83 replies to this topic

[SnagaDance]

Drake Morgan, on 20 May 2015 - 09:33 PM, said:

Too bad we can't just reboot and start in 3025; now THAT would be fun. Forget the Clan invasion; the core of Battletech is House vs House.

Almost a great idea, but you shouldn't ignore the players who would like to play Clans. So go to 3025 and have 2 different CW locations, access to which is determined by a unit's current allegiance; IS or Clan. Also seperate PUG queues by allegiance. No allegiance? Then you can't be a Clanner really, must be some merc.

Now you no longer need to balance 2 different tech systems with each other (one of them being supposed to be superior to the other!) and everyone can have lots more fun.

[BSK]

White Bear 84, on 20 May 2015 - 05:17 PM, said:

Yes mercs will go to where the bonuses are higher

What? Why? As a merc unit we do not care about these adjustments. They do neither compensate for the lower income because of the shorter contract, nor for all the ghost drops that we have.

These adjustments should ONLY attract the lone wolfs to fill up the gaps between smaller units and compensate for the waiting times that solo players have. Give them twice as many points if they don't have a unit. Make an event that brings the lone wolfs into CW and gives them more rewards the lower the queue. Dropping on a planet with only 12/12, then give them additionally 100%. Dropping on a planet with 99+/99+ then give them only 10%.

I can only hope this weekend we won't get another PUBLIC SOLO DROP ONLY event for owners of the Masakari package ..

[Asmosis]

Ace Selin, on 20 May 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

Rewards as a whole are very poor for CW and now with maybe 100 people all up playing CW it takes hours to get an actual game. If they increased all CW rewards by a factor of 4 (from listed above) they still may not be able to tempt people to play CW.

Shows PGI has no clue!

rewards for winning are fine, you net around 400-600k (without cbill bonuses) its just that losing a CW match nets about the same reward as losing a regular match which is what kills it for the PUG population.

TBH I don't enjoy losing match after match after (no wait only time for 2 matches in an evening) so even if was financially worthwhile to play CW and lose probably still wouldn't bother with it.

Edited by Asmosis, 21 May 2015 - 12:53 AM.

[Gedankenlaser]

RokerSaMoravu, on 20 May 2015 - 11:22 PM, said:

Regardless of whether you play CW or not; why would you at all care about this insignificant change of 50 LPs when you need to grind millions? I mean, there is a difference of a couple of orders of magnitude here! Who the hell cares???

Dude I think what really pisses people off is that there is much to be done to make cw a cool mode ppl will actually WANT to play.
At the moment it is taking too long and the reward is not proportional to the time invested.
That being said I dont think that it will make much of a difference what they changed but one little thing irks me. PGI when you want to INCREASE a playrbase on something then you have to make it more attractive.
I mean ppl will always complain if you take something from them but if the clans need a boost then increase their payouts and only that. Decreasing rewards in a mod that ppl see generally as the most exhausting is just plain counterproductive.
Like a lot of ppl said before me I'd love to see more diversity in the game. Some other objectives than "go there and kill that" or "there are guys coming to kill your objective, kill them first!" would be nice. I was thinking for instance about a Mechwarrior Online version of the classic half life mod "the hunted". One guy is the commander and the others have to protect him and take him to a certain targetpoint. Sure its not easy to balance it but I had a ton of fun with this mod in the old days and my guess is it is somewhat applicable for MWO.
Long story short CW needs more incentive and not a decrease in reward. If there is ANY way you can solve the waiting time issue for pugs that would be a reeeal help too I can imagine.
Peace

Edited by Gedankenlaser, 21 May 2015 - 01:14 AM.

[quantaca]

SteelWarrior, on 20 May 2015 - 06:46 PM, said:

Guess we know where the MS horde will be heading.

well -MS- was IS for 3 weeks so its time to make a change usually we try to switch it up every week. but look at it this way more people in clanspace means more fights for IS because clan population is way, waaaay too low

[James Wirth]

Aff, the rewards are still woefully insufficient to rebuild the "trueborn" Clan population for CW. For the time it takes to find a match in the queue, which lately has taken hours, and then to complete the engagement, I can execute four or five or more public drops and double that 125,000 C-Bills. And the Loyalty points have become a grind after reaching mid-level. So, the CW rewards system at least for the Clans needs to be reviewed and improved significantly.

[Mosadoff]

As an average player I am getting 500-1000 LP per match. Best CW players getting twice more.

If PGI think that this adjustment will revive clans, they are completely wrong.

[Joshua McEvedy]

Drake Morgan, on 20 May 2015 - 09:33 PM, said:

Too bad we can't just reboot and start in 3025; now THAT would be fun. Forget the Clan invasion; the core of Battletech is House vs House.

