30 replies to this topic

[Sable]

Wow you can tell there are some die hard meta people in this thread with all the LRM hate. They trying to keep it down because they don't like to have to think about countering them.

I've been in drops with MS with some of the most stringent of meta "encouraging" people where the other team wouldn't play peek a boom with our team and we were just sitting at a stale mate for a while. And even the most meta person on the team stopped to say... it's weird but i kinda wish we had some LRMs right now. They have a purpose and if people are too tunnel visioned to see their purpose then there's not much you can do. I personally bring a few LRMs on most of my Timberwolf variants and i am able to pick up kills or rock an enemy enough my teammates have the advantage. You don't have to go full ****** with LRMs for them to serve a purpose.

My best super LRM boat is of course a Warhawk B because you can pack 5 medium lasers on there as well. But i found it was just too big of an investment in tonnage. I switched it out with a Maddog LRM boat and it ended up being one of my most effective mechs in CW and still is today. Knowing how to use it is key, the first wave always has ECM with it and working with a experience spotter helps tremendously. With ECM in mind you'll want to maneuver to the side of their forces if you can and then focus on picking off the stragglers in the back while your direct fire and brawler guys engage their main forces and the ECM mechs. I've had a lot of people try to peal off and take out the "LRM noob" only to die before they got anywhere close to me. Then you can work your way up the line until the first wave is gone.

Most of the self proclaimed "competitive" people whine about having to expose themselves for an LRMer to do damage and at the same time clog up the sight lines so no one else can fire beside them. It's almost a no brainer, if you can't shoot beside someone just shoot over them. HEY LRMs DO THAT FOR ME YAY!! Sure i can accept LRMs just aren't good in competitive matches as i've watched streams and recordings of them, they are too fast pace for LRMs to be much use. But CW isn't the same, it goes at a much different pace, sometimes fast and sometimes drawn out. There is a place for every weapon.

[G-LOC]

Sable, on 13 May 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Wow you can tell there are some die hard meta people in this thread with all the LRM hate. They trying to keep it down because they don't like to have to think about countering them.

I've been in drops with MS with some of the most stringent of meta "encouraging" people where the other team wouldn't play peek a boom with our team and we were just sitting at a stale mate for a while. And even the most meta person on the team stopped to say... it's weird but i kinda wish we had some LRMs right now. They have a purpose and if people are too tunnel visioned to see their purpose then there's not much you can do. I personally bring a few LRMs on most of my Timberwolf variants and i am able to pick up kills or rock an enemy enough my teammates have the advantage. You don't have to go full ****** with LRMs for them to serve a purpose.

My best super LRM boat is of course a Warhawk B because you can pack 5 medium lasers on there as well. But i found it was just too big of an investment in tonnage. I switched it out with a Maddog LRM boat and it ended up being one of my most effective mechs in CW and still is today. Knowing how to use it is key, the first wave always has ECM with it and working with a experience spotter helps tremendously. With ECM in mind you'll want to maneuver to the side of their forces if you can and then focus on picking off the stragglers in the back while your direct fire and brawler guys engage their main forces and the ECM mechs. I've had a lot of people try to peal off and take out the "LRM noob" only to die before they got anywhere close to me. Then you can work your way up the line until the first wave is gone.

Most of the self proclaimed "competitive" people whine about having to expose themselves for an LRMer to do damage and at the same time clog up the sight lines so no one else can fire beside them. It's almost a no brainer, if you can't shoot beside someone just shoot over them. HEY LRMs DO THAT FOR ME YAY!! Sure i can accept LRMs just aren't good in competitive matches as i've watched streams and recordings of them, they are too fast pace for LRMs to be much use. But CW isn't the same, it goes at a much different pace, sometimes fast and sometimes drawn out. There is a place for every weapon.

Perfectly said, my best CW performances are not direct fire meta but middle of the pack Maddog LRM boats, picking out the weak and disrupting the strong with chain fire, they are not dead weight but a viable asset to the team especially if the pilot can use their own TAG and counter ECM which benefits everyone. Even as a Brawler an LRM boat is viable, at 200meters I can still do 60 points of damage every 4.5 seconds plus some small lasers and targeting computer to really focus on the critically damaged areas.

[Moldur]

I saw a few greatly effective LRM boats on the IS side during the event. One game in particular, we were defending Boreal Vault, and an enemy Catapult with artemis and tag was raining both locked and dumbfired LRM 5 chains on any target of opportunity, essentially like a direct fire long range weapon.

Let me tell you, he carried a lot (a lot) of LRMs.

[Livewyr]

Allow me to explain something, Sable.

Before I begin though; Understand that I LOVE the concept of missiles. (In fact, my job in the military and on deployment was indirect fire- gimme mah long toms)

Now for the business:
LRMs suck in community warfare, let me count the ways in which they do.
1: The require lock to fire accurately.
1a: This means you have to facetank your opponent, or a team mate does. (Facetanking in Battle is bad, let alone comwarfare)
1b: ECM makes LRMs near impossible, especially in CW. The only counters to it are to have a BAP nearby (not likely in Comwarfare) or to TAG the target, again with the facetanking. Did I mention 2/4 Clan mechs coming this summer are ECM?
1c: Even if there is a friendly UAV up allowing you to lock through ECM, direct for could have fired 2-4 times in the time it took you to get lock, if you do.

