107 replies to this topic

[Phades]

Kristov Kerensky, on 15 December 2011 - 07:02 PM, said:

Why keep the AC2/5, MG, SL, Flamer, SRM2/4? Simple, they are on the stock Mech configs, they give more options, and they do work on Mechs. They aren't real effective from the dps stand point, but since the BTech game isn't just about dps, their OTHER benefits, like low heat, causing heat on the target or long range, make them effective choices.

They are a waste of tons and space. The only real argument for keeping them is to keep the flavor for the original designs, that is it. Unless of course they introduce mixed arms and add rules that make them make sense in a real time game and can feasibly run through their ammo pools in about 5-9 minutes of intermittent firing, then yeah. Single machine gun would take 33 minutes 20 seconds of constant fire to deplete 1 ton of ammo if directly ported over from the table top rules. AC 2, 7 minutes 30 seconds. SRM-2 8 minutes 20 seconds. You get the idea.

Kristov Kerensky, on 15 December 2011 - 07:02 PM, said:

Ok, ERPPCS! Only need 4 of them to breach the armor, but that's also not enough to actually take core the Mech..and you are in shutdown at this point, heat spike from 4 ERPPCs doesn't give you the option to avoid that, so now you've REALLY pissed off your target AND you are shut down..and the target..it ain't cored, still a lot of IS left there. You can go with 6 ERPPCs, still won't core that Assault, so move to 8..it can be done, did it myself on a Dire Wolf.

If doing TT numbers you need 7 clan ERPPCs and that is assuming you shot at someone with 0 rear facing armor (never happens). If you are doing clan, why bother with ERPPCS anyhow? 10 Heavy medium lasers and an UAC20, with a pulse medium laser for kicks. I have your figures beat, at a lower heat threshold. 100 tonners are slow as passing a gall stone, so meh. Then again, I'm not sure which game you are pulling your data from so...

[Stovebolt]

I enjoy more realistic penetration stuff (see WWIIOnline, etc) but this seems like a really good compromise to me.

[Gaius Cavadus]

Watched the GDC video and I must say that I'm very disappointed that PGI made no attempt whatsoever to iterate or innovate on the traditional amount and locations of damage sections.

It saddens me that shooting an Atlas in the groin or the sternum is the same thing.

Very sloppy IMO.

[Togg Bott]

anyone ever think that all the ac loving needed would be a simple way to switch ammo. load 2 tons of Heap and a single ton of Scatter. use a couple shots of the solids to shatter the armor followed up with a sub-munition round to wreck the internals?

it was easy to do that in TT. but no-one thought about allowing it in the video games.

Give us a more true to life (Yeah i know this is a Sci-fi Game) hit/armor. and allow us the ability to select the type of ammo fired.


*EDIT fer schpellun

Edited by Togg Bott, 27 March 2012 - 03:18 PM.

[Monky]

I agree with the principles behind this post - it would make gameplay full of more tactical choices - do you work on the Atlas' damage left upper torso to get the LRM he's using to pummel your team, or the already damaged lower torso to knock out that AC20, or do you go for a different spot all together?

I think this kind of specificity IF IMPLIMENTED WITHIN REASON could serve to greatly increase the enjoyability of Mechwarrior. It would require some creative license, but a plan like this with a few minor modifications to meet the reality of what already is coded could do nothing but improve the game IMO.

[Gaius Cavadus]

Monky, on 27 March 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

I agree with the principles behind this post - it would make gameplay full of more tactical choices - do you work on the Atlas' damage left upper torso to get the LRM he's using to pummel your team, or the already damaged lower torso to knock out that AC20, or do you go for a different spot all together?

I think this kind of specificity IF IMPLIMENTED WITHIN REASON could serve to greatly increase the enjoyability of Mechwarrior. It would require some creative license, but a plan like this with a few minor modifications to meet the reality of what already is coded could do nothing but improve the game IMO.

I really do hope the devs move on from the CBT damage sections. I don't think it's likely but it would make the game so much better and put all of the mechs on more equal footing as far armor and hitboxing goes.

[Hikaru]

This was bumped why?

More/smaller hit locations = armor becomes less needed = all offense instakills FTW
Some weapons with penetration = min/max dream where the only weapons used are ones with penetration

The OP's conclusion presents a more sim, more "real" damage model, but one that is ridiculously easy to abuse. Everyone would just run around with the highest penetration damage weapons and just aim for the weakest part on a mech that would disable the mech. In response, everyone would build around the "all O, no D" meta.

A balanced solution would be a single armor hit point bar, but with something like a "on damage threshhold, roll for crit at specific location hit." Threshhold would be determined by actual tons of armor, type of armor, and/or max mech tonnage.

[LCRacerX]

I have always been very fond of Renegade Legion: Centurion's TT rules modeling for weapons, ammo, & damage.

http://www.scribd.co...turion-rulebook Pages 6/7 & 17.

Each section of a grav-tank is overlaid w/ a grid of armor that is 10x10. The model of tank you have determines how many rows of that 10x10 grid are actually armored.

Inside of that armor are components. When you take damage, you have cut-out which is over laid the damage grid. Different weapons do different shapes of damage types. Lasers are a vertical line. 200mm armor penetrators have a huge mushroom head shape. Lasers end up being good for reaching into a target, but don't do wide damage. Large caliber rail cannons w/ armor penetrating ammunition are excellent for eliminating chunks of armor.

The best combination, however, was a mix of rail cannons that could take chunks off and lasers which could follow up a devastating blast on armor with a deep-reaching hit on a series of components.

It always felt very real using this system. Never mind that it's very simple & would be easy to simulate in a computer. You also could "see" on your tank's sheet the damage it had suffered.