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A Reason To Play


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#1 Banditman

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 06:41 AM

One of the things that is very obvious to me as a long time gamer (and long time MWO player) is that MWO has serious shortcomings in it's "sticky" factor. There is nothing besides the gameplay to keep you coming back for more, and frankly that gameplay is a pretty limited experience.

Yes, new maps help. This is probably the biggest way that PGI can (and does) keep gameplay fresh right now. More new maps are great, and refreshing old ones isn't bad either. It isn't the end of the discussion however, nor should it be.

Some folks say new mechs, and there is a tiny bit of truth there, but honestly, not much. New mechs don't really add anything we don't already have. Yes, the Clan side of the house definitely needs more variety. I don't think it's unreasonable to say they need about double the number of mechs they currently have. However, the chances that a new mech really adds something "new" to the game is pretty low.

Community Warfare was supposed to be that final "pillar" of the game that tied everything together, added stickiness and made MWO awesome. So far, that hasn't materialized. CW seems to be sitting in roughly the same place that end game raiding does in a typical MMO. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but so far, PGI hasn't managed to capitalize on that.

Sure, in the short term there are reasons to play. You level up mechs, earn Cbills for upgrades and that sort of thing. You buy more mechs to round out your stable and provide you with some options when you need to meet a requirement or tactical situation. But honestly, that isn't really something that takes all that long, and I'm certainly not one who likes a "grind".

Nevetheless, the bottom line is that PGI hasn't really defined or outlined a long term reason for any player to keep doing drops. People who aren't playing MWO aren't paying PGI any money. People who leave MWO aren't paying PGI any money. This is a Big Problem ™.

This line of thinking, along with a concept PGI has dangled in the past, seem to offer a solution.


Random Drops

This concept is probably not new to anyone, and it's so simple I can't believe it's not already in game. All of the necessary structures already exist, the only requirement that may cause a problem is the need for a much improved Inventory system. Even in this, the new Mechlab functionality seems to offer at least a partial solution.

In short, at the end of every drop, there is a small chance that you'll earn something. Accomplishing certain things in the match may alter that chance. If you've ever played an MMORPG, or a game like EVE or Star Trek Online, this will make sense to you.

The concept is that the weapons and mods we have now are the base item. Throughout this, I'll be talking about an IS medium laser, but the concept can apply to any weapon or module that exists in game right now.

For a medium laser, there are a few things that sort of define that weapon. Damage, range and heat are the primary ones. For other items, there may be fewer defining characteristics. A Siesmic Sensor for instance has only one, range. Some may not "fit" with this concept, for instance, a Radar Deprivation module. It just does something, with no math behind it.

Random drops should take one of the defining characteristics, and improve it. For the medium laser, perhaps it improves the range or damage or heat. Balance is key here. Improving more than one characteristic could lead to problems. Improving by too much could lead to problems. Caution is required.

It's also important that these drops no be a guarantee, but a possibility.


A Basic System

You start by tiering your items. Tier 1 items are what we have now, the base items - let's call them Common items. Tier 2 items, let's call them Uncommon items, and they have an increase / improvement of 5% to one of their defining characteristics. Tier 3 items, let's call them Rare items, and these have an increase / improvement of 10% to one of their defining characteristics. Finally, Tier 4 items, let's call these Exotic items, have an increase / improvement of 15% to one of their defining characteristics.

Acquiring these items happens in different places. Tier 2 / Uncommon items are dropped in solo queue matches and above. Tier 3 / Rare items are dropped in group queue matches and above. Tier 4 / Exotic items are dropped in Community Warfare matches. The best items / most loot are acquired in the toughest content, another common gaming convention.

We all know how PGI feels about introducing new sources of Cbills into the system. It makes sense. So, in order to implement a system like this, it will be important that all items in Tier 2 and greater have a sellback value of 1 Cbill. This prevents Cbill inflation where it's not wanted or needed.

As I'm sure you can imagine, all the different permutations of items that might occur could lead to a tangle of problems on the player side of the equation. A "simple" medium laser could have up to 10 different versions. If I'm trying to get the 15% range increased version, I really only have a one in nine chance of seeing that drop - if I get any drops at all. And that's just one item! Consider the possibilities in a CW match if all the items were on the table!

In order to introduce some sanity to the situation, the potential list of drops in any given match needs to be somehow vetted down. This is a simple fix. The only potential drops from a given match should be based on the items that were used by players in the match. Not what "I" used specifically, but what any player in the match used. So, if no one in the match used an SRM2, it wouldn't be a potential drop in that match. Etc. The converse also works. If I want to guarantee that an SRM2 is a potential drop, all I have to do is mount one. That won't mean I'll get one, it only means I have a *chance* to get one.


