757 replies to this topic

[IraqiWalker]

Lankaster, on 27 May 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

Iraqiwalker, why are you calling me idiot? I never attacked you. You obvliously have all the answers. Why don't you see if PGI is hiring. You could contribute so much.

Rant

Spoiler

You repeatedly stated that I don't know how to play the game. You kept on saying that it's my fault I lose (for the record, I don't lose very often). Worst of all, you're saying that I need to learn how to play the game so I don't lose to clan mechs, when in fact, I was one of the first people on these forums coaching IS pilots about how to beat them (I pre-ordered wave 1, and I got to test all of the mechs out on the test server before their release. I still have my Orion K from those early clan-busting games). I don't know if you were here for when we had the surprise and then not so surprise IS vs clan matches, but I was coaching, and even lead a lot of teams to win against the clans. That was back when clans had a 90% win rate, btw.

As for why I am calling you an idiot, that's because your posts are very idiotic, in both stubbornness, content, and explanation. You attack people, and call a majority of the community bad pilots, because clan mechs are overpowered (they are. Hell, even you want them to stay over powered, and you haven't denied it.)

See, I can tolerate ignorance, but persistence in it, is what ticks me off, and I am sorry, today, I have a short fuse, and you set it off.

The source material is virtually useless here, since it worked off of 10 second turns, we don't have turns in a real time game.

We have hitboxes. We have laser durations, we have missile spread, we have projectile speed, and we have INSTANT Pinpoint convergence. NONE of these factors exist in TT, in any way shape or form. How do you balance them?

Do you know why people complain about the Timberwolf's armor, even though it has the same max armor stat as any other 75 ton heavy? It's because of the hitboxes, the TBR has some of the tiniest Rear Torso hitboxes, for a heavy, in the game. You can put 2 points on the back, and front load the rest without a problem.

The developer has to do the balance, because the players can't. How do you compensate for lasers that shoot for just as much damage, at twice the range?

TT was balanced, because you could bring 5 clan mechs, and for the same BV I could bring 8+. We don't have that here.

TT was an asymmetric turn based game, MWO is a real time first person shooter, with even team matching. You can't have imbalanced tech, it destroys the game.

If this was a single player game, I would be first in line request that clan tech get unnerfed. However, it's not. This is a PVE game, where BALANCE is the most important factor.


Now here's another thing you didn't know about PGI. The team that is in charge of art design, is not the same as the one in charge of map design, nor is it the same one in charge of balance. So balancing every single thing is not going to impact the rate at which maps are released, or other things being done.

Last but not least. Getting hired by PGI won't change a thing. They tend to do things very slowly. Most of us saw this coming months ago, and even warned about it.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 27 May 2015 - 04:13 PM.

[HeadBeeGuy]

I like the idea of encouraging different mechs to be played and even different builds, I get sick of seeing metas every game it gets dull, but how about being smart in the quirks instead of just throwing a blanket on everything.

how about for start if you're running the complete stock omnipods you dont get punished and maybe slightly more sever negative quirks when you combine say, SCR-C torso with Prime arms, because as it stands even if I run my SCR with stock omnipods I still get heavily punished for it even though I only have 5 E slots and thats its stock build, as if I need lasers with a longer duration.
What you will see instead is say a SCR with 7 MPL with hit and run tactics and using the increased cool down to have forced heat dissipation, instead of having to use actual skill and control to stop shutdown.

Similar things could be applied to the TW and would encourage more diverse builds, I love using AC but CL AC just doesnt have the same punch

[Lankaster]

Thank you for breaking it down for me like I have never played a table top game, a strategy game, a first person shooter, or a sim. I really don't care about your expierence since I have been playing games of all types since before you were born. You do realise that some of the issues you adress like hit box and missle spread can be mitigated by smart piloting and good patient gunnery.

The whole hitbox issue you keep crutching on seem to me to be a design bug that should be addressed on a per chassis basis instead of nerfing entire classes of weapons or chassis.

As far as tech balance. allow the IS to purchas clan tech at inflated c-bill cost. Would that make IS mechs to powerful? With the hard point system I'm not so sure. Sounds like a good time on the test servers to me.

If you ask me they should rehash some of the mechanics. Like coolant flush. Get rid of the modules. Give every mech limited flush ability. Add auxillary tanks as gear. Give then a weight and critical cost. Call it a day..

