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Madcat Mania (Not Balance Related)

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#1 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 04:17 AM

This has been bugging me a bit, and I'm just curious if there was a reason other than appeasing BT fans who wanted a Madcat for everything.

Why did BT try to make a Madcat for EVERYONE? lol

IS need a Madcat?...SURE! Raksasha!
What? Assault pilots need a Madcat?...SURE! Madcat MKII
What?? Now you medium pilots want a Madcat....SURE! Madcat III

Wholly hell Battletech! Lol. That got real ridiculous.

Is there a light mech Madcat IV in the works somewhere? Oh right! That's the Cougar. I'm surprised that wasn't called a Madcat (insert suffix here). Just pop the missile launchers a bit higher on the shoulders and you're set.

BTW, if both the Madcat MKII and Madcat III were clan developed, why weren't they reffered to as Timber Wolf MKII or Timber Wolf III? Was it a politically motivated thing because Clan Wolf (the developer of the Timber Wolf) lost against Jade Falcon and had to become Wolf in Exile? Just curious because you wouldn't think clanners would pick an IS name for their mechs.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 20 May 2015 - 04:18 AM.


#2 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 04:19 AM

View PostMeiSooHaityu, on 20 May 2015 - 04:17 AM, said:

This has been bugging me a bit, and I'm just curious if there was a reason other than appeasing BT fans who wanted a Madcat for everything.

Why did BT try to make a Madcat for EVERYONE? lol

IS need a Madcat?...SURE! Raksasha!
What? Assault pilots need a Madcat?...SURE! Madcat MKII
What?? Now you medium pilots want a Madcat....SURE! Madcat III

Wholly hell Battletech! Lol. That got real ridiculous.

Is there a light mech Madcat IV in the works somewhere? Oh right! That's the Cougar. I'm surprised that wasn't called a Madcat (insert suffix here). Just pop the missile launchers a bit higher on the shoulders and you're set.

BTW, if both the Madcat MKII and Madcat III were clan developed, why weren't they reffered to as Timber Wolf MKII or Timber Wolf III? Was it a politically motivated thing because Clan Wolf (the developer of the Timber Wolf) lost against Jade Falcon and had to become Wolf in Exile? Just curious because you wouldn't think clanners would pick an IS name for their mechs.

Marketing! Blame teh Diamond Sharks!

#3 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 04:24 AM

I briefly wondered why the Raksasha wasn't just called a Catapult MK II or something similar, but I realized that probably wouldn't be the best selling point. Despite my love of the Catapult, it is more of a mobile LRM turret and less of an in your face strike mech like the Timber Wolf.

#4 Paigan

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 04:25 AM

It's a popular mech and it looks moreless logical and viable.
I.E. dedicated weapon arms, proper launchers, etc.
Not those childish-japanesy toy-robo styles that most IS mechs have.

It makes sense to want to make different versions of it.

Look at today's tanks or helicopters or ships or jets:
You have one basic, effcient design that makes sense and then you scale it up or down and adjust it a little.

No need to build a catamaran-style aircraft carrier just to make it look "unique". The basic design is good. Roll with it.

Similar with the Timberwolf, albeit on a more aesthetical level than on a technical level (who knows what an efficient mech design would have to look like, right?)

Edited by Paigan, 20 May 2015 - 04:25 AM.


#5 Juodas Varnas

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 04:30 AM

View PostPaigan, on 20 May 2015 - 04:25 AM, said:


Not those childish-japanesy toy-robo styles that most IS mechs have.


Posted Image

#6 martian

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 04:34 AM

View PostMeiSooHaityu, on 20 May 2015 - 04:17 AM, said:

This has been bugging me a bit, and I'm just curious if there was a reason other than appeasing BT fans who wanted a Madcat for everything.

Why did BT try to make a Madcat for EVERYONE? lol

IS need a Madcat?...SURE! Raksasha!
What? Assault pilots need a Madcat?...SURE! Madcat MKII
What?? Now you medium pilots want a Madcat....SURE! Madcat III

Wholly hell Battletech! Lol. That got real ridiculous.

It's not BattleTech's (and FASA's fault.

