one thing also a proof of its legally, otherwise people could disappear and no one cna proof why and why this removel can be illegally. Which in some countries is still working.
Makign the name public is mostly to show the community who did it and to take care, which in the internets anonymity and especially in f2p games hardly works.

I don't really need this stuff public, as long as these people disappear and no one has to deal again with them its enough.
if you make it public, a downside could be bad advertising, because suddenly one will say: wow look so many hackers, exploiters, flamers, must be a sh*t game. So that medal has two sides, and as long as there aren't too much of these people running around that everyone knows it anyways, The few disappearing do not need to be made public.

[C E Dwyer]

Mister Blastman, on 09 May 2015 - 06:02 PM, said:

I don't think so sometimes... Guess who this was?



That was Captain Kidd. He was left to hang in London for all to see for three years. Piracy never died.

And then you had idiots like this guy...




His name was Stede Bonnet. He was quite possibly one of the stupidest pirates in history. He was born into wealth and took up piracy apparently because he was bored and wanted adventure.

In fact, if you read about a lot of pirates (I have), many had screws loose (captain obvious), some were smart but for the most part, they did it because well, that's who they were. They were wired for it. It was in their blood.

The golden age of piracy ended around 1720, but piracy has never died off. Nor has criminal behavior. All humans are wired for survival. All life is. It is in our DNA. It is the essence of life on Earth. Driven to survive, be it need for food, fame or fortune, it is all governed by the same basic instinct all Earth life shares.

So hanging cheaters up to dry might not stop them. In fact, many probably wouldn't care. But it would give the rest of us respite. And that can be good and bad...

Anyone remember these?



That didn't happen too long ago. It was a very dark time in our nation's past. Many innocent women died because people believed in poppycock such as witches, warlocks and magic. But they felt better after a burn or a hanging for a little while. That is, until the next female slighted someone with a stare, potion or brew. Throw another witch on the fire, Shel Silverstein's masterpiece could be re-written to say. And that's what they did.

So tread carefully when considering a topic like this. It isn't cut and dry.



Oh, and here's some Shel (for context). Rest in peace, dude.



And lastly, there was this guy...



He died while dueling another ship's captain. One of the captain's shipmates ran up behind Edward Teach (Blackbeard) and stabbed/cut off his head. It was promptly put on Robert Maynard's bowsprit, left for all to see.

He's still idolized to this day.

had to quote it all such a great post and worth looking at twice.

Very off topic, but if you have studied nut job sailors you must have heard about Sir Richard Grenville of the Revenge, he to me is the ultimate naval hero, you can forget your drakes and Nelsons and other sea faring types, he is the bomb.

Part of Howards fleet, they stopped at the Azores for resupply, on hearing of a large Spanish fleet, Howard wisely scarpered, not so Grenville, he made his ship good let his crew get better, and then went out to face 53 Spanish ships in a three day battle crippling three, and damaging twelve so badly they had to pull away.Even being boarded three times, they were still fought off, when he was finally mortally wounded, the legend goes he terrified the Spanish sailors by eating broken glasses, and calling his crew traitors for surrendering, rather than blowing up revenge.

Edited by Cathy, 11 May 2015 - 05:46 AM.

[Johnny Z]

I only seen one time since I started playing that I can guarantee a aim bot and it was recently.


I was about 700 meters away and a Raven on my team was completely stationary the entire time on a ridge above the enemy well back from the ridge. Way to far to be seen. He hadnt been up until then either. No UAV's.

A summoner jump jets up and around the side with his guns on the Raven perfectly aimed the entire time and takes out its side torso one shot from mid air.

Its wasnt a pop tart hit he came around the side of the ridge guns locked to invisible(to him) raven in mid air.

Even if there had been a uav or the raven was moving and visible on seismic the 0 deviation in aim would scream aim bot. That there was no movement or uav clinches it. He was locked on no question.

I will add this also which is also 100% true. The same team did the exact same thing to me before that. But since I didnt have a perfect 3rd person view I cant be 100% sure.

Also I wasnt looking for it to happen again, I was staying back so it wouldnt happen again with a perfect view of the situation.

Also no, when it happened to me I was not on the ridge where the Raven was I was on ground level peaking over cover in my X-5 and the enemy came around corner targeted on me fireing with 0 deviation and firing even before he came around corner entirely.

Edited by Johnny Z, 11 May 2015 - 06:08 AM.

[Devilsfury]

This is the BEST way ever! This is what needs to be done to every cheater. Seriously, if you have to always cheat to win, why play? https://lockerdome.c...652735247986964 I suggest the same thing. Stream their mech out so everyone can watch and bring in GM's to do a 12v1 and let all of them blast a mech of theirs to pieces then delete and ban them completely from the game.

[Tombstoner]

Johnny Z, on 11 May 2015 - 05:47 AM, said:

I only seen one time since I started playing that I can guarntee a aim bot and it was recently.


I was about 700 meters away and a Raven on my team was completely stationary the entire time on a ridge above the enemy well back from the ridge. Way to far to be seen. He hadnt been up until then either. No UAV's.