I am not looking for an I win button. Every time I get smoked I learn something and I get better and I don't go crying to the devs to buff this thing and nerf that thing. Quite honestly my biggest beef is that when I signed on for the Founders Package I was promised a Mechwarrior game and I got a stylized arcade style shooter.

Instaed of telling me I'm a moron, what are your suggestions?

[IraqiWalker]

Lankaster, on 27 May 2015 - 07:36 PM, said:

Thank you for breaking it down for me like I have never played a table top game, a strategy game, a first person shooter, or a sim. I really don't care about your expierence since I have been playing games of all types since before you were born. You do realise that some of the issues you adress like hit box and missle spread can be mitigated by smart piloting and good patient gunnery.

The whole hitbox issue you keep crutching on seem to me to be a design bug that should be addressed on a per chassis basis instead of nerfing entire classes of weapons or chassis.

As far as tech balance. allow the IS to purchas clan tech at inflated c-bill cost. Would that make IS mechs to powerful? With the hard point system I'm not so sure. Sounds like a good time on the test servers to me.

If you ask me they should rehash some of the mechanics. Like coolant flush. Get rid of the modules. Give every mech limited flush ability. Add auxillary tanks as gear. Give then a weight and critical cost. Call it a day..

I am not looking for an I win button. Every time I get smoked I learn something and I get better and I don't go crying to the devs to buff this thing and nerf that thing. Quite honestly my biggest beef is that when I signed on for the Founders Package I was promised a Mechwarrior game and I got a stylized arcade style shooter.

Instaed of telling me I'm a moron, what are your suggestions?

You're not even understanding the base problem.

Michael Schumacher maybe the best driver in the world, but put him in a pinto, and me in a Lamburghini, and I'll run laps around him. That's the problem here.

Pilot skill can't mitigate the equipment being sub par to such an insane degree. You can't mitigate every shot fired at you hitting your CT. So no, what I'm talking about is not what you can mitigate by decent piloting or gunner. Not to mention that the statement doesn't actually address what I'm talking about: Those things NEVER existed in TT.

It's not a design bug. It's a fact of life, since this is not a TT game. Since we can take aim ourselves, bigger, wider mechs are more likely to get hit compared to smaller mechs. Which also did not exist in TT.

I'm not crutching on these, I'm trying to explain to you why asking for TT rules to be brought in is so ludicrous, and should NEVER happen.

Allowing the IS to purchase clan tech is NOT balance. You're just making IS tech irrelevant, and removing it from the game. That is a stupid move, in more ways than one.

Your posts make me think you haven't played the game since closed beta. We're not worried about learning from our mistakes here, no, we're trying to get the game to a fair stage.

If you want to play a game where you run around in unbalanced OP tech, then I really suggest you don't play a PVP game.

Sim or not, these nerfs, and buffs were going to happen, since this is a PVP game.

As for suggestions; Nerfs, and buffs. That's the best way to start balancing the game. Since we can't have BV matching, the only way to do it, is to get the mechs to as close of a level of performance, that pilot skill actually starts to matter. Right now, it really doesn't matter as much. Not for the really OP mechs. You can put a 4 year old in them and they'll easily break 400 damage.

[The Great Unwashed]

IraqiWalker, on 27 May 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

As for 1B 2B arms. That solution is easy. We already have implemented in MWO actually. Quirks! The pods with fewer, or no hardpoints give positive benefits to your mech's mobility, and nimbleness.

Yes, and quirks are not really too bad if you implement them nicely. At the moment, I think they move the game in a very bad direction and balance is worse than it used to be. I think it might be better if (for example) a 1B slot would favor ALL large ballistics (Gauss, LBX10/20, AC10/20) and a 2B slot would favor ALL small ballistics (the rest). Plus, quirks should be small, not like the ridiculous doubling of firing rates of a Grid Iron or Dragon 1N. IMO, quirks should not be much larger than a level 5 module and should not affect weapon range, damage, or shot speed. I can understand better cooldown, lower heat, beam duration, having better infrastructure for the mech. Smaller mechs "should" suffer a bit with penalties for the largest weapon (if you really want to have that AC20 raven).

For clan mechs this more difficult because in their wisdom, PGI blessed some mechs with FF and endo. Guess which mechs do best? I'd be much happier with FF and Endo for all and a scaling-down of all weapons across the clan board to make the superiority over IS nil. I know that is not very lory, but it needs to be done to keep the game fun.

