587 replies to this topic

[Armando]

Coordinator Aigis Kurita, on 13 May 2015 - 08:12 AM, said:

Try reading my previous posts in this thread regarding why there is almost certainly no anti-cheat. Here's the very oversimplified version: among other things, it is very unlikely that PGI, with a very small team, managed to implement an anti-cheat for a game running on CryEngine, which is notoriously vulnerable when CryTek, a company employing 700 people, cannot implement one for its OWN GAMES.

If this is not enough for you, then go read those previous posts in the thread I mentioned. It's very easy to find them.

"1- For the analogy, the criminal is on the most wanted list (this means they have committed some seriously bad crimes)."

The analogy is flawed from the start, because they have no way of knowing a "crime" was even committed, so how could they have compiled a list of "criminals"?



They were never in NKVA, sorry. Next.



If this was even a possible hack, I would say that PGI keeps records of MC transactions (https://mwomercs.com/profile/credits), so it could be compared against payment transactions to catch them, except anyone sophisticated enough to do this could easily cover their tracks to avoid getting caught.



If this is what you think "innocent until proven guilty" and "jury of peers" means...

e: ok, here's the elementary school version, so more than 5% of the posters in this thread can understand what I'm saying:

Developing an anti-cheat for anything is hard.
Developing an anti-cheat for a CryEngine game is even harder.
CryTek, a medium size company, can afford to hire people who received an actual education in computer science.
The same company, which makes CryEngine, cannot do it.
PGI is a much, much smaller company.
Therefore, it is very unlikely that there is any anti-cheat at all.

Never in eh....seem pretty 'in' from here. Doesn't matter cheaters gonna cheat and I could give two [redacted] if PGI has proof, let alone provides it. They made the game, they maintain the game, and they continue development of the game....they want to ban someone they don't have to ask my permission.

In the unit or not, I will be upset if PGI doesn't take a long, hard look at each and every player calling for / demanding detailed and explicit information about the protocols, policies, practices, and or methods PGI uses to detect cheating, then KEEP an eye on them all for some time to come.

PGI has made it clear they are not only responding to reports of / watching for cheaters, but are also willing to take steps to eliminate problems when identified. This is great news for all those who are not cheaters, and for those who are I hope you suckers didn't spend any real world dollars on this game, and start PRAYING they don't wait until after the next content drop before they drop then ban hammer on ya.

Ahhh, who am I kidding...I hope PGI shakes down all the cheaters for every penny they got before they drop the ban hammer on their punk @$$es. Take their junk, give em the boot, make sure they don't come back PGI.

Edited by Armando, 13 May 2015 - 11:22 AM.

[Harvey Batchall Kerensky at Law]

Armando, on 13 May 2015 - 11:19 AM, said:

Never in eh....seem pretty 'in' from here. Doesn't matter cheaters gonna cheat and I could give two [redacted] if PGI has proof, let alone provides it. They made the game, they maintain the game, and they continue development of the game....they want to ban someone they don't have to ask my permission.

In the unit or not, I will be upset if PGI doesn't take a long, hard look at each and every player calling for / demanding detailed and explicit information about the protocols, policies, practices, and or methods PGI uses to detect cheating, then KEEP an eye on them all for some time to come.

PGI has made it clear that are not only responding to reports of / watching for cheaters, but are also willing to take steps to eliminate problems when identified. This is great news for all those who are not cheaters, and for those who are I hope you suckers didn't spend any real world dollars on this game, and start PRAYING they don't wait until after the next content drop before they drop then ban hammer on ya.

Ahhh, who am I kidding...I hope PGI shakes down all the cheaters for every penny they got before they drop the ban hammer on their punk @$$es. Take their junk, give em the boot, make sure they don't come back PGI.

Lol, "Anyone who questions the methodology of banning players should be put on a watchlist, and if they don't I will be upset"

Also, PGI used to ban people from their game for saying negative stuff about them in completely different forums, lest we forget. It's totally good for the tiny, incestual community and longevity of MWO to have a completely opaque and capricious banning system in place.

Edited by MadWOPR, 13 May 2015 - 11:27 AM.

