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Deep Flamer Thoughts, By Caine


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#1 Mark of Caine

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 08:57 AM

It's pretty darn hot here where I live, and oddly enough, it got me thinking about the Flamer weapon and a possible way of improving it.

And even more surprising, I found myself thinking of a simpler, less convoluted way of changing how the Flamer works without having to go through grandiose mechanics or buffs.

My proposal is to throw out pretty much everything it currently does, even its current damage. In other words, get rid of the entire heat mechanic for both on the player and the target. Keep the range as is, but maybe tweak the damage based on the proposal below.

Proposal: Have the Flamer's damage bypass armor completely, dealing damage directly to internal structure with ZERO chance of causing critical hits. Only when the armor is destroyed by any other means can the Flamer then cause critical hits as normal. This would be akin to when a player overrides shutdown, and the excess heat causes internal structure damage only.

IIRC, the Flamer currently does 0.7 damage per second. This would need to be brought down. What that number would be is up to PGI to figure out; maybe 0.1 or 0.2 per second per Flamer. I dunno, and frankly, that would be out of my hands and would abide by whatever choice PGI makes in that regards. But this new mechanic could potentially (with testing of course) bring back a deader than dead weapon.

I know my 4 Pumas would love me for it.
Thoughts? Constructive feedback?


Edit: Forgot to add, that the new Flamer should definitely land critical hits on trees and destructible terrain, possibly even Omega generators. Testing required naturally.

Except for the trees. No mercy to virtual trees!

Edited by Caine2112, 20 May 2015 - 09:00 AM.


#2 Ryokens leap

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 01:35 PM

Flamers are an anti personal weapon and have no value in MWO currently except as a distraction or goof. Inferno SRMs on the other hand would be a useful replacement as they would apply napalm that would continue to burn and produce heat over a period of time. Down with flamers ( especially on the Adder) unless the Firestarter is nerfed with a pair of them permanently fixed.

#3 Moldur

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 01:45 PM

I like it. They'd still be useless, but at least they'd be as useless as the other useless weapons instead of being negative tier.

#4 Helaton

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 03:05 PM

I also had some flamer thoughts (no pun intended). Flamer Rework It puts it inline similar to above, but is more of a utility weapon.

#5 Mark of Caine

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 09:30 AM

View PostHelaton, on 20 May 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

I also had some flamer thoughts (no pun intended). Flamer Rework It puts it inline similar to above, but is more of a utility weapon.


Yeah I remember reading that thread. Ironically, I'm the only one who replied to it. :lol:

Weird thing is I reread my reply and found myself having completely forgetting I ever made that post with a very similar idea. I really am getting old. :huh:

#6 VinJade

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 10:31 AM

I would love to have something to make that worthless weapon useful. seeing as it is hard mounted on the Adder.
btw does anyone remember if the flamer was actually hard mounted on the actual BT mech?

I don't have my books at the moment and am not a clan player(give me a Thug any day of the week over any clan mech :) ).

Edited by VinJade, 21 May 2015 - 10:31 AM.


#7 Mark of Caine

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 07:56 PM

Yeah the Flamer is hard mounted on Pumas. It was a deterrent versus Elementals and Armored Troops trying to get at the pilot in his cockpit.

But we don't have those in this game, therefore the Puma suffers from an energy weapon that is nigh useless and uses up part of your heat efficiency for nothing.

#8 VinJade

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Posted 22 May 2015 - 04:11 AM

ah I figured as mech.
the Adder should never have had the Flamer hard mounted(what was they thinking back when designing mechs for the board game back then?).

still none the less they should fix the Flamer in some way, ether drive the enemy heat level through the roof or do something like internal damage to the enemy mech.

would make it useful again.

that and or give the Adder a slight buff just for the flamer. I mean it is hard mounted, takes up half a ton, and worthless.

#9 Zephonarch II

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 05:06 PM

I'd prefer it to be like MC2s version of the flamer. It fires once, causes you to basically overheat like a normal PPC in the game... but at least they took that much heat to their mechs internal structure.

But, imagine a team with at least 4 mechs with 1 flamer in it. And they all focused on 1 mech. It'd make rushing frightening but make for Long Range support even more important than it already is now. Because of the over-heating risk just for that 1 guy who took the heat 4, (I guess more) times hotter than than each person who just fired a flamer.

I'm basically saying to change it from a Flamethrower to a Fireball Nuke-Cannon. Not MW3s flamer. Maybe MW4, because it shook your enemy's cockpit when connecting your Flamer shots with it, but mainly more like MC2.

#10 Tiamat of the Sea

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 05:16 PM

View PostCaine2112, on 21 May 2015 - 07:56 PM, said:

...therefore the Puma suffers from an energy weapon that is nigh useless and uses up part of your heat efficiency for nothing.


Uh. I'd just like to point out two things here about heat efficiency.

First of all, heat efficiency doesn't have any comprehensible measurement to it. That makes that number functionally useless. Anyone assembling their 'mech by the heat efficiency rating in the mechlab is using garbage info. Just about the only thing we know about it is that higher is better and that it measures your heat generation when firing all weapons constantly (except the flamer, whose scaling heat rate is not taken into account) against your heat dissipation. If you're actually constructing your 'mech with the intent to constantly fire all weapons over an extended time then it's sort of okay, but nobody can actually tell you what the difference between 1.2 and 1.4 heat efficiency is, so it's useless.

Second of all, heat efficiency has no effect on how likely your 'mech is to overheat in and of itself. That is to say, the effective difference between mounting two ER Large Lasers and mounting two ER Large Lasers and a Flamer is precisely nothing as long as you don't actually fire the flamer. So the impact the flamer has on the heat efficiency of your 'mech doesn't matter anyways unless you intend to actually use said flamer.


All of that said, this idea for flamer alterations looks interesting and I'd love to see it at least tested. You'd have to be really careful, though, or a 10-flamer Nova would be able to near-instantly slag anything from full health. Which would be hilarious, but terrible.

#11 SockSlayer

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Posted 07 August 2022 - 02:24 PM

It is now 2022, I WISH it did currently 0.7 damage, because of that exponential heat gen and heat penalty stupidity, its practically useless now, commenting yet again, buff damage to 0.7 again or at least 0.3. and make range 100m.

Please fix it, after all, everything else has been fixed for the most part.





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