Next, severe hard point restrictions are in place. My first reaction to the TBR-A was that PGI really doesn't have any idea what they are doing in terms of game balance: it is awful. Same for the triple-energy ECM LT Hellbringer and the DireWolf is pretty much self-explanatory. Although I love the criticize the Summoner because it sucks so much compared to its close weight cousins, its hardpoint placement actually makes a bit of sense (except the high Gauss). Perhaps the Summoner can fit a Gauss rifle or ERPCC on its left shoulder: the cockpit was moved quite a bit to the right so it would make sense. You get it, I really dislike very large weapons in torsos

[IraqiWalker]

The Great Unwashed, on 27 May 2015 - 10:34 PM, said:

Yes, and quirks are not really too bad if you implement them nicely. At the moment, I think they move the game in a very bad direction and balance is worse than it used to be. I think it might be better if (for example) a 1B slot would favor ALL large ballistics (Gauss, LBX10/20, AC10/20) and a 2B slot would favor ALL small ballistics (the rest). Plus, quirks should be small, not like the ridiculous doubling of firing rates of a Grid Iron or Dragon 1N. IMO, quirks should not be much larger than a level 5 module and should not affect weapon range, damage, or shot speed. I can understand better cooldown, lower heat, beam duration, having better infrastructure for the mech. Smaller mechs "should" suffer a bit with penalties for the largest weapon (if you really want to have that AC20 raven).

For clan mechs this more difficult because in their wisdom, PGI blessed some mechs with FF and endo. Guess which mechs do best? I'd be much happier with FF and Endo for all and a scaling-down of all weapons across the clan board to make the superiority over IS nil. I know that is not very lory, but it needs to be done to keep the game fun.

Next, severe hard point restrictions are in place. My first reaction to the TBR-A was that PGI really doesn't have any idea what they are doing in terms of game balance: it is awful. Same for the triple-energy ECM LT Hellbringer and the DireWolf is pretty much self-explanatory. Although I love the criticize the Summoner because it sucks so much compared to its close weight cousins, its hardpoint placement actually makes a bit of sense (except the high Gauss). Perhaps the Summoner can fit a Gauss rifle or ERPCC on its left shoulder: the cockpit was moved quite a bit to the right so it would make sense. You get it, I really dislike very large weapons in torsos

In all fairness, the pods themselves with their hardpoints are well made in my opinoin. Some might be redundant, but they are close to the base models. Also, FF, and Endo allocation is something that is beyond their realistic control. The mechs that have Endo, have it here, and the ones that don't, don't. Part of the Omni system's curse is that what's on the base model, is hardlocked for all others. (For the record, I have no problem with the hardpoints on almost all clan mechs - the summoner could use a couple more tbh-)

Now a lot of those super niche quirks, like the Dragon AC5 quirks, are honestly the only reason those chassis see any play. They are clearly not overpowering quirks, since most of those mechs are not even at the bottom of the competitive bucket. Yeah, in a pug match they can shine, but so did my lancemate's 6 flamer Nova. (got 3 kills with it in one drop, and at least 2 every other one for the night. I still have no idea how he did that. Just flamers, NO OTHER WEAPONS!)

I honestly want the quirk system to modify every aspect possible. This way, we can bring mechs closer to parity, without risking making them all the same.

[KursedVixen]

I completely dissagree with the quirks added to the stormcrow and timberwolf they were fine what they needed to do was bring other clan mechs up to speed if they wanted diversity.

I still think the timberwolf should have no quirks at all aside from the ones on the s side torsos though i'm a little iffy on those why again are we clanners penalized further for using fixed jumpjets?

The penatly for jumpjet's has always been it takes up tonnage that could be used for weapons/ammo/equipment and slots. but with the S side torsos we have negative quirks why?

Edited by KursedVixen, 28 May 2015 - 09:32 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

KursedVixen, on 28 May 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

I completely dissagree with the quirks added to the stormcrow and timberwolf they were fine what they needed to do was bring other clan mechs up to speed if they wanted diversity.

I still think the timberwolf should have no quirks at all aside from the ones on the s side torsos though i'm a little iffy on those why again are we clanners penalized further for using fixed jumpjets?

The penatly for jumpjet's has always been it takes up tonnage that could be used for weapons/ammo/equipment and slots. but with the S side torsos we have negative quirks why?