The Math

I'll start by explaining the workings at the lowest level, Tier 2 / Uncommon / Solo queue.

Every player in the match has a base 10% chance of receiving a random drop at the end of a given match. Nothing can decrease this number, but many things can increase it. I'm sure that other folks can come up with things that would make sense to add, but here are a few things I would like to see.
  • Being on the winning team gives you an additional 5% chance.
  • Highest match score in your weight class (per each team) gives an additional 5% chance. (In CW, top 4 match scores since weight class changes)
  • Top 3 kill count (per each team) gain an additional 5% chance.
  • Top 3 assist count (per each team) gain an additional 5% chance.
  • Top 3 damage count (per each team) gain an additional 5% chance.
  • Greatest number of scouting bonuses (per each team) gain an additional 5% chance.
  • Greatest number of component destructions (per each team) gain an additional 5% chance.
At most, you can have a 25% chance. Once your bonuses grant you a 25% chance, they stop accumulating.


Once your chance is established, the server rolls the dice. When you get back to the mechlab, if you've gotten a drop, it shows up in a pop up box just like achievement rewards do.

As you move up in Tier, things become slightly more involved. For Tier 3 / Rare / Group queue the same chances and modifiers apply and you roll for Tier 3 items. If you *fail* your roll, your chances are then doubled, and you roll for a *Tier 2* item.

For Tier 4 / Exotic / CW queue, once again, same chances and modifiers apply. Similar to Tier 3, if you fail your roll for a Tier 4 item, you double your chances and roll for a Tier 3 item. If you fail again, you triple the base chance and roll for a Tier 2 item.

The key to this is that no matter what happens, you can only get one item. As soon as your roll succeeds, or you fail a Tier 2 roll, you're done.


The End

That's really all there is to it. It gives everyone a reason to actually play the game. Even when you have your mechs mastered, even when you are in "The 1 percent". There is still a reason to play the game. It also adds more depth to the construction of mechs.

Yes, PGI will need to be careful to watch balance. These items in combination with quirks could be trouble, but frankly, that's what we pay them to do. If they want to continue to get paid, they need to add a reason for players to log in and, you know, play the game.

This system should be super easy and fast to set up. Creating the items might take a couple days, and programming the system a few weeks, but many of the systems they need are already in place. Yes, they'll need to be sure they work hard on the Inventory and Mechlab interfaces to accomodate a greatly increased number of items.

Nevertheless, I feel that the payoff should be worth the time both to PGI and the players.

#2 vonKobra

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 08:26 AM

TLDR: Players can get, as a low chance random drop, a stripped chassis of any mech in the game, including hero chassis without the c-bill bonus.

I think this system your talking about is potentionally very problematic. MWO is at its core a competetive team game, similar to call of duty. Giving items with improved stats as a random drop is very risky, it creates a system where you have to play and grind endlessly not to get cool stuff, but just to be competetive. This would kill a paying player base, since they are paying at least in part as a time convience over grinding c-bills. However I think there is maybe a cooler way to do this, salvaging chassies. this becomes a way that the truly devoted non-paying player can earn things they would have to pay real money for (with high time investment and reduced benifit from paying) and keeps them invested in the game.

One key to remember if you any staff are reading this, your non-paying players should always be viewed as important content for paying players.

The idea is that members on a winning team have a low percentage chance to earn a stripped bare chassis of a mech that was on the other team. When a team win, each member rolls against their chance to salvage. Probably around 1.5% chance for the top scorer on the team, dropping to about 0.1% for the lowest scorer. If they salvage they roll again, determing which chassis they are getting, and then which variant. It should not be the variant used automaticly, because then meta mechs and more prevelant variants will be the main thing earned. It would also allow teams to try to drop in all hero mechs and try to find eachother to game the system.

Hero mech chassis should be included in this salavage, or, more specificly, a variant of it with identical hardpoints, but no c-bill bonus. I see the chance of earing a heromech as being about 10%, with the rest of the variants split over the additional 90%

I think simply to negate the risk of overloaded mech bays a bay should be awarded with each salvage as well.

Important Math:
.15% chance for the top scorer in a match to earn a hero mech, with no equipment or c-bill bonus
.01% chance for the bottom scorer

this means on average, a player that scores top marks in every match they play and wins every match they play will earn a hero mech ever 670 odd matches. This is not a threat or insult to your paying players, and will not drive players away from paying.

I don't know that the numbers I have put down are necessarily correct. I accually feel like it would still be too difficult to earn heros as a non payer, and perhaps the numbers should be better, or the salvage chance lower, but you only ever earn heros.

This is me, as a paying player, saying please support non paying players with the ability to reward time investment with the ability to earn everything paying players can.