[Tannhauser Gate]

Time for this thread to be closed I think.

All the good info and constructive feedback have been heard (and repeated) and now the trolls are just cranking the hate machine to start arguments.

[stratagos]

Armando, on 13 May 2015 - 11:19 AM, said:

PGI has made it clear they are not only responding to reports of / watching for cheaters, but are also willing to take steps to eliminate problems when identified. This is great news for all those who are not cheaters, and for those who are I hope you suckers didn't spend any real world dollars on this game, and start PRAYING they don't wait until after the next content drop before they drop then ban hammer on ya.

Ahhh, who am I kidding...I hope PGI shakes down all the cheaters for every penny they got before they drop the ban hammer on their punk @$$es. Take their junk, give em the boot, make sure they don't come back PGI.

Don't forget this is a game of perceptions.

They need to wait the day *before* a content drop, and simultaneously refund any preorder at the same time they lower the ban hammer.

[Coordinator Toxic Kerensky]

Armando, on 13 May 2015 - 11:19 AM, said:

Never in eh....seem pretty 'in' from here. Doesn't matter cheaters gonna cheat and I could give two [redacted] if PGI has proof, let alone provides it. They made the game, they maintain the game, and they continue development of the game....they want to ban someone they don't have to ask my permission.

In the unit or not, I will be upset if PGI doesn't take a long, hard look at each and every player calling for / demanding detailed and explicit information about the protocols, policies, practices, and or methods PGI uses to detect cheating, then KEEP an eye on them all for some time to come.

PGI has made it clear they are not only responding to reports of / watching for cheaters, but are also willing to take steps to eliminate problems when identified. This is great news for all those who are not cheaters, and for those who are I hope you suckers didn't spend any real world dollars on this game, and start PRAYING they don't wait until after the next content drop before they drop then ban hammer on ya.

Ahhh, who am I kidding...I hope PGI shakes down all the cheaters for every penny they got before they drop the ban hammer on their punk @$$es. Take their junk, give em the boot, make sure they don't come back PGI.

Agreed. People who try to hold the authorities to account are actually trying to undermine them and are really just troublemakers. Non-vaguely worded laws, open courts, and documented procedures lead to the insane scenario of criminals being too good at crime.

Edited by Coordinator Aigis Kurita, 13 May 2015 - 12:17 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

stratagos, on 13 May 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

Don't forget this is a game of perceptions.

And here I thought it was a game of battlemechs. No wonder I can't top the leaderboards! Dang!

[Egomane]

Coordinator Aigis Kurita, on 13 May 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

Agreed. People who try to hold the authorities to account are actually trying to undermine them and are really just troublemakers. Non-vaguely worded laws, open courts, and documented procedures lead to the insane scenario of criminals being too good at crime.

Please read the terms of use again. Here, I quote the important part for you:
1. Termination by Us. We may, in our sole discretion, suspend, restrict or terminate your use of the PGI Offerings, your Content or your Account, effective at any time, without notice to you, for any reason, including if the operation or efficiency of the PGI Offerings or our or any third party’s equipment or network is impaired by your use of the PGI Offerings, we have received a third party complaint which relates to your use or misuse of the PGI Offerings, or you have been or are in breach of any term or condition of this Agreement.

You agreed to that! If you didn't like this when you installed MWO for the first time and created your account, why are you here now? You have been informed about this, now stop complaining and comparing with things that do not apply here.

This is PGIs game. We are only allowed to play it as long as they don't pull the plug. For us as a whole or for single individuals. It's their private realm and they have absolute rule over it. They are the police, the judges and the executioner. A fact, I repeat, you accepted when you signed up for it.

Your comparisons to other law regulation systems have no place here.

[ScrapIron Prime]

That clause actually exists to allow PGI to go out of business without paying off all their customers, which if PGI was going belly up due to a lack of money would be reasonable.

[Harvey Batchall Kerensky at Law]

Egomane, on 13 May 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

Please read the terms of use again. Here, I quote the important part for you:
1. Termination by Us. We may, in our sole discretion, suspend, restrict or terminate your use of the PGI Offerings, your Content or your Account, effective at any time, without notice to you, for any reason, including if the operation or efficiency of the PGI Offerings or our or any third party’s equipment or network is impaired by your use of the PGI Offerings, we have received a third party complaint which relates to your use or misuse of the PGI Offerings, or you have been or are in breach of any term or condition of this Agreement.

