47 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 11 May 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Too many buckets not enough fish

A lot of fish left when there was only one bucket that they didn't like the size and shape of.

[Mar-X-maN]

making weapon quirks specialized to certain weapons instead of generalized by hardpoint weapon class:
i.e. if a Mech has ballistic hardpoints it should get bonuses on ballistic weapons instead of an AC20

[STEF_]

Imo, the big mistake is been releasing MWO as "minimum viable product".

[Gideon Grey]

I agree.

Much too late to fix now of course, but I always thought it would have been great if they introduced CW and had things balanced for IS only... Then followed a plan like this:

Pick a random population of interested players to get early access to Clan mechs. Introduce Clan mechs at near full Clan OP glory (wait for it, don't kill me). Use devs and these players to introduce limited IS vs Clan CW battles in which the IS is well and truly stomped. Use it as a series of events to introduce the Clans. Slowly allow more people to play clans, but introduce asymmetric rewards. Much greater rewards for victories or partial victories for IS to compensate for imbalance. Also institute 12 v 10 or something similar.

Next, after some limited period of time... Begin allowing limited salvage of clan tech for IS and allow some Clan upgrades with attendant reduction in asymmetric rewards... Gradually allow full clan tech integration or a time jump to a time when IS tech is more on par with clans... Finally achieving different but equal.

It would be tricky to make it balanced enough that not everyone went Clan immediately, but We really were robbed of some great potential fun.

[Devilsfury]

Tor6, on 11 May 2015 - 05:05 PM, said:

A lack of concrete artistic vision that lead to over-promising and under-delivering, combined with poor community relations that squandered TONS of community goodwill.

Exactly! Like promising Founders that CW was going to be awesome and how it would be ready at game release. ROFL! Two years later, we get a thrown together shell of CW that is still team death match with the exact same game mechanics we have always had. /yawn

[Bishop Steiner]

Darian DelFord, on 11 May 2015 - 04:38 PM, said:

I am just curious to know if others share my sentiment. I personally feel that the release of Clan Mechs was the biggest mistake IGPGI ever did.

Had they stuck with the IS then come out with CW then release the Clans in a sequel after most of the bugs were worked out I think MWO would be in a much better place.

Once again I am just curious if others share this.

I would say their biggest mistake began in early Closed Beta. (Though one could debate using CryEngine or IGP, but there likely would be no MWO title at all, without those 2 unfortunate circumstances. And park the MW:LL crap at the door, even at it's peak you barely had any population. There was much to admire, but it wasn't saving MechWarrior.)

Nope. SImple balance. When the first 4-8 mechs were out, and all basic Tier 1, Succession War level technology was out, they made the first mistake, and the one that has plagued the game and attempts to balance, since. They didn't actually take the time to balance the existing base Tier of Tech first, then lock it in stone. In their rush, they started to release "Upgraded" Tech Tiers, but with no solid baseline to work from.

While hardpoints and hitboxes would always take massaging, basic Tier 1 tech was relatively well balanced, in TT, and when Hit Reg worked, in MW:O. And we had plenty of time to figure it out, and lock it in stone. And then you can SideGrade tech around it, all day long. Superior in one aspect, but at a cost of something else.

And when the code is borked, instead of Paultastic kneejerk buffs and nerfs, you either put a temp placeholder fix on the weapon (like SRM and LRMaggedon) to be repealed back to established base when the issue is fixed, or you ride it out, as we have done, often times.

But, because even the most basic Tech Levels are in constant flux, how can one remotely hope to balance new and "improved" tech?

Had they spent CB, getting Tier 1 as good as possible, locked it, then tested Tier 2 Star League tech, to be released with Open Beta, we might see a very different game. Then the obvious focus should have been Maps and CW, while having a team in the background working on the Clans, instead of Transverse. Release CW Beta at 3048 Tech level, and when you are ready for the Clans to be integrated, make it part of the official CW/Clan Invasion Launch.

But that's just my 2 ct.

But without a rock solid baseline, there can never be real balance in the game.

[Almond Brown]

Bilbo, on 11 May 2015 - 05:10 PM, said:

That's a balance/game design issue. Both of which can be rectified in time. You can't repeatedly promise things, not deliver, and expect not to suffer for it.

The only "promise" PGI ever made, that did not have an associate caveat attached, was that some Community Members would end up on an "Island".

That certainly came true in spades...

[Burktross]

I believe it was a mistake at the time, but a very small mistake. Personally I prefer 3025/3039 tech, but that's just me.

[Bilbo]

Almond Brown, on 12 May 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

The only "promise" PGI ever made, that did not have an associate caveat attached, was that some Community Members would end up on an "Island".

That certainly came true in spades...

You need to go back to my previous comment where I talked about giving dates and or date ranges for features, which they missed repeatedly.

[Almond Brown]

Mercules, on 12 May 2015 - 05:16 AM, said:

A lot of fish left when there was only one bucket that they didn't like the size and shape of.