Agreed. I said this same thing on a similar thread last fall. PGI made its big conceptual mistake in designing the game completely around the Clan War, which adds a huge degree of complexity to the entire enterprise. PGI should have started at 3015 or 3025 with the Great Houses and even the Perphery States and Pirate Kingdoms all deploying the same Succession War technology level and playing on a level field. There would be plenty of fighting to go around the entire Inner Sphere, and not on just one front as is currently happening. After a certain length of time, then PGI could have jumped ahead a few years, first to 3028 when the Grey Death Legion discovered the Helm Data Core (re-introducing Star League technology to the IS), and then perhaps to the War of Andurien Succession and the Ronin War during the 3030s, and the 4th Succession War of 3039, before launching the Clan War in 3049. This could have been done very similarly to how Star Trek Online did with its "seasons" and "episodes" which are very nicely organized.

Is it too late for PGI to start over by jumping back to 3025?

Edited by Joshua McEvedy, 21 May 2015 - 03:05 AM.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Standard procedure I see. Just when I went mechbay grabbing in the clans. Lucky me :]

I'm kinda sad for the house units getting the reward nerf. Maybe it would be 'counterlogical' (mercs generally earn more than soldiers), but the house units should get more $ than mercs, and not be effected with negative reward adjustments. Would be fair. Hope PGI will introduce sth like that in the contract overhaul they mentioned some time ago.

[Tom Sawyer]

I logged onto Team Speak FRR hub last night just to see who might be on. Talked to a few people and not one was playing CW. Most where just pugging.

I then launched Raid Call to see what members of my unit OLD where on. One was there but he was in the AFK lounge.

This was 8:15 EST normally when CW is hopping and everyone is in the que.

I just quit both chats and went to playing Witcher

PGI the writing on the wall is getting grim

[Mi Ro Ki]

Pathetic balancing act. I would be surprised those at PGI would know how to run their own bath.

\o/ Here's certainty no one will be playing cw for IS now, pretty sure pgi just cemented their own fate.

Can't even give me my ECM cataphract gift code after 3 days lol.

[Sjorpha]

A good change. Hopefully this will give us some clanners to fight again, there must be a few mechwarriors out there who aren't obsessed with complaining.

My advice would be to increase the base faction reward significantly, so that it isn't such a minor part of the earnings, and to give it for losses as well to throw a bone to the PUG defenders who lose most matches.

Edited by Sjorpha, 21 May 2015 - 04:28 AM.

[Grazziano]

I am a loyal Davion player, regardless of cbill or LP bonus. So I don't really care what is offered to Mercs to switch sides. They are Mercs, it is what they do. I'm glad when they join Davions as it is always nice to have more people. I'm always interested to see where the Mercs go, but since I'm just as happy shooting a Drac as a Smoking Kitty it doesn't really matter to me what faction they join, just as long as the queue is full. I only drop in CW when I'm in a 12 man, Unit or Davion premade, because I know I will get a drop, contested or not. I can't stand dropping solo in CW, because of the wait. The wait for a group, the wait to see if we have a contest and the wait to fix your dropdeck based on attack and defense. If the wait time is fixed (or eliminated altogether) I would join CW every night, regardless if I'm dropping by myself, with a few buddies from the Unit, or in a full premade and regardless of cbill or LP bonus. Here's one (small) idea to speed things up. We should have the ability to make our dropdecks in the MechLab. Give us two dropdecks slots. One for our 4 mech attack option and one for our 4 mech defense option. Or even more slots (your light rush deck, your long range deck, brawler deck, etc...). So when you are in the CW queue, you can just select Dropdeck Alpha - Attack or Dropdeck Bravo - Defense. Will this speed things up enough to make we want to solo drop in CW? No, but it is a step in the right direction. This will also save people from accidentally taking the wrong mech into battle. Just some of my random thoughts.

[Deathlike]

aniviron, on 20 May 2015 - 08:40 PM, said:

It's pretty funny to see all the shocked Kuritans and Steiners in this thread. When these two factions were hemorrhaging planets in the last beta, it wasn't a problem that they had greater rewards than factions that were ahead. Awww, poor Kurita, you're really in dire need of players to help defend and need the incentive to attract players again! Oh, no wait, you've pushed your only attacker down to nothing but their home planet, and every single clan has lost planets.

I normally should be offended, but let's be clear...

The way PGI is accomplishing this doesn't work, and it's been prevalent around Tukayyid (before and after), especially after the "fix" for how attack-defenses work.

It was a mistake in directly hiring MS for the early going... as there was no need for that... instead of allowing a slow push from the Clans (at least, give them "hope"), crushing them where they stood stopped giving reason to fight a front. Davion isn't even interesting a fight.