2: They are slow, very slow compared to direct. (Especially lasers)
2a: Except within 250-300 meters, they are easily avoided...
2b: Even if you are hitting them, they have hit you twice for it, and they've hit you CT, because you're staring at them.

3: They are spread.
3a: This is like an LBX that has no choice to be miss some damage at every range. (Unless you're TAG'ing a broad target Atlas/Crab/Dire.)
3b: For the LBX you're shooting at them, they are shooting a PP alpha into you.


There are situations when LRMs do well.
1: Enemy caught in open.
2: Enemy doesn't have ECM or Radar Dep
3: Enemy isn't looking at you.

But those are about it.
Lasers work in all of those situations as well.


I love missiles. I love them, but as they are in MWO, they are dead weight in Community Warfare.. (They can jack up pugs, but then, so can everything else. If you run into a team that knows what it's doing... your missile boat might as well eject for something useful.)

Edited by Livewyr, 13 May 2015 - 12:46 PM.

[Felio]

Hack tools aimbotting LRM dumb-firing?

Edited by Felio, 13 May 2015 - 12:51 PM.

[LordNothing]

i want to say the higher lrm use during tukayyid was because of a higher percentage of pugs in the queue than usual.

[Monkey Lover]

Lrms are the worst weapons in the game right now. Be happy they're making it easy on you.

[PerfectDuck]

Repasy, on 10 May 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

People have become less dumb...

LRMs are great, but people didn't know how to use them properly, they just spam chain-fire (lol). The LRM resurgence is due to people starting to figure out how to use them effectively. I've been using lrm-boats for months. Since doing so, my k/d and w/l ratios have risen by 15%.

Man I swear, too many people limit themselves by obsessing over meta. Yea, direct-fire has been the status quo from the start of the year, and the few of us REAL lrm-boaters have been stomping that meta since early January. Sad that people are only waking up to this now, maybe Tukayyid would have played out differently if the IS wasn't so obsessed with ACs & Lasers and threw on a pair of lrm launchers once in a while.

Are you implying that a competitive team like Night's Scorn couldn't figure out how to use LRMs at all?

Suppose we knew everything you knew about how to use LRMs, and were in fact even better at it than you are, and even still we concluded that we can do more with direct fire. Or is that so implausible you must conclude we're just idiots who don't know how to LRM?

I'd like to take a moment and consider for a moment what 'meta' means. People have misused the word to think it is synonymous with 'best' when really it means using your past experiences and expectations to dictate your next move. If you were in a Magic tournament and you saw that every single player was using the same Fire deck to get to the top, and the next tournament around you planned and made a deck *specifically* to counter these fire decks, then you are metagaming; it means planning based on what you percieve happening and going beyond what you'd think about in a single round. You may find that everyone else had exactly the same thought as you, and suddenly the fire-counter deck, with its own merits becomes the popular choice people bring. This is a 'changing meta' and it could be said that your local Magic players have gone from a 'fire deck meta' to another. My point is, we don't take direct fire weaponry 'because it's the meta' ... we take it because we expect to win with it, since nothing can counter direct fire, it can only be equalled by direct fire. MWO has a 'stagnant meta'.

Edited by PerfectDuck, 13 May 2015 - 04:59 PM.

[Kyynele]

Sable, on 13 May 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Wow you can tell there are some die hard meta people in this thread with all the LRM hate. They trying to keep it down because they don't like to have to think about countering them.

I, for one, have no problem with my enemies bringing LRMs. Please do just as you please.

But for my own team, I hope I get as few LRMers as possible, because especially in CW, these players tend to the ones completely useless when pushing through bottlenecks, useless in most trades unless some UAV luckily doesn't get shot down right away, and they stay in the back, only participating in tanking AFTER the rest of their team is already dead, thus their armor only helps themselves. All this, while usually dealing something like 100-200 damage per mech on average. Which is pretty bad.

No offense intended. If you're not one of these players, I have no problem with you, no matter how much you use LRMs. Good for you to make a pretty underpowered weapons system work for you. But the fact is, that there are tons of these players. And they would likely learn to play the game better, and be more useful for their team, if they picked some other weapons and learned to participate in the fight more actively.

[PunisherMark]

I think having one LRM boat on your team is what is needed. But you have to know how to play it to be effective.

I have one (StormCrow D, 2-LRM15's, 1-med pulse, Targeting Comp 6, Active Probe, Advanced Sensors). I use it to help out the Assualts or Heavy Lance. Never go it alone.

Dropping missiles on the target as it approaches them and to help finish the target as it backs away.

[Willard Phule]

bad arcade kitty, on 12 May 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

heh, when the event forced me to play cw having only kit foxes at that time i had to begin to use lurms to get the required 80 score, tried multiple builds, lasers, ballistics, srms/streaks, but a deck of a trial mech and 3 kit foxes vs people who are generally more organized and experienced... it's either lrm or suffering

Really?

My deck is 2 Kit Foxes, 1 Hellbringer and 1 Timberwolf. But, then again, I keep as many people in my ECM umbrella as I can so I can suck up the bonuses. I normally got my 80 points by the second kit fox.