You agreed to that! If you didn't like this when you installed MWO for the first time and created your account, why are you here now? You have been informed about this, now stop complaining and comparing with things that do not apply here.

This is PGIs game. We are only allowed to play it as long as they don't pull the plug. For us as a whole or for single individuals. It's their private realm and they have absolute rule over it. They are the police, the judges and the executioner. A fact, I repeat, you accepted when you signed up for it.

Your comparisons to other law regulation systems have no place here.

Yes, because an agreement has a clause that lets an authority ban people at any time for no reason, means that those capricious decisions are good and the company that makes them is good, and no words shall be raised to question their blessed judgement or imply that the company can make bad decisions based on jibbering redditors

In Niko's name,

Amen

Edited by MadWOPR, 13 May 2015 - 12:48 PM.

[Whatzituyah]

Ron Ron, on 13 May 2015 - 04:22 AM, said:

Wow, reported for hurtful personal insults. Hopefully you study up on proper manner-gaming while enjoying your time off.

Now I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer but he didn't say anything personal to anyone just a whole faction and a whole real world clan is that personal? Personal would be http://www.merriam-w...ionary/personal I can see this as an insult to the leader of said clan are you the leader? As for the faction its not your faction the person who owns the faction doesn't exist. Though I can see it as a nonconstructive post.

As for the thread I like the thread its exciting my personal opinion is if PGI has valid reason to ban someone they should infact they should update their EULA or what ever you call it to support it make us agree on it again before we can start playing the game.

Egomane, on 13 May 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

Please read the terms of use again. Here, I quote the important part for you:
1. Termination by Us. We may, in our sole discretion, suspend, restrict or terminate your use of the PGI Offerings, your Content or your Account, effective at any time, without notice to you, for any reason, including if the operation or efficiency of the PGI Offerings or our or any third party’s equipment or network is impaired by your use of the PGI Offerings, we have received a third party complaint which relates to your use or misuse of the PGI Offerings, or you have been or are in breach of any term or condition of this Agreement.

You agreed to that! If you didn't like this when you installed MWO for the first time and created your account, why are you here now? You have been informed about this, now stop complaining and comparing with things that do not apply here.

This is PGIs game. We are only allowed to play it as long as they don't pull the plug. For us as a whole or for single individuals. It's their private realm and they have absolute rule over it. They are the police, the judges and the executioner. A fact, I repeat, you accepted when you signed up for it.

Your comparisons to other law regulation systems have no place here.

Scratch that Egomane said its already there sorry but I still like this thread basically what it says if they have any reason to ban you they will without explanation of said ban. But Egomane most people don't read the Terms of Use when they install something its a very long read and most people just want to get to the game I am guilty of it aswell.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 13 May 2015 - 12:59 PM.

[Egomane]

MadWOPR, on 13 May 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

Yes, because an agreement has a clause that lets an authority ban people at any time for no reason, means that those capricious decisions are good and the company that makes them is good, and no words shall be raised to question their blessed judgement or imply that the company can make bad decisions based on jibbering redditors

In Niko's name,

Amen

You agreed to that agreement or you wouldn't be here. It is, by the way, a standard agreement you can find in almost any online multiplayer game terms of use. So yeah... keep bashing PGI. Not their fault that you didn't read the contract you agreed to though.

Edit: I am pretty sure that Niko had nothing to do with the creation of the Terms of Use. This is something for the management and some lawyers to work out. Not for some small community guy. But... blame game... I get it. You like it!

Edited by Egomane, 13 May 2015 - 12:58 PM.

[Harvey Batchall Kerensky at Law]

Egomane, on 13 May 2015 - 12:56 PM, said:

You agreed to that agreement or you wouldn't be here. It is, by the way, a standard agreement you can find in almost any online multiplayer game terms of use. So yeah... keep bashing PGI. Not their fault that you didn't read the contract you agreed to though.

