15 replies to this topic

[Peanuckle]

Has anybody managed to win counterattack as the attackers? Defenders have a major upperhand with only needing to score one objective, plus they get to sit back and wait while the attackers have to push into punishing fire.

I've never seen a successful counterattack. For those of you who pull it off, what goes into winning this mode?

[Kyynele]

Peanuckle, on 06 May 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

I've never seen a successful counterattack. For those of you who pull it off, what goes into winning this mode?

Doing the normal thing, like in Attack mode seems to work:

Kill 48 enemies, then destroy the generator(s).

[Clownwarlord]

Peanuckle, on 06 May 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

Has anybody managed to win counterattack as the attackers? Defenders have a major upperhand with only needing to score one objective, plus they get to sit back and wait while the attackers have to push into punishing fire.

I've never seen a successful counterattack. For those of you who pull it off, what goes into winning this mode?

Well this was an issue in the Tukayyid Battle for Inner Sphere, the simplest was push to drop sight and farm to win back the kill count. When you have the kill count in hand destroy the generator. Sadly I say again it is tough to do for Inner Sphere easier for Clanners because they have the better mechs to make a push in such a manner (the majority of the mechs used by clanners have better range than Inner Sphere, do more damage than Inner Sphere, and the Clan mechs go about the same speed so usually not waiting on a fatlas or such). Other options would be snipe war which also is easier for Clan mechs because of their range and damage lost over range is not as bad as Inner Sphere. So when you have a good snipe war going on and you are up in kill count then push in with some fresh mechs and destroy the generator. After that the clan mechs can return to snipe war picking the terrain outside of the gates.

Mind you this is all easier said than done and it is easier for clans to do than inner sphere.

[Lorian Sunrider]

Biggest problem during the event was on maps where the attacking teams drop spot was ridiculously defend-able. As soon as the attacking team got a kill lead they would retreat back to spawn and sit where it was nearly impossible to hit them without getting blown up instantly.

I was playing for Ghost Bear and I saw both sides do it.

[Revis Volek]

clownwarlord, on 06 May 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

Well this was an issue in the Tukayyid Battle for Inner Sphere, the simplest was push to drop sight and farm to win back the kill count. When you have the kill count in hand destroy the generator. Sadly I say again it is tough to do for Inner Sphere easier for Clanners because they have the better mechs to make a push in such a manner (the majority of the mechs used by clanners have better range than Inner Sphere, do more damage than Inner Sphere, and the Clan mechs go about the same speed so usually not waiting on a fatlas or such). Other options would be snipe war which also is easier for Clan mechs because of their range and damage lost over range is not as bad as Inner Sphere. So when you have a good snipe war going on and you are up in kill count then push in with some fresh mechs and destroy the generator. After that the clan mechs can return to snipe war picking the terrain outside of the gates.

Mind you this is all easier said than done and it is easier for clans to do than inner sphere.

NOthing you stated is anything tangible...

You guys have range, just as powerful mechs. BETTER weapons ( yes IS weapons are better then clan right now) and just as much of a chance as we do.

You are making statements that just dont hold up....take laser vomits TBRs and SCRs against 12 STK's and tell me who wins the range game, or the snipe game, or the poke game whatever you wanna call it.

The only thing clan have that you dont is our more surviabl XL engines which makes rushing a bit easier for us i will agree with you there.

But I cant out range many IS mechs these days with any builds aside from Gauss and ERPPC's which is SOOOOOO HOT! LL are everywhere on the IS and just about every mech you see in CW uses them. To say we have more range is wrong, im pretty sure they just fixed IS LL to do dmg past 1400 m or whatever the cap was previously.

Again, nothing you stated really shows me this is EASIER for a clan mech then a IS mech just by numbers. Coordination, teamwork and pilot skill are the difference once everyone is running meta.

[Monkey Lover]

DarthRevis, on 07 May 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

NOthing you stated is anything tangible...

You guys have range, just as powerful mechs. BETTER weapons ( yes IS weapons are better then clan right now) and just as much of a chance as we do.

You are making statements that just dont hold up....take laser vomits TBRs and SCRs against 12 STK's and tell me who wins the range game, or the snipe game, or the poke game whatever you wanna call it.

The only thing clan have that you dont is our more surviabl XL engines which makes rushing a bit easier for us i will agree with you there.

But I cant out range many IS mechs these days with any builds aside from Gauss and ERPPC's which is SOOOOOO HOT! LL are everywhere on the IS and just about every mech you see in CW uses them. To say we have more range is wrong, im pretty sure they just fixed IS LL to do dmg past 1400 m or whatever the cap was previously.

Again, nothing you stated really shows me this is EASIER for a clan mech then a IS mech just by numbers. Coordination, teamwork and pilot skill are the difference once everyone is running meta.

I find it funny the IS has 2 good mechs 1 being a assault to fight off a clan medium. The other heavy has to be crazy quirked to even compare.

The reason it's easier for clans to rush a drop zone is because the crow and timber roll damage and move a lot faster.