It also doesn't help to have a "Daddy Warbucks" spearheading the effort (this is using real money, not fake money like C-bills).

It honestly takes 4 groups of 12 to get an invasion properly going... far higher than ANY active playing faction w/o Mercs. The control through numbers is played out differently and requires more effort to sustain... something every faction is suffering from.

Literally, the map is being controlled by Mercs, and the action happens where the Mercs are going (with whatever "active fronts" exist). I'm not here to disparage Mercs... as they are needed. The problem is that the contracts are global and NOT specific to the # of Mercs that are hired. It's easy to "stack Mercs" on any faction based on the contract... although something like a dynamic CW contract system should allow for "even distribution" of Mercs ACROSS ALL BORDERS to keep the CW population healthy and steady.

The current "fixed contract" system honestly doesn't work as intended, and it is to the DETRIMENT of the game... and especially CW as a whole.

Quote

There is no invasion, there is no incentive to play CW. I don't get what's so hard to understand about the fact that PGI are trying to get people to play in the factions that have no players? Is this a bad, band-aid fix? Sure. But unlike most of PGI's hasty fixes, this one is minor, and easily undone, with precedent for reversals frequently in the past.

One of the problems PGI suffers is the lack of diversity or just GOALS in CW. Yes, I can get those Loyalty Points, but once you reach that rank 20... what is there to do?

Many units move across borders... for their own unit just to collect the "same" bonuses from other factions... but that doesn't really change the overall movement in fighting other factions. It's just to collect rewards... and nothing more.

A lot of units have been burned out... no thanks to CW specific events like Tukayyid.. because at the end of the day, you'll NEVER see this much activity CW otherwise. What you see in those CW events are NOT INDICATIVE of the CW activity in general... and is honestly an aberration.

Have people even bothered seeing where the top Merc units went on Tukayyid? Only 228 stuck in Kurita on Tukayyid due to a "Daddy Warbucks".. every other competitive unit went Clans. Gee, I wonder why.

Ultimately, the state of MWO or CW for that matter is nowhere as it should be, and these reward adjustments do nothing to change the fact that CW is a PITA when noone wants to play it... or ending up being a waste of time since you need "more people" to get planets to change hands.

Even in my unit, we're trying to cancel the contract to move elsewhere (even Clan) just to get fights because not even the Clanners in our sector are fighting back (Clan Davion can burn for all I care ). So, what's the point? What is the goal? Is CW over again?


That is why this entire system as currently constituted is futile, and unless PGI is actively working to improve CW... there's no positive light at the end of this tunnel at the current rate. The only people playing CW are probably the insane... expecting a different result in the current atmosphere.

That is a travesty....

[Bashfulsalamander]

I have played CW since it first came out. I still continue to play CW. Many Kurita House units still play CW. The big Merc units also still play CW. But sadly a lot of the house units on the clan side stopped and the big merc units have went steiner, davion, and etc... As a kurita pilot i still have fun (for the most part) fighting the davions, but it would be nice to fight clan smoke jag and ghost bear again. I hear a lot about how clanners do not play because of the quirk fix, but they stopped playing a week or two weeks before that update. The clan side is not the only side that has gone on the decrease i have noticed a decrease on IS side as well. Sadly if there is no prey for the dragon it will only grow hungry and die, So PGI you need to....

1.) increase LP gain for permanent contract and possibly even make an entirely different rewards bracket for permanent contracts,which give mechs with included mech bays, and maybe even paint camo schemes. ( You are really shafting the house units)

2.) For Merc units I think the Loyalty points should be called reputation points since they are not really Loyal to any house at this time. Also maybe a Merc could give better suggestions as to rewards, but i do not think they should get mechs like a permanent contract could.

3.) Planet rewards, For starters make the big planets like Dieron, Liao, and Marik should have capture rewards such as discount on XL engines, mods, or even select weapons like energy, ballistic, or missiles. ( the problem with this is that there are no "big planets" on steiner or the FRR) But a good thing about this is it could be turned into weekly events in which you close off lets say the kurita border from the clans, steiner, and FRR and allow them to only attack davion for the said planet or a raid on the planet in other words not ownership of the planet.

4.) As much as it pains me to say make something pug friendly i dont know how you can because you already made so many features to adjust that and its their fault for pugging in a unit based game mode, but something has to be done.... maybe on player side? pugs?

Edited by Bashfulsalamander, 21 May 2015 - 06:26 AM.

[Bashfulsalamander]

Continuing from what i said PGI you should also reply more to our concerns on at least your announcement posts. Forums are not for player to gripe to another player, but for player to gripe to DEV's, so at least let us know why you made your decisions and why you reject our solutions. On another side the whole nerfing the clans thing was unneeded, after all giving the IS quirks was to put us at PAR with them, so there should be no need to nerf them. BUT some clan mechs do need a small nerf, or buff to make them more desirable for players, but you will still see the same mechs in CW, because its a competitive game mode in which players will take their best mechs unless they just want to have fun or try something new..