Yes, because an agreement has a clause that lets an authority ban people at any time for no reason, means that those capricious decisions are good and the company that makes them is good, and no words shall be raised to question their blessed judgement or imply that the company can make bad decisions based on jibbering redditors

In Niko's name,

Amen

[Egomane]

MadWOPR, on 13 May 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

Yes, because an agreement has a clause that lets an authority ban people at any time for no reason, means that those capricious decisions are good and the company that makes them is good, and no words shall be raised to question their blessed judgement or imply that the company can make bad decisions based on jibbering redditors

In Niko's name,

Amen

Ok... then please go to EA and Blizzard and Ubisoft and all the other companies that have exactly the same content in their terms of use. Complain to them and make them change it. Come back if you had any success with them.

[Harvey Batchall Kerensky at Law]

Egomane, on 13 May 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

Ok... then please go to EA and Blizzard and Ubisoft and all the other companies that have exactly the same content in their terms of use. Complain to them and make them change it. Come back if you had any success with them.

Friendo, you do seem to be missing the point that just because it's technically and legally ok to ban someone according to the EULA, doesn't make any criticism of a game company's decision irrelevant or bad

Especially since the development staff of this game seems to be very easy to influence via peer pressure

For example, the recent banning of a user due to pixel examination by a lynch mob of angry frustrated redditors

Edited by MadWOPR, 13 May 2015 - 01:05 PM.

[Whatzituyah]

Egomane, on 13 May 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

Ok... then please go to EA and Blizzard and Ubisoft and all the other companies that have exactly the same content in their terms of use. Complain to them and make them change it. Come back if you had any success with them.

Well I am sure more companies then that have the same terms of use Egomane what about Square Enix with there Final Fantasy 11 and 14 both Major Multiplayer Online games? I am sure there are more but I don't know them.

MadWOPR, on 13 May 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

Friendo, you do seem to be missing the point that just because it's technically and legally ok to ban someone according to the EULA, doesn't make any criticism of a game company's decision irrelevant or bad

Especially since the development staff of this game seems to be very easy to influence via peer pressure

For example, the recent banning of a user due to pixel examination by a lynch mob of angry frustrated redditors

EULA is like a contract you sign it and agree on it but if you think its unfair you go to court otherwise anything on the contract you agree on you have to follow if you know what I mean.

[Egomane]

Whatzituyah, on 13 May 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

Well I am sure more companies then that have the same terms of use Egomane what about Square Enix with there Final Fantasy 11 and 14 both Major Multiplayer Online games? I am sure there are more but I don't know them.

They have the same.
Termination by SQUARE ENIX
SQUARE ENIX reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to reject, refuse to post or remove any posting (including email) by you, or to restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to all or any part of the Website or Services at any time, or to terminate your registration for any or no reason Without Prejudice to your statutory rights as a consumer.

Like I said: All the others. It's everywhere!

Whatzituyah, on 13 May 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

EULA is like a contract you sign it and agree on it but if you think its unfair you go to court otherwise anything on the contract you agree on you have to follow if you know what I mean.

Exactly. You can go to court over it. This here, is no court. And the likelyhood of a successful verdict against PGI for this part of the ToU is very slim.

Edited by Egomane, 13 May 2015 - 01:17 PM.

[Elizander]

Just came back to check.

Yup, people still mad.

Need more popcorn.

[DAEDALOS513]

Egomane, on 13 May 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

Ok... then please go to EA and Blizzard and Ubisoft and all the other companies that have exactly the same content in their terms of use. Complain to them and make them change it. Come back if you had any success with them.

All it takes is one user to start a strong campaign. Get enough users behind you and you WILL get a companies attention.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 13 May 2015 - 01:39 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

DAEDALOS513, on 13 May 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

All it takes is one user to start a strong campaign. Get enough users behind you and you WILL get a companies attention.

Ive looked this up and there have never been a class action thats been held up by the eula of a game.

[DAEDALOS513]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 13 May 2015 - 01:38 PM, said:

Ive looked this up and there have never been a class action thats been held up by the eula of a game.

Money is king. You threaten a companies cash flow and you WILL get their attention. Going to court is not necessary to change a companies behaviour.