For the S side torsos specifically, it's because they bring in more than just JJs. They bring a lot of hardpoints. Notice that the right S-ST has a stronger penalty than the left one? It's because of the extra hardpoints. Those ST pods kinda make the mech do everything.

As for the negative quirks on the TBR, and SCR. (other than those 2, and 2 specifc arms on the DWF, there are virtually no other negative quirks on clan mechs), that has more to do with the fact that those two chassis are leagues above everything else in the game. Both clan and IS. The SCR is literally better than every clan light, and medium out there, plus most Summoner layouts. It even moves faster than most of them. The TBR is the best mech in the game. Hands down. It's got the perfect sweet spot of mobility, armor (75 tonner armor + being able to front load almost all of it without concern), and firepower (enough tonnage and slots, to mount any configuration you want).

There's a reason the TBR is so iconic. When it hit the field in the Tabletop game is was even more game breaking than here.

The one thing that is really shocking to me is that people are surprised about the nerfs. Hell, I was expecting nerfs to happen if clan tech performed half as well as expected, and that was back when I pre-ordered wave 1.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

The Great Unwashed, on 27 May 2015 - 10:34 PM, said:

For clan mechs this more difficult because in their wisdom, PGI blessed some mechs with FF and endo. Guess which mechs do best? I'd be much happier with FF and Endo for all and a scaling-down of all weapons across the clan board to make the superiority over IS nil. I know that is not very lory, but it needs to be done to keep the game fun.

Or the quirk system you're praising the potential of could be used to boost up the 'mechs that got unfavorable distribution of FF and/or Endo and then we can have both lore and fairness. Just a thought.

[Meta 2013]

<sigh> Clan wave III cancelation request submitted.

While I have bought every package but the garbage can, trying to support this title with a pre-purchase is just no longer viable. Yeah we've always known the mechs could change etc, but its always been on a minor scale.

Now we have hit ludicrous speed. With the inability to remotely know what your actually going to end up with, pre-purchase just isn't a smart option anymore. The clan wave II package was dismal at best,the hell bringer was the only good mech, but it certainly wasn't worth 120 bucks. -yes they have tried to quirk the wave II into being useful, at least you see a few more running around now. Thing is, quirks shouldn't be used to make mechs useful, or to nerf mechs, quirks should be used to make a mech unique, give it semi "specialized feel" and more than anything help diversify across the variants

-quirks = PGI has yet again given up on actuality balancing weapons and mechs, so here is their answer to the problem, ie like ghost heat.


Humorous Analogy :

Imagine if PGI were in charge of the highway department, their sole job is to build a straight highway between 2 cities 100 miles apart. They do so, and its very nice, well built, etc. However for some unknown reason there is a half mile stretch of highway that has 4 potholes. The potholes are just large enough to cause a "few" cars some damage. How will PGI fix it : instead of repairing the potholes, (because for some silly reason they do not know how) so instead they require millions of people to install heavy duty shocks. Even for cars that had no problems in the first place. -we'll call that ghost heat. Well that helped a little, but it wasn't enough, so now they will go and require millions of people to put on heavy duty tires. yes even if the potholes don't effect you. -we will call that quirks. Gah still not enough, ok lets build a new road around the potholes, so in their wisdom, they add a 50 mile bypass ...which adds twice the time to get from point A to B. People complain about the added time and will not take the bypass. So PGI comes up with the best idea yet, they develop and require a pothole avoidance computer, it costs 4 times what you car did, and is required. To bad its made in china, and is only 70% effective. - lets call that hit registration.

What will they do next? The Saga continues.... the potholes are still there. Potholes been there since Day 1 of beta.

[Willbaron]

How long will you continue to destroy any chance of making CW a success with this continued punishment of IS mech's
Are you trying to get rid IS players in CW?

[SJ Kidzin Wirth]

I did not ever bother in beeing active on forums above just reading and shaking my head, there is no point no point. Devs don't care about any constructive feedback but occasionaly adress loudest outcry of IS so called "players".

Jesus, it's all so ******** i don't even know how to speak on that. IS was already dominant in laser vomiting, LLs with zeuses or stalkers. No ghost heat, shorter duration, lower cooldowns, insane quirks giving range longer then Clan LLs... Anyone that tries to deny that is lying himself or is brain sick.

You nerf only viable Clan builds to try counterpart IS lasers just because they are viable, great logic. UACs suck balls, LRMs are useless, only thing left are Dire Wolfs and gauss cannons, wait for them to have quirks that double your charge rate or have 90% chance on firing to blow up.