#3 Enzane

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 09:45 AM

Just my Two cents here: I think the weapon modules are already an effect of this. If we did away with the weapon modules and simply went with an item drop system it may not be as bad. Simply limit the number of "Uncommon" to "Exotic" items. Make the limits equal to the number of module slots. Personally I agree with Banditman. We need something else to keep us playing. This may be the system to do it, It may not be. Either way PGI needs to add some serious spice to this bland stake. ((For some reason the editor will not accept my "Enter" key. so forgive the bad formatting))

Edited by Enzane, 20 May 2015 - 09:46 AM.


#4 Apathy Enrage

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 11:39 AM

Obviously I'm with Bandit on this one, but I'd also like to point out that the amounts of statistical bonus and the drop rate are subject to change / balance. They don't want to be game breaking, just offer a slight bonus. Along the way that Faction modules work in EVE online.

They're not ridiculous for the most part, and those that are, are so insanely rare that the common player isn't going to ever have one.

Another point I think that is worth highlighting is that CW needs more of a push in attraction. We all know, or at least all SHOULD know that CW was the intended play style for MWO the whole time. I think that PGI has been doing a good job focusing on it and not the pug cue, but there needs to be something more to draw people in, and the chance at finding "Faction" weapons / modules is something that would likely work marvels.

Obviously the pug cue isn't something to be discarded completely, but there needs to be an overall shift towards CW to make it more playable. ESPECIALLY with this new system for attacking / defending. There just needs to be more population playing, and this is one potential way of getting that influx.

#5 Uthael

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 04:40 PM

Call it "salvage" instead of "random drops" and it makes much more sense :P

We have Efficiencies and Modules for that "basic system" part. But, yes, it would be nice to see you managed to salvage a "UAC/5 Cooldown 3" module (fixed at 3 for that item).

If it happens only to the winning team, there will probably be less people trolling or intentionally afk. And if "MonkeyPlayer3000 has salvaged a SRM 4" message is announced to everyone, people will be more enticed to play more. Hopes for an engine from a legged mech or an empty mech chassis once a headshot-kill happens and all internals are intact.

Edit:
However, we do lack a decent proof of player progression. CW pilot ranks are a good example, but it's so badly implemented that many people keep forgetting about it and some are probably unaware it exists.

Some global 0,5/1/1,5/2/2,5% Efficiencies unlocked with GXP would make a ton of difference. Especially if you let the players buy the spent GXP back with some C-Bills in order to re-spec or unlock a module.

Edited by Uthael, 20 May 2015 - 04:48 PM.


#6 50 50

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 06:10 PM

I understand the concept you are aiming for there with different collectables.
But given how much balancing has been done on weapons, quirks and modules, introducing another variable for the base item stats seems like it would upset the whole applecart.
I rather enjoy picking up the little bonuses during the events where you can get a bit of equipment or a consumable as a reward.
That could be introduced into the standard matches and would be more interesting than a straight salvage bonus at the end.

As I see it, expanding on what could be received as a salvage bonus is where it all fits in.
Allowing for the possibility to obtain:
Any interchangeable part (not upgrades) on mech.
Modules
Camo Schemes
Colours
Unique Decals (when introduced)
Cockpit items
Mech bay items (idea from another post that add people, objects and effects to the mechbay)

At a far end it could be stripped mech chassis as vonKobra suggested.

Re the mech chassis, and this could include omnipods for the clan as individual parts, this could be a really engaging way to introduce unique mech variants, mechs with unique geometry, and unique omnipod variants.
Make it so that these items can only be obtained in game by being salvaged so they remain a draw card to playing well.

#7 Vellron2005

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 12:32 AM

View Post50 50, on 20 May 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:

I understand the concept you are aiming for there with different collectables.
But given how much balancing has been done on weapons, quirks and modules, introducing another variable for the base item stats seems like it would upset the whole applecart.
I rather enjoy picking up the little bonuses during the events where you can get a bit of equipment or a consumable as a reward.
That could be introduced into the standard matches and would be more interesting than a straight salvage bonus at the end.

As I see it, expanding on what could be received as a salvage bonus is where it all fits in.
Allowing for the possibility to obtain:
Any interchangeable part (not upgrades) on mech.
Modules
Camo Schemes
Colours
Unique Decals (when introduced)
Cockpit items
Mech bay items (idea from another post that add people, objects and effects to the mechbay)

At a far end it could be stripped mech chassis as vonKobra suggested.

Re the mech chassis, and this could include omnipods for the clan as individual parts, this could be a really engaging way to introduce unique mech variants, mechs with unique geometry, and unique omnipod variants.
Make it so that these items can only be obtained in game by being salvaged so they remain a draw card to playing well.


I agree with this.. the ability to actualy get some item in salvage, be it a common weapon such as a medium laser, ora buy-only item such as a cockpit item or camo... that would keep things a little more interesting.

