87 replies to this topic

[Mazzyplz]

allow me to walk around with a flamer and torch all the annoying foliage in viridian bog please

i'll make your FPS actually go UP this way

[EgoSlayer]

KiraOnime, on 11 May 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

DX9 is something that was released in the early 2000s.
There comes a point where you have to stop supporting 13 years old software.

I'd have to confirm this but I heard that some devs will be dropping DX9 with Dx12 comes out.

They have to drop DX9 to support DX12. The latest releases of the cryengine have dropped DX9 support. The questions are when is PGI going to update, and how much of the player base is going to be left when it's dropped.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 11 May 2015 - 07:57 PM.

[Anjian]

generalazure, on 11 May 2015 - 02:26 AM, said:

Who cares about the handful of polygons those things use? How many vertices does one of the cars on river city have anyways, does it even reach 50? And since they're all the exact same car, they just reuse the same VBO anyways... meaning each car after the first is just a 4x4 matrix (or at least could be, depending on how intelligent CryEngine is when handling copy&paste clutter).

It's the small stuff on the maps that keeps the sense of scale in this game from going completely down the drain and prevents the maps from looking like a last century game with HD textures slapped on. If anything, we need way more of those...

It isn't just the few number of polygons they use, its because the clutter --- poorly chosen --- may be using more than a *few* number of polygons and textures. The original Final Fantasy 14 MMO was plagued with bad decisions and among them was "exquisite" clutter that might be beautiful to examine closely but no one really gave a damn really. In the revamp, the clutter was either removed or severely reduced in polygons and textures to give better graphics performance.

[Troutmonkey]

Tell me why my System:
AMD 1090T (OC)
16GB RAM
MSI ATI 6970 OC

Can only run MWO at 20-35 FPS when it can run - Battlefield 3, Crysis 3, Farcry 3, and Tomb Raider at high without any issues?

It's because PGI can't program for **** and have made the game so heavily CPU bound that even replacing my ATI 6970 with a GeForce 970 gave me absolutely no performance improvement whatsoever.

Sure, lots of people are trying to play this game on toasters, but at the same time there's really no reason for a game like this to run so poorly on a lot of hardware, especially considering how so many other better looking games run so much better.

[RoboPatton]

I won't have a bad thing said about one of the features I wanted most!

[iliketurtles87]

find the mistake: The Game is heavily CPU bound that even replacing my videocard has not inproved my FPS.
@Troutmonkey: your CPU is 5 years old and extremly slow.It doesnt depend on the graphic Card. buy an old intel I5 (Sandybridge) and you will run this game on Ultra with 60 fps.

[Whatzituyah]

iliketurtles87, on 11 May 2015 - 10:43 PM, said:

find the mistake: The Game is heavily CPU bound that even replacing my videocard has not inproved my FPS.
@Troutmonkey: your CPU is 5 years old and extremly slow.It doesnt depend on the graphic Card. buy an old intel I5 (Sandybridge) and you will run this game on Ultra with 60 fps.

My computer has a Intel Core I5 why isn't mine running on ultra 60 fps?

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

I had issues with the game running poorly before I got a proper CPU cooler (my original was unseated and while I did have it on the CPU it wasn't effecient). Now that I have a CPU cooler on my CPU my FPS went from sub 20s on a low setting to a steady 60 on max setting.

Thankfully, instead of blaming PGI for everything I took a look at my system and realized a very small change had a ridiculous increase (my system was built around the time MWO first came out).

[Ghogiel]

EgoSlayer, on 10 May 2015 - 09:16 PM, said:

Dota 2 may very well be "prettier" but it's drawing less. Much less. The Triangle/polygon count of a mech in MWO is between 10-20,000 triangles. A Dota hero is hard capped by Valve to be no more than about 3500 for the most detailed hero.

That means the draw counts for 1 mech in MWO is between 3-6 times more work for the graphics subsystem than one Dota hero. And there are 12 Mechs in game per team. Equal to 72 to 144 heros in a Dota match. How many are there per match? Oh, right...

The biggest problem lies in Direct X limits, especially DX9. DX12 without any other changes would gain MWO between 25-100% more FPS on a modern system.

CE3 is very good at pushing lots of tri per frame.Tri count is not really what increases frame draw times in MWO, we can see this as tri drawing is done through the GPU and most are CPU bound until they get a decent i5 or better. it is just not a transform bound game imo,The mechs also have several LODs in the worst case scenario are within the CE optimisation guidlines for characters.

It's probably more so fill bound due to the mech shader being expensive...amoungst other things where the cpu is involved namily all the raycasting, HUD and processing of all that mechy info,

Anyway point is the game is fairly unoptimised and needs work in that area. We know this because Russ has talked abot optimisation several times and what the cost payoff relationship of that is. As well as that patch a few months back that actualy did optimise and made a quite a big difference in fps.

