98 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

i bought two crows yesterday and i still had a good first run experience. they do run a little hot, but its not beyond being manageable. maybe i will complain more when i get the prime.

[Dark MagiKarp]

Bought a couple of SCR's on sale yesterday, having grinded C-Bills. The stock SCR-Prime post nerf is a total disappointment. Sooo hard to keep those cERLL's on target, and the face time is just unbearable - I just get hammered.

Edited by Dark MagiKarp, 24 May 2015 - 09:23 PM.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Jman5, on 18 May 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

This weekend there has been much crying and gnashing of teeth over the upcoming quirk nerfs to various mechs. Many bemoaned the death of lasers and Clans!

Well I took a brief look at the numbers and with the help of metamechs I did a little comparison to see whats in store for the stormcrow laser vomit. (spoiler: you're going to be fine)

For the purpose of this demonstration I have borrowed one of Gman's builds from his metamech website.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2b6fbded10b92e0

• +18% cooldown increase
  
• +18% beam Duration

To put that in perspective

• ER medium Laser duration goes from 1.15s -> 1.357s

Assuming you're elited and have level 5 cooldown modules:

• ER medium laser Cooldown goes from 2.49s -> 3.03s

• DPS of an ER ML with wep modules goes from 1.92 -> 1.6

• Heat Per second goes from: 1.65 -> 1.367

x5 ML Goes from 9.6 DPS/8.2 HPS -> 8 DPS/6.8 HPS



So drop 1 heatsink and add a 6th medium lasers and its business as usual

x6 ML with new values = 9.6 DPS / 8.2 HPS

So something like this instead:

TL;DR add an extra medium laser to your Stormcrow laser builds, switch a few omnipods around, and it's business as usual.

It's not so much the "OMG MAH MEKS R REKS NAO!" moreso than PGI adding another band-aid to the situation and the majority of the people having kneejerk deva vu from last year. I'm just afraid this is "Incremental" and it's going to get turned up to 2.0 burn time again.

[Tapdancing Kerensky]

My SCR-A was barely touched and rocks with 4x C-MPL and 3xSRM6s.

Maybe the problems people are experiencing is user error?

[Brizna]

Jman5, on 18 May 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

This weekend there has been much crying and gnashing of teeth over the upcoming quirk nerfs to various mechs. Many bemoaned the death of lasers and Clans!

Well I took a brief look at the numbers and with the help of metamechs I did a little comparison to see whats in store for the stormcrow laser vomit. (spoiler: you're going to be fine)

For the purpose of this demonstration I have borrowed one of Gman's builds from his metamech website.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2b6fbded10b92e0

• +18% cooldown increase
  
• +18% beam Duration

To put that in perspective

• ER medium Laser duration goes from 1.15s -> 1.357s

Assuming you're elited and have level 5 cooldown modules:

• ER medium laser Cooldown goes from 2.49s -> 3.03s

• DPS of an ER ML with wep modules goes from 1.92 -> 1.6

• Heat Per second goes from: 1.65 -> 1.367

x5 ML Goes from 9.6 DPS/8.2 HPS -> 8 DPS/6.8 HPS




So drop 1 heatsink and add a 6th medium lasers and its business as usual

x6 ML with new values = 9.6 DPS / 8.2 HPS

So something like this instead:

TL;DR add an extra medium laser to your Stormcrow laser builds, switch a few omnipods around, and it's business as usual.

I applaud the spirit and analysis but this post is misleading and focuses too much in one aspect and too little to another very crucial aspect. Burn time is paramount, there is a reason why people are running lots of pulses since they were buffed a few months back and it's not ~1 extra point of damage and reduced range. You may be able to keep an equivalent DPS but lethality is severely diminished, furthermore if in an attempt to keep a beautiful but not so important stat like DPS high you add another hard point you are going to get an extra 3% nerf to lethality.

Neither Stormcrows nor Timberwolves have been nerfed into oblivion, but they have been nerfed very noticeably, clans are still running the same build not because they weren't nerfed badly but because the alternatives suck.

PS: While you may look at my faction logo and think "another whiny claner" you should know that my unit is mostly IS and that I am just in a 1 week contract for this event.

Edited by Brizna, 25 May 2015 - 12:55 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Brizna, on 25 May 2015 - 12:39 AM, said:

I applaud the spirit and analysis but this post is misleading and focuses too much in one aspect and too little to another very crucial aspect. Burn time is paramount, there is a reason why people are running lots of pulses since they were buffed a few months back and it's not ~1 extra point of damage and reduced range. You may be able to keep an equivalent DPS but lethality is severely diminished, furthermore if in an attempt to keep a beautiful but not so important stat like DPS high you add another hard point you are going to get an extra 3% nerf to lethality.
....

Where does this 3% come from?