Also as beeing one of the BattleTech guys that wants that subtitle removed from MWO as it's not that game i want to remind you Clans were relying on laser weapons as they main tech.

Summing up, you done *****d that up completely, i'm done with MWO just as many other, great people i used to play with. Other then money i leave here great ammount of compassion to those who spent thousands od dollars and just can't say "I'm done with this game". Trying to support this **** was the worst way you can spend your money. Better to wipe your ass with bills instead. Soooo glad i actually cancelled Wave III in first month.

PGI, I hope Microsoft will take away you license soon or later so we can have real BattleTech game.

Edited by Kidzin, 14 June 2015 - 03:31 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Kidzin, on 14 June 2015 - 03:30 AM, said:

I did not ever bother in beeing active on forums above just reading and shaking my head, there is no point no point. Devs don't care about any constructive feedback but occasionaly adress loudest outcry of IS so called "players".

Jesus, it's all so ******** i don't even know how to speak on that. IS was already dominant in laser vomiting, LLs with zeuses or stalkers. No ghost heat, shorter duration, lower cooldowns, insane quirks giving range longer then Clan LLs... Anyone that tries to deny that is lying himself or is brain sick.

You nerf only viable Clan builds to try counterpart IS lasers just because they are viable, great logic. UACs suck balls, LRMs are useless, only thing left are Dire Wolfs and gauss cannons, wait for them to have quirks that double your charge rate or have 90% chance on firing to blow up.

Also as beeing one of the BattleTech guys that wants that subtitle removed from MWO as it's not that game i want to remind you Clans were relying on laser weapons as they main tech.

Summing up, you done *****d that up completely, i'm done with MWO just as many other, great people i used to play with. Other then money i leave here great ammount of compassion to those who spent thousands od dollars and just can't say "I'm done with this game". Trying to support this **** was the worst way you can spend your money. Better to wipe your ass with bills instead. Soooo glad i actually cancelled Wave III in first month.

PGI, I hope Microsoft will take away you license soon or later so we can have real BattleTech game.

Please, learn about balance first, and then stop whining about losing the 2 most powerful builds in the game. Honestly, they are still there, and still super strong. I have rarely said this, but: L2P. Anyone that thought the TBR, and SCR were balanced is wrong of the most supreme degree. They needed a nerf, and sadly this one wasn't enough, nor the correct nerf. I could never understand people raging because their favorite "I WIN" button was taken away. The mechs were too strong. Hell clan tech is still super good, across the board.

[C E Dwyer]

Damn I need more popcorn, and a rowing boat the tears and threats are getting extreme

I see Clan crying, I see I.S crying.

I see tantrums my twelve year old daughter would be ashamed of

Edited by Cathy, 15 June 2015 - 06:45 AM.

[PraetorGix]

Cathy, on 15 June 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

Damn I need more popcorn, and a rowing boat the tears and threats are getting extreme

I see Clan crying, I see I.S crying.

I see tantrums my twelve year old daughter would be ashamed of

Tantrums may be extreme here, but in this case I have to say it's sadly the one and only thing the players can do after getting f**ked over. I mean, it's not like PGI will address any of this, except to screw up some more. I don't know, you seem so cool and over this but you are probably not very invested in the game in the first place. Maybe you didn't spend much money on it, or maybe you are rich, or you just don't care about the franchise's history at all. IMHO you are not representative of this player base, hence your detached superiority. I'm sure other replies will not be as civilized as this and maybe you deserve those coming posts...

[IraqiWalker]

Cmdr Hurrell, on 15 June 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

Tantrums may be extreme here, but in this case I have to say it's sadly the one and only thing the players can do after getting f**ked over. I mean, it's not like PGI will address any of this, except to screw up some more. I don't know, you seem so cool and over this but you are probably not very invested in the game in the first place. Maybe you didn't spend much money on it, or maybe you are rich, or you just don't care about the franchise's history at all. IMHO you are not representative of this player base, hence your detached superiority. I'm sure other replies will not be as civilized as this and maybe you deserve those coming posts...

What are you even talking about?

So far MWO has been pretty cool about representing the lore IN A BALANCED MANNER. Also, in all honesty, most players that whine here do deserve t get laughed at. There's a difference between offering proper criticism, and whining like a 6 year old. People that cry because their OP mech was /somewhat/ balanced, don't get any pity.