22 replies to this topic

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Hypothetical: The AC2 no longer has a travel time and becomes a hitscan weapon.
Does this make it a more attractive weapon? Would it still be bad? Or would it be OP?

How would you make the AC2 worth its tonnage

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 19 May 2015 - 07:44 AM.

[FlipOver]

Would it make sense?

[AntiCitizenJuan]

FlipOver, on 19 May 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

Would it make sense?

In terms of lore, no, but there are other weapon effects in the game dont follow the lore either.

The AC2 is bad. Would this make it better?

[Juodas Varnas]

It'd still be ****, but i guess... slightly less ****?
More usable as a long range weapon it's supposed to be, i guess.

[Bilbo]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 19 May 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

In terms of lore, no, but there are other weapon effects in the game dont follow the lore either.

The AC2 is bad. Would this make it better?

It wouldn't be a cannon. Not sure why anyone would want a long range low damage laser though.

[Siegegun]

Bad idea is bad. The ac2 needs a bit of love but making it some type of hit scan weapon is not the love it needs. All that effectively does is make it laser with different animations. We have lasers already. Just my opinion of course.

[Khobai]

or we could just try to fix the AC2 without making it a ballstic laser.

for starters... cut its heat in half because it runs way too hot.

if thats still not enough then maybe also increase its ammo per ton to reduce its weight.

Edited by Khobai, 19 May 2015 - 07:49 AM.

[Revis Volek]

I;d love for every shell to just regeister on my target reticule...be a step up for me.


I am assuming they do dmg because i had a 730 dmg game in it the other night but if i am firing its at max reload time the 2nd shell never makes my reticule turn red. NEVER!

[Skarlock]

Tough question to answer. AC/2 bullets already travel extremely fast, so typically hitting your target isn't the issue, it's the fact that you're spending 6 tons (IS) or 5 tons (clan) respectively for a weapon that only does 2 damage per shot. The heat is also still substantial if you try to boat more than 3 of them and fire them for any length of time, but the damage just doesn't add up to that much.

A king crab or dire wolf can boat 6 of em and still do far, far less damage than if they just go 4 or 5 UAC 5s. It's also very hard to win trades with anything that just moves behind cover if they get tired of being pelted by spitballs, so any build with significantly higher alpha (which is really easy to do for medium mechs and above) is winning those trades by a large margin.

I think it would help the weapon at least somewhat without making it overpowered, but I don't know if it would actually make them that much more viable.

[Cyborne Elemental]

If you can hit with Gauss, you can easily hit repeatedly with AC-2.

Right? haha

Edited by Mister D, 19 May 2015 - 07:56 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

Funny that you made this thread right now OP. I just posted a thread on the same subject with some possible solutions.
Is/clan Ac2 Balancing Debate.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Hypothetically, what about considering:

IS AC/2
4.00 Damage
1.00 Heat
1.60 Cooldown
2.50 DPS
0.63 HPS
38 Rounds per Ton (152 Damage per Ton)
1194 to 1262 m/s velocity

Group six together and you have
24 damage 6 heat every 1.6 seconds 36 tons plus ammo out to 720 M
compared to two Gauss
30 damage 2 heat every ~4.8 seconds 30 tons plus ammo out to 660 M

C-UAC/2
2.00 Damage
0.50 Heat
0.80 Cooldown
2.50 DPS
0.63 HPS
75 Rounds per Ton (150 Damage per Ton)
1300 m/s velocity

Group six together and you have
12 damage 3 heat every 0.8 seconds, 30 tons plus ammo out to 810 M

C-LB2-X AC
3 Damage (three pellets)
0.75 Heat
1.20 Cooldown
2.50 DPS
0.63 HPS
50 Rounds per Ton (150 Damage per Ton)
1296 to 1330 m/s velocity

Group six together and you have
18 damage 4.5 Heat every 1.20 seconds, 30 tons out to 900 M

[Khobai]

Quote

4.00 Damage

its an ac/2 though not an ac/4 that makes no sense

all it needs is a heat reduction and possibly an ammo per ton increase.

[Joseph Mallan]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 19 May 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

Hypothetical: The AC2 no longer has a travel time and becomes a hitscan weapon.
Does this make it a more attractive weapon? Would it still be bad? Or would it be OP?

How would you make the AC2 worth its tonnage

I prefer sand blasting with Missiles. Small damage high cyclic isn't my style.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Come on, the Classes was volume of 'lead' in 10 seconds. And we know that before Quirks, Modules and fast Fire are factored:

An AC/20 is really an AC/50
An AC/10 is really an AC/40
An AC/5 is really an AC/30
An AC/2 is really an AC/27.8

Various MWO weapon values do not match their 'number', so I see no reason why we can't adjust damage per projectiles for these weapons.