[Kristov Kerensky]

N0MAD, on 11 May 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

So tell me why in a game like WT, with HUGE detailed maps that have massive areas of well rendered and detailed trees/buildings in huge numbers, and i mean massive areas, destructible assets, vehicles colliding, lots of fire and smoke, massive amounts of NPCs tanks, AA vehicles, armored cars, naval units, arty and AA constantly firing, flak happening constantly, 32 human players travelling at 400km+, and a lot more i wont mention, i can get 100+ constant FPS on my system (at max graphics lvls) and yet get 40 to 60 FPS that is just never constant (at low graphics lvls)?.
BTW, my system is..
AMD 8350 , 8 core @ 4 ghz.
16 gig of good ram
SSD main drive.
Radeon R9 200 series.
Bad system that is only bad in MWO or is it MWO?.

It's both brother, it's both. MWO is very CPU bound and AMD CPU's aren't optimal with CryEngine 3 which compounds the problem.

And, as someone else already pointed out, a game using it's own custom built engine is much easier to optimize than using a game engine someone else built, which you also know, ya old bastiche. IF PGI makes the call to use the DX12 upgrade for the engine, it'll help SO much for everyone capable of running DX11 and 12, but that does mean no more DX9 at all. Blame CryTek for that one too, they did that with the engine upgrade to support 12, I know others that support 9 and 12 both, so this was purely a CryTek thing.

Seriously though, CryTek is not known for making an optimized engine, even their own games have the issues, they just LOOK better because they crank that eye candy to 11, after all, the Crysis games are just expensive tech demos of the CryEngine.

[Star Witch Esperanza]

yeah lets not kid ourselves on how well the game is optimized.

[Bloody]

I got a more than decent computer, if you want to play on your low spec machine just buy a ******* console, its way cheaper and you can play lots of games on that and leave us PC gods to our godliness.

[KuroNyra]

I like how people complain about the fact they would need to upgrade there computer.

Wake up people,, your 2005 laptop is already old generation.
You can't ask for the butter and the money of the butter.

The more year who pass, the more you will need to think about upgrading your material. It's been like that since the start.

[sycocys]

really how many frames can you drop by destroying 16 bit trees? didn't seem to bother my super nintendo to have trees fall down way back when.

[LordNothing]

if done right it shouldn't make fps drop at all.

oh wait this is pgi were talking about.

Edited by LordNothing, 13 May 2015 - 03:04 PM.

[Moldur]

MWO isn't a very beautiful game to begin with. With cranked up graphics it can look 'good.'

Most people's issue is for how decent MWO looks, a disproportional amount of processing power is used.

This is pretty much as good as MWO can look (sans youtube compression):


It's CryEngine 3, and it doesn't look bad, but it doesn't look awesome, nor does it run that great. Why do other games using the same engine somehow look the same or better at the cost of less processing power? Is PGI just bad at optimization?

Let's not forget about some of the awful textures, like our beloved pilot. I'm sure the first time you saw his hand and suit you said to yourself, "Wait a minute, really? Are you sure this isn't a joke?" he looks worse than the cgi gold at the end of the Hobbit movie.

Here's a different CryEngine 3 game


Here's Crysis (2007) on Cry Engine 1, running at decent fps on an 8800GT (2007)

Edited by Moldur, 13 May 2015 - 03:53 PM.

[Impyrium]

In case you haven't seen it yet, skip to around 25 minutes:



I don't care if that's a graphical options or hardcoded. Obviously they'll have to optimise stuff. But little things like that will add a lot to the game's immersion. MW:O has always felt very static and any amount of map interaction would be fantastic IMO.

[Lindonius]

FatYak, on 11 May 2015 - 12:50 AM, said:

No reason for MWO to be this crappy

Yes there is.....Incompetent developers.

N0MAD, on 11 May 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

So tell me why in a game like WT, with HUGE detailed maps that have massive areas of well rendered and detailed trees/buildings in huge numbers, and i mean massive areas, destructible assets, vehicles colliding, lots of fire and smoke, massive amounts of NPCs tanks, AA vehicles, armored cars, naval units, arty and AA constantly firing, flak happening constantly, 32 human players travelling at 400km+, and a lot more i wont mention, i can get 100+ constant FPS on my system (at max graphics lvls) and yet get 40 to 60 FPS that is just never constant (at low graphics lvls)?.
BTW, my system is..
AMD 8350 , 8 core @ 4 ghz.
16 gig of good ram
SSD main drive.
Radeon R9 200 series.
Bad system that is only bad in MWO or is it MWO?.

It's MWO.

Edited by Lindonius, 13 May 2015 - 06:47 PM.

[Mawai]

The only destructible terrain will likely be local eye candy ... lamp posts, cars, small trees that never interfere with line of sight or line of fire anyway. I don't really expect PGI to put in client coordinated destructible terrain where the terrain destroyed can have some significant effect on game play.

As for FPS, I expect there to be an option to turn it off completely since it doesn't affect gameplay so you should be able to minimize or eliminate any reduction in FPS.

[Kira Onime]

EgoSlayer, on 11 May 2015 - 07:56 PM, said:

They have to drop DX9 to support DX12. The latest releases of the cryengine have dropped DX9 support. The questions are when is PGI going to update, and how much of the player base is going to be left when it's dropped.

It's 2015. Time to get something that isn't 10 years old.