Edited by Bashfulsalamander, 21 May 2015 - 06:24 AM.

[sycocys]

Tom Sawyer, on 21 May 2015 - 03:56 AM, said:

I logged onto Team Speak FRR hub last night just to see who might be on. Talked to a few people and not one was playing CW. Most where just pugging.

I then launched Raid Call to see what members of my unit OLD where on. One was there but he was in the AFK lounge.

This was 8:15 EST normally when CW is hopping and everyone is in the que.

I just quit both chats and went to playing Witcher

PGI the writing on the wall is getting grim

I do the same thing Tom, fire them both up, see none of my friends online - pug a match or two and get bored, because standard queue is insanely boring after 2+ years of no actual development there either, then find something else to do.

Don't even particularly like CW in its current state, just that its more interesting to play than the standard queue, but the lack of development is really killing the mode out.

[ansaniDATA]

Ah Vat Born Clan scum, crying ur Mechs have been Nerfed,, So they moved ur "Easy" Button a little to the left requiring you to put a little extra effort in to press it. So Bring forth your Iron Womb born Pilots, Once ur Women have shaven enough of their body hair off for you to Kiss them goodbye meet us on the field of honor.

You will recognize us we will be the Lances of Mechs held to together with not only the best Duct Tape Bubblegum and Bailing wire we could salvage. But We also will be held together with the Honor of the Brotherhood we have built fighting side by side, a nobility not born of the Vat.

SYSTEMS ON LINE !

[ThatGuy539]

I think most people want to just hop on and play a few games. Lets face it, most people playing this game are at least 20 years old and up. People with commitments...jobs, family, school, etc. They just want to get on and start blowing crap up.

The normal games do well because you can jump on as a PUG or as part of a team and play a few games. And minimal wait times to do it.

CW matches can take up to 30 minutes of your time. (not a huge deal, but may affect some people's decision)
The main issue is finding a match and the time that can take.
The opportunities to get into a game (the number of planets that are available to attack or defend) are limited.
In a normal game you are matched up against everyone out there...one way or another you will get into a match pretty quickly.
In CW you are limited to who you can fight.


It's like a snake eating it's own tail. Few people are playing CW, so there are long wait times, or no opportunities at all. So people stop playing, which makes it worse, and so on.

Maybe what they should do is open it up. Increase the jump ranges, and/or allow access to more borders. Basically allow players better access to each other.

Okay, yes this will break the intended function of the game, and allow clans and IS the ability to attack their fellow clans and houses in odd areas. But it will allow more players access to each other, and therefore shorter wait times and more opportunities for battle. And then hopefully also attract more people to the game.

CW requires a lot of people playing to work properly. Once there is a lot of people things can more easily be tweaked to the way the game is intended to be played.

Basically the ability to get in and get fighting relatively soon is what will attract people to the game. At least that's what would get me playing it more.

Hmm....maybe making the jump ranges dependent on the number of people currently playing would work. So if there are few people, the jump ranges increase, and more people the jump ranges decrease. With a minimum and maximum threshold, so the jump ranges aren't crazy stupid either way.

Then with a few people, at least they will have better opportunities to get into a game, and with a lot more people the ranges go back to normal. The goal being to keep the wait times down, thereby keeping people happy, and hopefully getting more people playing.

Meh, I don't know. I'll keep poking in once in a while to see if there are any opportunities.

[Big Tin Man]

Lots of words are written here. The answer is simple:

PUGS GO WHERE C-BILLS FLOW.

The past couple days I've been rebuilding the bank account running my resistance grasshopper with PT running. Averaging about 250-300k every 8 minutes, even with a 45% heavy queue. Yeah, I make 500-600k in the amount of time it takes to get into a CW drop, and 750-900k MORE during the drop. CW doesn't keep up with this at all.

Yes, during Tukkyyid people saw that you can make an equal amount of cbills per hour as long as you get instant drops. EQUAL REWARDS ALONE IS NOT ENOUGH TO MOVE YOUR PLAYERBASE. CW is a greater risk/reward with the differences between winning and losing are so great. Basically losing in CW is equivalent to getting ROFLstomped in 4-5 public matches in a row.

So please say it again with me:

PUGS GO WHERE C-BILLS FLOW

And yeah, clanners say they are taking a break to cry that the TBR and SCR are now only very good mechs instead of godlike mechs. News flash: they left right after Tukkyyid. Here's a prediction that I will take any bet on: clanners will be back in force right around 1:00pm PDT on June 16th. I checked their schedule, and that's when their dropships arrive.