52 replies to this topic

[OP8]

Worst cockpit design ever. I'm a founder, a phoenix+ reinforcements, masakari pack player with over 50 master mechs, 17 spare bays, and every module and upgrade I could want at this time.
I've got mix builds and boats of every classification and specialty and play all styles from scout to LRM barge to ECM support to quad LBX brawlers to ERPPC sniper tanks.
Then there's that effing locust that does 169.3kph but has this totally ******** brush guard that makes it like driving a missile while looking through a god damned key hole. It's so hard to see anything and track targets through that stupid little slot of window glass, that I honestly regret that I had to spend money on that thing to get the other mechs.

There are awesome things about this game and there are things that need work. Been a mech pilot since MW2. I've got a lot to say about all the mech games, I'm an addict. But holy shart if you're gonna charge money for mechs with paper thin armor and no major perks over the other mechs, don't give 'em ultra handicaps like cockpits you can't see crap out of. If I owned that mech in real life, first thing I'd do is fire the ****** who put those prison bars on to create huge blindspots. Christ, please fix that thing already so I don't have to think of it as that garbage I'm annoyed to pilot.


I'll save my other grievances or praise for separate posts.

[N0ni]

"I'm a special snowflake. This mech design is bad. I'm only bringing up how bad it is during a Phoenix specific event. I payed for this 'bad' mech so i'm entitled to have things my way."

Did i read it right? Ok then.

Deal with it.

[Alistair Winter]

Here's the cockpit of a scout mech in MWO, sacrificing firepower and armour for the speed and small size needed to travel the battlefield unnoticed, spotting enemies and reporting back to the team.

Spoiler

Here's the cockpit of one of the slowest, most heavily armed mech in the whole game.

Spoiler

wow

much role warfare

very logic

such consistent

Edited by Alistair Winter, 16 May 2015 - 01:22 PM.

[LordNothing]

there are a lot of mechs with what i would call bad cockpits (atlas, shadowhawk, etc). locust could use a few small adjustments to the camera position, like move it forward a few inches, but i wouldn't call it broke. i fake it by leaning back in my chair and re centering my trackir, works every time.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 May 2015 - 03:27 AM.

[El Bandito]

Alistair Winter, on 16 May 2015 - 03:22 AM, said:

Here's the cockpit of a scout mech in MWO, sacrificing firepower and armour for the speed and small size needed to travel the battlefield unnoticed, spotting enemies and reporting back to the team.

Here's the cockpit of the slowest, most heavily armed mech in the whole game. The walking battleship that is supposed to rely on light mechs for scouting.

wow

much role warfare

very logic

such consistent

If Locust cockpit is resized to giving as much vision as DW cockpit, that Locust is gonna die from cockpit hits a lot.

Edited by El Bandito, 16 May 2015 - 03:27 AM.

[Deathlike]

This was complained a long time ago when the pack debuted.

The fact that it come up again AND "countered" by the other side as "demands" seems to be normal.

Working as intended™ since apparently aesthetics vs functionality is a commonplace feature in every debate that ever goes on here (including scaling and VCR boxes).

[Alistair Winter]

El Bandito, on 16 May 2015 - 03:27 AM, said:

If Locust cockpit is resized to giving as much vision as DW cockpit, that Locust is gonna die from cockpit hits a lot.

Size is completely irrelevant. The issue is the number of bars obstructing your view.

Furthermore, look at the size of the cockpit glass on a Cataphract or Catapult, and then compare that to the actual size of the cockpit hitbox. 90% of the cockpit glass on a Cataphract is actually the CT hitbox.

[El Bandito]

Alistair Winter, on 16 May 2015 - 03:31 AM, said:

Size is completely irrelevant. The issue is the number of bars obstructing your view.

Furthermore, look at the size of the cockpit glass on a Cataphract or Catapult, and then compare that to the actual size of the cockpit hitbox. 90% of the cockpit glass on a Cataphract is actually the CT hitbox.

That was changed only after Cataphracts were dying to headshots too much. So yeah.

Edited by El Bandito, 16 May 2015 - 03:36 AM.

[stjobe]

El Bandito, on 16 May 2015 - 03:27 AM, said:

If Locust cockpit is resized to giving as much vision as DW cockpit, that Locust is gonna die from cockpit hits a lot.

Not resizing the cockpit, just removing all the crap that restricts your vision:



All the bars I've marked in red (with ma leet paint skillz) could be removed without any resizing of the cockpit, and it would change the visibility out of that cockpit tremendously.

[LordNothing]

it needs to be set up so the view frustum does not intersect those 3 main struts there, the small ones aren't so bad. a head forward and a half a head down would go a long way, you would probibly have to move some of the geometry like the panel and any thing else in front of the pilot down and forward too.

[Nightshade24]

Alistair Winter, on 16 May 2015 - 03:22 AM, said:

Here's the cockpit of a scout mech in MWO, sacrificing firepower and armour for the speed and small size needed to travel the battlefield unnoticed, spotting enemies and reporting back to the team.

Spoiler

Here's the cockpit of the slowest, most heavily armed mech in the whole game. The walking battleship that is supposed to rely on light mechs for scouting.

Spoiler

wow

much role warfare

very logic

such consistent

the part you went wrong here is the fact that the Clans rarely used spotters/ scouts... Also the direwolf has been known for lone-wolfing it... hell, there is a hero direwolf called lone wolf for that reason...