A summoner jump jets up and around the side with his guns on the Raven perfectly aimed the entire time and takes out its side torso one shot from mid air.

Its wasnt a pop tart hit he came around the side of the ridge guns locked to invisible(to him) raven in mid air.

One way to counter aim bots is with a cone of fire..... PGI will note say why someone was banned since it would ignight a fire storm over how to fix it. MWO was inadvertently built to be AIM bot friendly.

[Lily from animove]

Johnny Z, on 11 May 2015 - 05:47 AM, said:

I only seen one time since I started playing that I can guarantee a aim bot and it was recently.


I was about 700 meters away and a Raven on my team was completely stationary the entire time on a ridge above the enemy well back from the ridge. Way to far to be seen. He hadnt been up until then either. No UAV's.

A summoner jump jets up and around the side with his guns on the Raven perfectly aimed the entire time and takes out its side torso one shot from mid air.

Its wasnt a pop tart hit he came around the side of the ridge guns locked to invisible(to him) raven in mid air.

Even if there had been a uav or the raven was moving and visible on seismic the 0 deviation in aim would scream aim bot. That there was no movement or uav clinches it. He was locked on no question.

I will add this also which is also 100% true. The same team did the exact same thing to me before that. But since I didnt have a perfect 3rd person view I cant be 100% sure.

Also I wasnt looking for it to happen again, I was staying back so it wouldnt happen again with a perfect view of the situation.

700m too far to be seen? you would need to know the ENTIRE match from the summoners side, how do you know that somewhen in the match before he didn't see the raven there?

and how can it be 100% true if you are not 100% sure? do you rething what you type?
In etire yeas, havign 2 things like that. Its not an aimbot gurantee sight, its may just be luck, had a ton of luck situatins as well where some stuff went just lucky and just have looked like ultra pro ... or cheating.

I have died a lot of times when I have not even seen the guy around the corner shooting eve if I look at that corner, simply because [onlinegames].

So unless someone does constantly pull out this weird luck, I would not be so easy with picking situations. Especially when you are not on his team, how you you be sure that he was "instant" on target, you do not even know where he was aiming at.

@Tombstoner a cone of fire would partially help, but massively imbalance the game, because mechs don't have unified sizes, and depending on a mechs size and hitbox shape. The cone of fire would horribly re(im)balance the game.

Edited by Lily from animove, 11 May 2015 - 06:13 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Lily from animove, on 11 May 2015 - 06:11 AM, said:

700m too far to be seen? you would need to know the ENTIRE match from the summoners side, how do you know that somewhen in the match before he didn't see the raven there?

and how can it be 100% true if you are not 100% sure? do you rething what you type?
In etire yeas, havign 2 things like that. Its not an aimbot gurantee sight, its may just be luck, had a ton of luck situatins as well where some stuff went just lucky and just have looked like ultra pro ... or cheating.

I have died a lot of times when I have not even seen the guy around the corner shooting eve if I look at that corner, simply because [onlinegames].

So unless someone does constantly pull out this weird luck, I would not be so easy with picking situations. Especially when you are not on his team, how you you be sure that he was &quot;instant&quot; on target, you do not even know where he was aiming at.

I just described the situation. I seen the raven approach and stop completely unmoving the entire time even while he was being hit. It was like he was seeing if they were using bots or not. Really. Not making this up.

The attacker was locked on. And I would even go so far as to hazard a guess that he is banned.

The Ravens position was on the top of the ramp of the brown earth Invasion mode map near the gate everyone comes in all the time. Where the ramp leads to the plateau over looking Omega. He was in perfect cover from jump sniping or from the ground level. Attacker ran up the wall and used jump jets to get height enough to have a shot on him from the side in mid air traveling from right to left from ravens view. The Raven waited there maybe a minute could have been 30 seconds could have been a little longer than a minute. Most of the fighting was going on near the far side of the gun from omega as our team took cover behind the mountain firing where that happens alot.

I was up behind beta(I think thats the gates name) gen at the time. Was going to fire on enemy trying to come around back which eventually did happen.

Edited by Johnny Z, 11 May 2015 - 06:37 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Scout Derek, on 10 May 2015 - 05:18 AM, said:

You know what I think of this topic and the unfortunate event that happened?

One

Big

Steaming

Pile

Of

********

By unfortunate do you mean a cheat got caught ?

[Joseph Mallan]

Mister Blastman, on 09 May 2015 - 06:02 PM, said:

Anyone remember these?

Yes. If you are referring to the Salem Witch Trials.

Quote

The Salem witch trials occurred in colonial Massachusetts between 1692 and 1693. More than 200 people were accused of practicing witchcraft—the Devil's magic—and 20 were executed. Eventually, the colony admitted the trials were a mistake and compensated the families of those convicted.Oct 24, 2007

Not a lot really.

[Scout Derek]

Cathy, on 11 May 2015 - 06:45 AM, said:

By unfortunate do you mean a cheat got caught ?

Yep, Just a bit confused about it, since most of us know who it is, no names here, but first they accuse someone of cheating, then they get banned for cheating?

Makes me scratch my head at that, I just... I can't.