Over all when I'm in a 12 man we can fight you off without much trouble after few minutes but we rarely stop the rush unless we have 12 mechs with high assault level dps.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 09 May 2015 - 03:31 PM.

[Moldur]

It's very easy for attackers to win if defense isn't organized. IS needs a bunch of stalkers and other mechs with range quirks while attacking. Stalkers won't go down easily, and if they stay in a big deathball, they can all pop any defender stupid enough to peak. all those LL will deal a couple easy kills. Add that to all the normal kills once defenders push out the assault wave and the attackers will be positive. Depending on the map, Attackers can even snipe Omega on the first wave. If not, 2nd wave is to take out omega. If attackers are positive at that point, they can just sit.

That's but one of many viable tactics I've seen.

[Clownwarlord]

DarthRevis, on 07 May 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

NOthing you stated is anything tangible...

You guys have range, just as powerful mechs. BETTER weapons ( yes IS weapons are better then clan right now) and just as much of a chance as we do.

You are making statements that just dont hold up....take laser vomits TBRs and SCRs against 12 STK's and tell me who wins the range game, or the snipe game, or the poke game whatever you wanna call it.

The only thing clan have that you dont is our more surviabl XL engines which makes rushing a bit easier for us i will agree with you there.

But I cant out range many IS mechs these days with any builds aside from Gauss and ERPPC's which is SOOOOOO HOT! LL are everywhere on the IS and just about every mech you see in CW uses them. To say we have more range is wrong, im pretty sure they just fixed IS LL to do dmg past 1400 m or whatever the cap was previously.

Again, nothing you stated really shows me this is EASIER for a clan mech then a IS mech just by numbers. Coordination, teamwork and pilot skill are the difference once everyone is running meta.

Energy Weapons
InnerSphere Name Damage Heat Cooldown Range Max Range Slots Tons Speed Duration DPS DPH DPS/T HPS Impulse Health Costs ER LARGE LASER 9.00 8.00 3.25 675 1,350 2 5.0 - 1.25 2.00 1.13 0.40 1.78 - 10.00 400,000 ER PPC 10.00 15.00 4.00 810 1,620 3 7.0 1,050 - 2.50 0.67 0.36 3.75 0.030 10.00 600,000 FLAMER 0.70 1.00 - 90 90 1 1.0 100 ∞ 0.70 0.70 0.70 1.00 - 10.00 15,000 LARGE LASER 9.00 7.00 3.25 450 900 2 5.0 - 1.00 2.12 1.29 0.42 1.65 - 10.00 200,000 LRG PULSE LASER 11.00 7.00 3.25 365 730 2 7.0 - 0.67 2.81 1.57 0.40 1.79 - 10.00 350,000 MED PULSE LASER 6.00 4.00 3.00 220 440 1 2.0 - 0.60 1.67 1.50 0.83 1.11 - 10.00 120,000 MEDIUM LASER 5.00 4.00 3.00 270 540 1 1.0 - 0.90 1.28 1.25 1.28 1.03 - 10.00 80,000 PPC 10.00 10.00 4.00 90 - 540 1,080 3 7.0 950 - 2.50 1.00 0.36 2.50 0.030 10.00 400,000 SMALL LASER 3.00 2.00 2.25 135 270 1 0.5 - 0.75 1.00 1.50 2.00 0.67 - 10.00 22,500 SML PULSE LASER 4.00 2.00 2.25 110 220 1 1.0 - 0.50 1.45 2.00 1.45 0.73 - 10.00 32,000
Energy Weapons
Clan Name Damage Heat Cooldown Range Max Range Slots Tons Speed Duration DPS DPH DPS/T HPS Impulse Health Costs C-ER LRG LASER 11.00 10.00 3.25 740 1,480 1 4.0 - 1.50 2.32 1.10 0.58 2.11 - 10.00 400,000 C-ER MED LASER 7.00 6.00 3.00 405 810 1 1.0 - 1.15 1.69 1.17 1.69 1.45 - 10.00 160,000 C-ER PPC 15.00 15.00 4.00 810 1,620 2 6.0 1,050 - 3.75 1.00 0.63 3.75 0.030 10.00 600,000 C-ER SML LASER 5.00 3.00 2.25 200 400 1 0.5 - 1.00 1.54 1.67 3.08 0.92 - 10.00 22,500 C-FLAMER 0.70 1.00 - 90 90 1 0.5 100 ∞ 0.70 0.70 1.40 1.00 - 10.00 15,000 C-LRG PULSE LASER 13.00 10.00 3.25 600 1,200 2 6.0 - 1.12 2.97 1.30 0.50 2.29 - 10.00 350,000 C-MED PULSE LASER 8.00 6.00 3.00 330 660 1 2.0 - 0.85 2.08 1.33 1.04 1.56 - 10.00 120,000 C-SML PULSE LASER 6.00 3.00 2.25 165 330 1 1.0 - 0.75 2.00 2.00 2.00 1.00 - 10.00 32,000
Hmm interesting which weapon would you prefer to do full damage at range? Clan ER Medium Laser or Inner Sphere Medium Laser? Or maybe we should look at Clan Er Large vs Inner Sphere Er Large? ... If I really have to continue I can bring the other weapon systems into it. Or I could just let you go to smurfy: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment

[Gagis]

Peanuckle, on 06 May 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

I've never seen a successful counterattack. For those of you who pull it off, what goes into winning this mode?