Mad Cat Mk.II debuted in Microsoft's MechWarrior 4: Vengeance PC game.
Madcat III debuted in WizKids' MechWarrior: Age of Destruction click game.

View PostMeiSooHaityu, on 20 May 2015 - 04:17 AM, said:

Is there a light mech Madcat IV in the works somewhere? Oh right! That's the Cougar. I'm surprised that wasn't called a Madcat (insert suffix here). Just pop the missile launchers a bit higher on the shoulders and you're set.

Sorry:
1) Cougar is Puma on steroids. It has nothing in common with the Mad Cat.
2) Mad Cat Mk.IV already exists. It is Dark Age heavy OmniMech, replacement of the original Mad Cat.

View PostMeiSooHaityu, on 20 May 2015 - 04:17 AM, said:

BTW, if both the Madcat MKII and Madcat III were clan developed, why weren't they reffered to as Timber Wolf MKII or Timber Wolf III? Was it a politically motivated thing because Clan Wolf (the developer of the Timber Wolf) lost against Jade Falcon and had to become Wolf in Exile? Just curious because you wouldn't think clanners would pick an IS name for their mechs.

No.

It was because the Diamond Sharks (manufacturers of Mad Cat Mk.II and Mad Cat III) expected that IS powers will be their primary customers. So they used IS codenames instead of Clan names.

#7 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 04:40 AM

View PostPaigan, on 20 May 2015 - 04:25 AM, said:

It's a popular mech and it looks moreless logical and viable.
I.E. dedicated weapon arms, proper launchers, etc.
Not those childish-japanesy toy-robo styles that most IS mechs have.

It makes sense to want to make different versions of it.

Look at today's tanks or helicopters or ships or jets:
You have one basic, effcient design that makes sense and then you scale it up or down and adjust it a little.

No need to build a catamaran-style aircraft carrier just to make it look "unique". The basic design is good. Roll with it.

Similar with the Timberwolf, albeit on a more aesthetical level than on a technical level (who knows what an efficient mech design would have to look like, right?)


I get that. It was a popular design with the Clans. I can definently see why the IS would TRY and make their own version. At least the IS named it something other than Madcat.

Why did the Clans name their versions Madcat? Clan have so much hate and disdain for the IS, why would they even consider giving an IS name to their mechs? Just weird.

I suppose outside of lore you could say marketing reasons, but that didn't stop them from naming the IS version the Rakasha.

It just strikes me as odd.

#8 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 04:43 AM

View Postmartian, on 20 May 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

It's not BattleTech's (and FASA's fault.

Mad Cat Mk.II debuted in Microsoft's MechWarrior 4: Vengeance PC game.
Madcat III debuted in WizKids' MechWarrior: Age of Destruction click game.


Sorry:
1) Cougar is Puma on steroids. It has nothing in common with the Mad Cat.
2) Mad Cat Mk.IV already exists. It is Dark Age heavy OmniMech, replacement of the original Mad Cat.


No.

It was because the Diamond Sharks (manufacturers of Mad Cat Mk.II and Mad Cat III) expected that IS powers will be their primary customers. So they used IS codenames instead of Clan names.


I know the Cougar's heritage, it was more of a joke remark :).

That last paragraph was really the answer I was looking for. It makes sense that if you thought the IS was your customer, you would give it an IS name.

Still, you would think other Clans would shun the mechs on the name alone. Clanners tend to be stubborn and prideful that way.

#9 Molossian Dog

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 04:46 AM

Sharks don´t love you back.

#10 martian

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 05:01 AM

View PostMeiSooHaityu, on 20 May 2015 - 04:43 AM, said:

Still, you would think other Clans would shun the mechs on the name alone. Clanners tend to be stubborn and prideful that way.

But the Clanners are not so sentimental to shun a good 'Mech.
If needed, they would probably simply rename such 'Mech. The upgrade of Wolverine IIC bears the name "Conjurer". Perhaps because after the Annihilation of Clan Wolverine it wouldn't be "politically correct" to use a 'Mech with the same name? One quick change of the name and it's all right.