[Alistair Winter]

El Bandito, on 16 May 2015 - 03:33 AM, said:

That was changed only after Cataphracts were dying to headshots too much. So yeah.

Are you using that as a counter argument? Because it doesn't really support your case at all. It just shows that there's no longer any correlation between cockpit size on the model and actual cockpit hitbox size. Which is why new mechs, like the Summoner and Griffin, never had oversized cockpit hitboxes.

Hell, if anything, a bigger cockpit hitbox would improve the Locust survivability. Most people have ~20 points of front armour on their CT. If you could have 18 points of armour on a cockpit, then you'd be able to spread damage better between 4 components. It would effectively nerf firepower and speed more than survivability, because you could no longer shave off cockpit armour to get in another 0.5 tons of MG ammo or whatever.

[Alistair Winter]

Nightshade24, on 16 May 2015 - 03:39 AM, said:

the part you went wrong here is the fact that the Clans rarely used spotters/ scouts... Also the direwolf has been known for lone-wolfing it... hell, there is a hero direwolf called lone wolf for that reason...

Well, I can never win against the tabletop crowd. Whatever argument I make, some TT diehard always comes back with stuff like:

"Actually, in the novel 'Cigar Smoke Jaguar', Maximilian Pryde jr. replaced his cockpit-mounted laser with a huge Acme exploding cigar, which then killed his would-be assassin Pamela Steiner, when she tried to steal his mech. So your argument is invalid."

[Johnny Z]

For sure the Locust cockpit needs some more visibility. Thats a little much and I actually thought it was someone using photo shop to make a joke at first glance.

If thats the Locust cockpit I am sure they will give it another look. Maybe they will make an MC customization to remove some of the bars. The Ac 5 sound is so bad for examle I wouldnt mind them selling a suppressor for it for MC.

Edited by Johnny Z, 16 May 2015 - 04:00 AM.

[bad arcade kitty]

is light pilots should suffer

[Nightshade24]

Alistair Winter, on 16 May 2015 - 03:51 AM, said:

Well, I can never win against the tabletop crowd. Whatever argument I make, some TT diehard always comes back with stuff like:

"Actually, in the novel 'Cigar Smoke Jaguar', Maximilian Pryde jr. replaced his cockpit-mounted laser with a huge Acme exploding cigar, which then killed his would-be assassin Pamela Steiner, when she tried to steal his mech. So your argument is invalid."

I'm not a TT person. I just know my facts. these ARE clan mechs after all! They do not really like indirect combat (some clans ie Clan goliath scorpion) HATE indirect combat. Scouts are not really needed and most clan mechs for hundred(s) of years only ever fought in a 1 vs 1 combat situation or in a star vs star or binary vs binary.

Scouting isn't needed when combat starts within UAC 10 range.

Sorry to steal your thunder.

[Johnny Z]

bad arcade kitty, on 16 May 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

is light pilots should suffer

Thanks for translating the Clan double speak for us Inner Sphere pilots.

[Alistair Winter]

Nightshade24, on 16 May 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

I'm not a TT person. I just know my facts. these ARE clan mechs after all! They do not really like indirect combat (some clans ie Clan goliath scorpion) HATE indirect combat. Scouts are not really needed and most clan mechs for hundred(s) of years only ever fought in a 1 vs 1 combat situation or in a star vs star or binary vs binary.

Scouting isn't needed when combat starts within UAC 10 range.

Sorry to steal your thunder.

You didn't.

I don't want to start a long and tedious debate about the specifics of BT lore vs how it's implemented in MWO, and why some things are no longer relevant to how the game is balanced.

The bottom line is this: It doesn't make sense for the Locust cockpit to be designed like that. No matter if you compare it to a Dire Wolf, Stalker or Atlas.

[Nightshade24]

Alistair Winter, on 16 May 2015 - 04:15 AM, said:

You didn't.

I don't want to start a long and tedious debate about the specifics of BT lore vs how it's implemented in MWO, and why some things are no longer relevant to how the game is balanced.

The bottom line is this: It doesn't make sense for the Locust cockpit to be designed like that. No matter if you compare it to a Dire Wolf, Stalker or Atlas.

Kinda depends I guess.

Instead of relating to lore I will use real life as an example now... and in WWII aircraft the big heavy bombers and stuff has much more advisability then the smaller scouts/ fighters that usually find the locations to bomb/ attack or the enemy ships that need a smashing.

Because overall, the scouts use mainly the sensors to pick up targets and such, the computers the sensors the probes, etc.

The assaults need to actually see as they need to know they are shooting at the right thing... makes sense when you look at it like this.


Also I kinda like the locust 1V (P) cockpit, it reminds me of roman gladiators and such.
Purposely limiting the combatants view to not only to be more light on the feet and to be more situationally aware but to also force him to tunnel vision and force an adrenaline rush in combat. To be honest I also get a lil rush as I use this little bugger.

I do admit it's harder to see out of then the other locusts or the other light mechs but I find it more-so to what makes it unique!

(also I do not want to be that guy but the normal locust 1V is like 1.2 million c-bills... it isn't that much of a lost for buying a new locust for the point of not seeing to well)

^^;

[spottiedogman]

Even if they don't take the bars away at least make them not light up in heat vision mode, that would help some on certain maps!