Yes. We play it as the Skirmish mode it is. Ignore omega until you have 48 destroyed enemy mechs.

[Catra Lanis]

Gagis, on 09 May 2015 - 10:44 PM, said:

Yes. We play it as the Skirmish mode it is. Ignore omega until you have 48 destroyed enemy mechs.

Lots of people I played with didn't realize this. They went for Omega first. Sometimes they took it down but lost so many mechs that the other side then had an unsurmountable lead,

[Pat Kell]

The key to winning this is get on a team first. Running solo is a recipe for disaster. Next is to work on getting the team you are on to move as a unit (the tighter the better) and to focus fire. Once you get that down, you have to learn to be aggressive on the clan side and poke/shoot on the IS side as a team. For clans, I have seen many teams through away victory because they are too afraid to push into brawling range or they believe they have the range advantage. This is not the case. I know that clans have longer range weapons but due to quirks, there are several IS builds that will just outclass you in a long range duel. Get aggressive, push with the team and focus fire. You will find yourself winning more often than not with this approach. If you are a solo player than I have nothing for you...I drop solo from time to time and it's just incredibly frustrating as I know what needs done to win but even if I communicate this, at least half the team won't listen. Clans...stop thinking that your superior range gives you a benefit over the IS...outfit you mechs with brawly weapons such as SRM's, medium and small lasers and gauss (not brawly but great on heat) and then use your superior speed to get in close and the high end alphas to wreck mechs. KCom does this day in and day out, you can do it too.

[Vxheous]

Clownwarlord, you neglect to factor range/heat/cooldown quirks on many of the more popular IS mechs that bring IS weapons to both better dps/heat and better range/heat than clan weapons. Certain popular CW IS mechs have range quirks that make the IS ER large laser hit to 911m at full damage, which reaches further than clan ER large laser

[NanookoftheNorth]

Currently as it stands, IS mechs are inferior for long range exchanges than to clan mechs. They have a higher pinpoint alpha. At a consequence, they have terrible heat. Brawls are where IS mechs are better. Midrange fights it's arguable that IS mechs are more heat efficient, but clan mechs move faster.

Id say how the meta is rolling, it's arguable on what would be more valuable. right now I'd say heat efficiency.

Pat kell, despite with quirks having longer range at times, it's a rare instance to utilize it effectively. This does not, however, dismiss the higher pinpoint alpha available for clan mechs.

I'm not an expert, so please correct me if I'm wrong. This is just what I see in CW and metamechs.

[Pat Kell]

I typically don't use ERLL or ERPPC's as a clan as I find that if I try to utilize them at range, I get out sniped by IS mechs, particularly the stalker 5N. Plus once the engagement gets in close, I lose the small advantage I have at range, if there is an advantage. I tend to do a lot better when I am in close brawling because for the most part, clans have higher alphas. So with their speed advantage, I am able to run in, alpha 1-2 times and run up a high heat spike, then run out again. IS mechs have a better heat efficiency but with the lower alphas, they have to stay in the mix longer to get the same damage. It's a give and take. I know that when we fight a mixed group, our mechs seem very OP but when we fight an organized unit, it takes everything we have to be able to pull off a victory so my feeling is that things are fairly balanced right now and with very minor tweaks, I think things should be in order. We have played both sides and for me, it seemed like the same old story, against pugs, we ran them over, against a team, we had to fight like crazy....same same.

[Clownwarlord]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 10 May 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

Clownwarlord, you neglect to factor range/heat/cooldown quirks on many of the more popular IS mechs that bring IS weapons to both better dps/heat and better range/heat than clan weapons. Certain popular CW IS mechs have range quirks that make the IS ER large laser hit to 911m at full damage, which reaches further than clan ER large laser

For only a hand full ... not even a hand full of mechs do the quirks work out well for IS. Oh well clan e-tears have been collected enough to fill the buckets at PGI to roll back the 250 tonnage to now 240.

Edited by clownwarlord, 11 May 2015 - 10:19 PM.

[Vxheous]

clownwarlord, on 11 May 2015 - 10:14 PM, said:

For only a hand full ... not even a hand full of mechs do the quirks work out well for IS. Oh well clan e-tears have been collected enough to fill the buckets at PGI to roll back the 250 tonnage to now 240.

Just like a handful, not even a handful of clan mechs work well for clan. In case you are wondering, i have a mastered stalker 4N, 2 mastered thunderbolt 5SS's, a mastered firestarter S and A, a mastered Raven 2x and 3L, and working on a wolverine 6K right now to make the 240T deck. My IS mechs are far easier to play simply due to the fact that heat management is an afterthought.