If you use a handful of cERMLs already with one cERLL or cLPL (like the posted sample build), then by adding one more cERML you can make up the decrease of damage per face time (for 1.15s, which is the pre-nerf cERML burn time). But I'm not really sure if that one extra cERML can cover the difference of damage per face time for 2x cERLL or 2x cLPL builds (TBR builds) because I'm too lazy to do the calculation for now....

[Brizna]

You refer to that build that uses a real money gated omnipod? And furthermor even when the pod is ungated it will still mean having a huge ammount of weaponry in an easily destroyable single location without godly quirks (quite the contrary) like WVR-6K i.e.

In general stormcrow gets 3% penalty per hard point, that right arm with 4 and the other with 6 energy hard points gets a "bonus" of 3% less penalty compared to the 12% and 18% penalty they should have if following the same logic every other omnipod does, but still there are issues with them.

[LordNothing]

LordNothing, on 22 May 2015 - 02:51 PM, said:

i bought two crows yesterday and i still had a good first run experience. they do run a little hot, but its not beyond being manageable. maybe i will complain more when i get the prime.

nope prime is awesome.

of course i did replace all lasers with c-mpls.

Edited by LordNothing, 25 May 2015 - 01:05 AM.

[Bluttrunken]

Well yeah, true, but there's no way to circumvent the longer burn duration making it harder to push out the full dps of your laser array. So, gratz on figuring out that more cd makes lasers more heat efficient because that's an completely obscure thing to notice.

[Telmasa]

The S-crow nerfs aren't a big deal cause it fails to address what makes S-crows overwhelming in the first place: streak-6 boating and the best hitbox of any medium in the game.

Jenner treatment + reduced Streak-6 range, bang, you've balanced the Stormcrow.

[Ultimax]

Telmasa, on 25 May 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

The S-crow nerfs aren't a big deal cause it fails to address what makes S-crows overwhelming in the first place: streak-6 boating and the best hitbox of any medium in the game.

Jenner treatment + reduced Streak-6 range, bang, you've balanced the Stormcrow.

How about no?


Excellent hitboxes are a good thing, not a bad thing.


It doesn't need to have it's hitboxes be nerfed, especially when so many mechs get quirks specifically to improve their survivability due to mediocre or outright bad hitboxes.

[FupDup]

Ultimatum X, on 25 May 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

How about no?
--

Here is a forum weapon to fully express this thought:

Edited by FupDup, 25 May 2015 - 07:42 PM.

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 25 May 2015 - 07:42 PM, said:

Here is a forum weapon to fully express this thought:

How do you feel about overriding the damage transfer?

It was changed from 50% reduction to 60% reduction around when the Clams were released.

Bringing it down to, say, 30%, doesn't affect immediate survivability, since armour isn't affected, but once it loses a ST, it suddenly doesn't lose 60% of the damage dealt, only 30%.



PGi would have to fudge around with code...that doesn't always end well...(AC2 ghost heat affecting LAAs?)

[Chuck Jager]

Dark MagiKarp, on 24 May 2015 - 09:22 PM, said:

Bought a couple of SCR's on sale yesterday, having grinded C-Bills. The stock SCR-Prime post nerf is a total disappointment. Sooo hard to keep those cERLL's on target, and the face time is just unbearable - I just get hammered.

cERLLs were a bad choice before the nerf, they just became worse

[Gyrok]

Dark MagiKarp, on 24 May 2015 - 09:22 PM, said:

Bought a couple of SCR's on sale yesterday, having grinded C-Bills. The stock SCR-Prime post nerf is a total disappointment. Sooo hard to keep those cERLL's on target, and the face time is just unbearable - I just get hammered.

Thank the IS...because they are mostly terribad pilots, we cannot have nice things.

[Deathlike]

Gyrok, on 26 May 2015 - 04:55 AM, said:

Thank the IS...because they are mostly terribad pilots, we cannot have nice things.

Oh boy.

[Gyrok]

Deathlike, on 26 May 2015 - 07:07 AM, said:

Oh boy.

I did not say mercs...I said IS.

[Hillslam]

The SCR are TBR are still tier 0. They're fine. Played em post-patch, wrecked face. If you can't its cuz you suck. Sig still applies.

They were the wrong nerfs anyway. Nerf mobility, not firepower.

Actually I think the TBR was just fine as is. Never had a problem registering damage on timbers (minus the hopscotch animation exploit). The SCR was the outlier edgecase on tanking damage and remains so, imo. Nerf failure.

Reverse the nerfs. Do research. Implement right ones.

Edited by Hillslam, 27 May 2015 - 04:59 AM.

[McMurl]

what you guys fail to understand is yes, maybe the same DPS with an extra laser, but your applied damage will drop through the floor because you wont be able to alpha nearly as many times before heat shutdown.

The nerfs arent here to kill DPS, its here to kill applied DPS and overall damage output.

Same DPS, half the overall damage output. its pretty nasty. i can only alpha 3.5 times as opposed to 5.5 times before i shut down. even with the higher cycle times.