#11 SnagaDance

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 05:17 AM

View Postmartian, on 20 May 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

But the Clanners are not so sentimental to shun a good 'Mech.
If needed, they would probably simply rename such 'Mech. The upgrade of Wolverine IIC bears the name "Conjurer". Perhaps because after the Annihilation of Clan Wolverine it wouldn't be "politically correct" to use a 'Mech with the same name? One quick change of the name and it's all right.


Posted Image

Edited by SnagaDance, 20 May 2015 - 05:21 AM.


#12 SpiralFace

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 06:09 AM

The main reason the IS tried so hard to clone the Madcat was because it was absolutley terrifying to go up against to the average IS pilot.

The mech was essentially a Marauder and a Catapult smashed together. (two awesome mechs smashed into an bigger mech.)

Timberwolves still rank among some of the most deadly mechs in battletech. They are brutally efficient, have mixed loadouts that makes them terrifying at all ranges in TT. (Where mixed loadouts actually have benefits to using them.) They have a utility that is just not found in other mech designs, all cooked up with the nightmarish legacy of their efficiency and performance durring the invasion.

Long and short, THIS was the most terrifying mech in the entire clan arsenal in the eyes of the IS. So naturally, they wanted to emulate it to repeat the sucess of the design through mechs like the Rakasha.

View PostMeiSooHaityu, on 20 May 2015 - 04:40 AM, said:

Why did the Clans name their versions Madcat? Clan have so much hate and disdain for the IS, why would they even consider giving an IS name to their mechs? Just weird.

I suppose outside of lore you could say marketing reasons, but that didn't stop them from naming the IS version the Rakasha.

It just strikes me as odd.


The Madcat MK II and III where manufactured by Clan Dimond shark with the explicit intent to sell the designs to the highest bidder in the IS. They named the mech "Madcat" specifically to appeal to IS buyers. Dimond Sharks tempted the fate of clan law by designing a series of second line designs with clan tech with the explicit intent to sell them to the IS. Madcat II and III where pretty much the poster child of these sales due to the IS desperately wanting Madcat's of their own. (heance the Rakasha which was a rushed attempt to emulate the design in the mid 3050's.) But they where not the only mechs that they did this with. They created the "Ha Otoko" mech specifically to Manufacture a clan mech on the cheap, and appeal to the tastes of House Kurita to proportedly sell it for a high profit (given it was made on the cheap, but to the IS, clan tech is clan tech.)

It was these kinds of shinanagins that eventually came to bite the dimond sharks in the rear as they got more and more brazen with their attempts to clearly manufacture clan mech designs to explicitly sell them to the IS powers. (Madcat mk. III was if I recall one of the true breaking points.) Which ultimately lead to their clan's downfall and forced them to reform under their original "Clan Sea Fox" designation.

The clan's liked the MK II design as a solid second line mech, but in all honesty, given that clans only consider standard mechs as "garrison" and not front-line mechs, the MK II's and III's ended up being more popular in the IS states then it ever was with the clans. (This was part of the reason dimondsharks where able to get away with it for as long as they did given that clans already thought of standard mechs as "inferior" to omnimechs.)

#13 Paigan

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 06:33 AM

View PostJuodas Varnas, on 20 May 2015 - 04:30 AM, said:

View PostPaigan, on 20 May 2015 - 04:25 AM, said:

Not those childish-japanesy toy-robo styles that most IS mechs have.

Posted Image


Hohohoh.
I see that reaction as a 100% confirmation from you that I am right, because you are upset that you can't deny it.
Thank you!


PS: Gangsta Tyrion :D

Edited by Paigan, 20 May 2015 - 06:34 AM.


#14 Juodas Varnas

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 06:39 AM

View PostPaigan, on 20 May 2015 - 06:33 AM, said:


Hohohoh.
I see that reaction as a 100% confirmation from you that I am right, because you are upset that you can't deny it.
Thank you!


PS: Gangsta Tyrion :D

If i tell your mother is a wh*re and you get upset, does that mean i'm 100% right about your mother being a wh*re?
I guess, i can work with that kind of logic.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 20 May 2015 - 06:39 AM.






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