"Can't please "everyone!" Trying too is a wasted effort. Hell, "everyone" knows that. LOL

[nehebkau]

Yes, it was a mistake... The whole concept of introducing a purposefully more powerful player-usable faction into the game was insane -- doing so without proper pre release balancing (12 vs 10 etc) was batpoo-crazy. Trying to re-balance by adding powers using a thumb as your metric -- well -- you can figure it out.

[Ratpoison]

Darian DelFord, on 11 May 2015 - 04:38 PM, said:

I am just curious to know if others share my sentiment. I personally feel that the release of Clan Mechs was the biggest mistake IGPGI ever did.

Had they stuck with the IS then come out with CW then release the Clans in a sequel after most of the bugs were worked out I think MWO would be in a much better place.

Once again I am just curious if others share this.

What the hell would the purpose be of making a sequel to a game that's already continuously developing just to add clans? Separating the playerbase with a pointless paywall? Making all the money and experience you put into the previous iteration disappear arbitrarily? Don't be stupid.

Edited by tortuousGoddess, 12 May 2015 - 11:12 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

I think that instant convergence is the biggest mistake PGI ever made

The clans pales into insignificance

The clans should have been the boogie man, and have limited but very powerful versions of them, not released to the likes of you and me, or have been a PvE element.

Though of course that was never going to happen as everyone wanted clans because they're so overwhelmingly more powerful than IS mechs, so they could win all the time, the amount of crying over you gimped, the clans so bad, on their entry into the game, when common sense said they had to be balanced, was incredible, oh there were people that wanted clan and could accept it and support PGI's choices, but they were a minority.

But the game would have been so much better balanced and more fun had PGI never made them

Edited by Cathy, 12 May 2015 - 11:15 AM.

[Foxwalker]

I am pretty sure the Citizens of the Inner Sphere in 3050 wish that the Clan Invasion never happened.
But it did...

[process]

Balance, balance, balance. Also continues to be their biggest mistake.

IS mechs and tech aren't balanced internally, so why would they expect IS vs Clan to be? A few overquirked IS mechs versus Clan laservomit doesn't count as balance.

Edited by process, 12 May 2015 - 11:23 AM.

[Lugh]

Devilsfury, on 12 May 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

Exactly! Like promising Founders that CW was going to be awesome and how it would be ready at game release. ROFL! Two years later, we get a thrown together shell of CW that is still team death match with the exact same game mechanics we have always had. /yawn

*ahem* Three years later. The promises began in 2012 in closed beta.

[vivoune]

Yes 3 years late, and "at the end of the day, all Community Warfare seems to be is two maps, some weak stat tracking, and a broken lobby system. It isn't much to write home about.

At what point does over-promising turn into dishonesty? When do pleas for patience and understanding veer into stalling tactics to milk a gullible audience?" asks the gaming press.

[Sir Wulfrick]

Tor6, on 11 May 2015 - 05:05 PM, said:

A lack of concrete artistic vision that lead to over-promising and under-delivering, combined with poor community relations that squandered TONS of community goodwill.

This, sadly, is very true. I genuinely don't know how much at fault the old publishers were for this, but until very recently PGI have treated the good will of the community, "hard-core" Battletech fans in particular, like an alcoholic who's just obtained an unlimited overdraft on their bank account. Squandered is a very good description. As one of those die-hard BT fans I feel that in many ways the wave after wave of mech packs and continual release of shiny ephemeral nonsense while actual concrete content such as maps and modes has trickled out at a pace that's best described as geological; has treated the community good will as a credit card. Merely as an observation, and to stretch the analogy somewhat, credit cards have limits.

Yes, things have improved recently and I'll cautiously say that with the increasing tempo of map releases and bug fixes that things are going in a better direction, but the reality remains that after 3 years of development we have variations on a theme of squad deathmatch and nothing more. The lack of vision and ambition inherent in that is staggering and on reflection often leaves me feeling more than a little bitter.

Still hoping things will improve. As the zen master said: we'll see...

[Mercules]

Almond Brown, on 12 May 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

"Can't please "everyone!" Trying too is a wasted effort. Hell, "everyone" knows that. LOL

Obviously not, but say we have 10 "categories" of players and around 100 players that fall into each category. If they create ten buckets they would probably lose people because they would be spread too thin to have games running well all the time. If they create 1 bucket they will lose anyone who doesn't enjoy that bucket. If they created 3 buckets they would likely retrain a large number of the players as long as those three buckets represented a wide enough spread of the original 10 that many players could say, "Close enough".

3025 Stock Mechs is a bucket that would have retained a lot of people that I personally know.

They could have also done an IS CW pre-Clan invasion and then a CW IS vrs Clan and even the Warden/Crusader Clan CW others mentioned.

[CDLord HHGD]

3PV was their biggest. Not the implementation of it which was forced by IGP, but the broken promise to many and the lack of follow up discussion and explanation. It was one of the first bad apples, IMO, that they are still recovering from (and recovering they are).