#8 Banditman

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 06:36 AM

Thanks for the feedback everyone. One of the key points I wanted to be sure I addressed was PGI's extreme reluctance to introduce additional Cbill feeds into the economy. I do understand why they are so reluctant to do so. This is one of the reasons I didn't include what I call "Common" weapons as potential drops. Those weapons do have sellback value, and if they were dropped, I'd be introducing a new source of Cbills into the economy. Likewise mech chassis.

The reason I didn't call this concept "salvage" is because we already have salvage in game. I wanted to be sure to differentiate it from what we already have.

But yes, I think everyone seems to be understanding what I have in mind here. More reason to play the game, because frankly the gameplay can get repetitive and feel "pointless". Sure, CW is supposed to change that, but honestly it's a long way from that point unless PGI has some super secret and major revamp on the near horizon.

I really feel that this system could exist alongside even a fully fleshed out CW feature, and add more stickyness to the game.

#9 sycocys

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 06:54 AM

I'm not opposed to a salvage system in any way, I would just prefer them to actually spend time on making the game something more engaging than "blob towards your opponents blob and fire lasers".

#10 50 50

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 07:17 PM

@Banditman
That's a good point.
I was thinking that if the c-bills for salvage were replaced with the items it would keep the balance.
At the moment with the event rewards we get the opportunity to earn a few million from match points.
I'm not sure it's too big a concern.
The other consideration is the common and uncommon equipment drops are not likely to have much resell value and I wouldn't suggest players get a dozen of them per match. Just something that works out at approximately the same value.
Having the odd rare and ultra-rare item drop as a salvage reward I wouldn't think would be too outrageous. But that prospect of perhaps 'salvaging' something unique from a match is quite an enticing prospect.

On a side note, I've read discussions and suggestions about how contracts could differ for a loyalist and a mercenary.
Having one get a straight c-bill bonus and the other get salvage rights in the form of equipment drops could be part of the contract.

#11 Chuanhao

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 02:23 AM

I agree we need more “goals” within the game other than
  • Experiencing different mechs and builds
  • Levelling mechs to unlock efficiencies (albeit artificially)
  • Achievements
  • Unlocking Modules
  • Attaining CW Ranks

Chance? Nah!!

However, I do not think anything with “chance” should come into play. I am certainly not for any “trading card game” feel to this, especially if chance is the only way I can get something. If something is “rare”, there should be an absolute (but high) price to it, whether its GXP or Cbills or etc,

SOLARIS Yes!!

What I feel is more viable is SOLARIS mode with monthly standings and prizes. Players can vie for ranks in SOLARIS as reps of their respective House stables. Top tier ranked players each month get a boost in Cbills, MCs, etc. SOLARIS games are by nature fast, and their maps small. So its all very viable, fast paced, fun. Not the drone and duration of Community warfare.

In the end, since MWO is not a “storyline” game, if suffers the same as other such games. It has to always find other means to keep the “goal” of attainment of us mortals alive and interesting. CW was a big effort towards this, but let down by the mechanics of finding matches, and the length of the matches in the first place. We need SOLARIS fast.

#12 Greyhart

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 08:01 AM

The idea has merits. However it has to avoid the grind to get the uber version of the weapon.

I think a PvE mode would be very useful and the wok on that would open up more possibilities on the PvP.

there is a need to make the game more dynamic. The current tactic of bash the enemy with as much fire power as possible is limiting. There should be objectives that encourage splitting the team or something.

One of the limiting factors on CW is the queue times. people waiting for a game is off putting especially if you only have a limited time to play. I'd suggest putting an AI wave mode (or hoard mode) in where the player is in say the Solaris arena and has t fight off waves of AI mechs. Then when you join a queue you enter the hoard mode and as other players are added to your team they are added to the arena and you all play until matched against another team in CW etc.

This at least would make the queue less of a problem.

I think pilot (rather than things for mechs) progression might offer something to deal with the issue too, but I am not sure at the moment what that is. Perhaps a class based system for the pilot?

#13 Enzane

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 08:55 AM

Class based systems have been proposed by everyone here. And I know of at least three different people coming up with good Pilot Class Systems. What I'd rather see is altering Tonnage. I really think the number of mechs on a drop should be alterable. Meaning: 8 v 12's, or 4 v 6's. Imagine how epic it would be if it was 8 IS mechs defending a drop zone against 12 Clans, They just have to hold out for 15 minutes. Then the drop next to them will end and more IS mechs can re-enforce them. The biggest problem is there's no context, no "If, Then"s, no "hope" So to speak. There is only the four assaults on one location, If you win, the enemy takes it back. Nothing random, nothing new, just straight fight.





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