[Weeny Machine]

The AC/2 sucks because of...

1. Uptime on a target required
2. Heat
3. Range - it doesn't really outdistance lasers despite its puny damage
4. Velocity isn't that great

In short: the weapon system falls short in nearly all regards. In the TT game it had at least an awesome range and next to no heat - and you could always hope for a critical hit

[Y E O N N E]

Praetor Knight, on 19 May 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

Hypothetically, what about considering:

IS AC/2
4.00 Damage
1.00 Heat
1.60 Cooldown
2.50 DPS
0.63 HPS
38 Rounds per Ton (152 Damage per Ton)
1194 to 1262 m/s velocity

Group six together and you have
24 damage 6 heat every 1.6 seconds 36 tons plus ammo out to 720 M
compared to two Gauss
30 damage 2 heat every ~4.8 seconds 30 tons plus ammo out to 660 M

C-UAC/2
2.00 Damage
0.50 Heat
0.80 Cooldown
2.50 DPS
0.63 HPS
75 Rounds per Ton (150 Damage per Ton)
1300 m/s velocity

Group six together and you have
12 damage 3 heat every 0.8 seconds, 30 tons plus ammo out to 810 M

C-LB2-X AC
3 Damage (three pellets)
0.75 Heat
1.20 Cooldown
2.50 DPS
0.63 HPS
50 Rounds per Ton (150 Damage per Ton)
1296 to 1330 m/s velocity

Group six together and you have
18 damage 4.5 Heat every 1.20 seconds, 30 tons out to 900 M

What you have done is made a poor-man's AC/5 out of the IS AC/2. I would rather cut damage and heat back down to 2.00 and 0.5 for the IS option and double the rate of fire. The rate of fire is what makes it fun and distinct from the AC/5. What makes the gun really suck right now is that it runs so hot you can't use it in combination with other weapons as a brawling option.

[x Marder x]

Reduce heat, increase fire rate should help even when it's only 2 dmg the rate of fire would sum it up. Paly with rate of fier.

its a "autocannon" you know 20mm or even 30mm now have much higher fire rate than the ac2.

[Briarburl]

AC2s are a DoT. You cannot use them like ballistics or like lasers. I still think travel time and heat is very important for balance, because if the AC2, or cUAC2, did not have travel time or heat it would go uncontested as the best weapon for long range attrition.

"But gauss and PPC!" > These are burst weapons not attrition.

Yes after firing for 10 seconds (not an actual calculated number of seconds) straight on a target you should take a few seconds to cool down.

"But its a small cannon and I have to cool down!" > Yes you do. Guns heat up when fired, the more rapidly you fire the more heat you create. It makes sense they have some heat management issues.

Yes lasers do not have travel time and on paper look like a better fit for this type of gameplay, but not really. The long range laser boats will over heat putting out the same attrition damage as the AC2.

"Yes but what about the ravens with their lasers!!!!OMG" > these are lights with long range weapons popping in and out of cover; you don't go out into the open with a LRM boat present, why would you subject yourself to their hermit crab warfare?

Right now people do not like AC2s because they do not do one thing or another, but I think the biggest issue with AC2s is the player base. Everyone wants either big upfront damage, or sustained facemeltyness. The AC2 does neither of those, but what it does do is harass, and be underestimated. AC2s are not for brawling either, I will restate AC2s are for harassment, and sustainedish support fire. Mechs like the adder and black jack are great at this sustained fire support/harassment role.

I don't know if players who favor AC2s will back me up with all of this, but if you use AC2s correctly there is really nothing wrong with them, and you can do a fair job at dishing out the pain train. AC2s are not broken they are just different.

[Roadkill]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 19 May 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

Hypothetical: The AC2 no longer has a travel time and becomes a hitscan weapon.
Does this make it a more attractive weapon? Would it still be bad? Or would it be OP?

Not really. The main problem is heat.

Quote

How would you make the AC2 worth its tonnage

I'd start by trying it at 0.5 heat per shot instead of 1.0. That might do it.

Realistically, they also need to rework the impulse system. A weapon shouldn't have an impulse. Impulse should be determined by the amount of damage in a volley. So firing 5 AC/2s in one volley should have the same impulse as a single AC/10.

Do that and using a macro to stagger-fire AC/2s is no longer a problem. You could get rid of ghost heat on the AC/2 at that point, too. A single AC/2 would barely be noticeable, so stagger firing them every 0.2 seconds wouldn't cause stun lock. (Which was the main reason the AC/2 was given ghost heat.)