27 replies to this topic

[Discopia]

Enjoying playing through the latest event and wanted to see what you guys think of an idea. There has been a lot of talk on making seperate solo and group queues for CW. I think it would be nice in the planet info screen, before I choose to defend or attack a planet, if i could see the groupings of the enemy team exactly as it is for your team when joining a queue. Knowing if i'm fighting a 12 man or solo's lets me make the choice on who and if to fight, eliminating most QQ in regards to pug vs pre-made. I feel this would be a fair system allowing your player base to decide how their own CW experience plays out.

What do you guys think?

[Caustic Canid]

I would be for it.

[Tywren]

I'd be for this, but then the premades would start crying because they never get a match.

[Monkey Lover]

Tywren, on 23 May 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

I'd be for this, but then the premades would start crying because they never get a match.

If this way the case then they would need to give bigger rewards until pugs found it worth the risk of fighting 228 or some other group.

More dangerous the fight the bigger the rewards. Pug v pug has the lowest rewards.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 23 May 2015 - 11:56 AM.

[Caustic Canid]

Monkey Lover, on 23 May 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

If this way the case then they would need to give bigger rewards until pugs found it worth the risk of fighting 228 or some other group.

More dangerous the fight the bigger the rewards. Pug v pug has the lowest rewards.

Except pug v pug is actually fun, so it's kind of it's own reward.

[Discopia]

The 12 mans might have some trouble finding matches, it's true. However it might just mean they'll have more success attacking 3 planets as 4 mans? or 2 as 6? Not only that, but knowing it's mostly pugs attacking a planet would encourage me to defend it and allows pugs themselves, along with faction chat, to choose planets on their own to attack instead of just piggy backing on the pre-mades choices. I think the player base would adapt fairly quickly and find a system that works.

[PFC Carsten]

Tywren, on 23 May 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

I'd be for this, but then the premades would start crying because they never get a match.

Exactly. And those are the same people that tell you to join a unit if you don't want to PUG vs 12 pre-mades. This logic is hilarious.

[Monkey Lover]

PFC Carsten, on 23 May 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

Exactly. And those are the same people that tell you to join a unit if you don't want to PUG vs 12 pre-mades. This logic is hilarious.

What I find weird is how 12 man makes you op over night. We beat 12 man teams every day over on the marik house server. We(pugs) all just group up with anyone on the teamspeak and fight. Everyone in marik is welcome no mechs are required and we have lots of fun.

There are really only a hand full of 12 man comp teams you can't win unless you get lucky. Best thing to do is learn as much as you can when they're beating you down haha.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 23 May 2015 - 12:55 PM.

[PFC Carsten]

Some day I'll do the math to explain it. But let the mentioning of 4× 12 assorted, mostly levelled and module-equipped 'Mechs against a chaotic conglomerate of 48 'Mechs (some of which may be trial mechs) suffice for now. Not all 12-men are really hard to beat, granted. But most of them are - depending on the PUG you are dropping with.

[Monkey Lover]

PFC Carsten, on 23 May 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

Some day I'll do the math to explain it. But let the mentioning of 4× 12 assorted, mostly levelled and module-equipped 'Mechs against a chaotic conglomerate of 48 'Mechs (some of which may be trial mechs) suffice for now. Not all 12-men are really hard to beat, granted. But most of them are - depending on the PUG you are dropping with.

I made a post a long time ago about limiting mechs in cw to master level only. I agree if you get 4 new people on your team then fight 12 skilled people it's not going to be good.

[Jabilo]

Whilst both sides in the debate have good points, ultimately whatever side of the fence you are on you have to accept that PUGs will not participate in CW if they are subjected to stomps by units.

If PUGs do not participate then CW cannnot grow.

Some effort needs to be made to make CW matchmaking fairer (or at least perceived to be fairer).

I am having a blast with this event, but I normally do not participate in CW because a fair proportion of time I am matched in a PUG team against strong 12 mans from a skilled unit. I do not mind losing a hard fought game, but an unwinnable match is no fun for anyone involved.

[TWIAFU]

Discopia, on 23 May 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

The 12 mans might have some trouble finding matches, it's true. However it might just mean they'll have more success attacking 3 planets as 4 mans? or 2 as 6? Not only that, but knowing it's mostly pugs attacking a planet would encourage me to defend it and allows pugs themselves, along with faction chat, to choose planets on their own to attack instead of just piggy backing on the pre-mades choices. I think the player base would adapt fairly quickly and find a system that works.

The PUGbase has asked for and given three systems that they do not use now, what makes you think a fourth will make any difference?

[TWIAFU]

Jabilo, on 23 May 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

Whilst both sides in the debate have good points, ultimately whatever side of the fence you are on you have to accept that PUGs will not participate in CW if they are subjected to stomps by units.

If PUGs do not participate then CW cannnot grow.

Some effort needs to be made to make CW matchmaking fairer (or at least perceived to be fairer).

I am having a blast with this event, but I normally do not participate in CW because a fair proportion of time I am matched in a PUG team against strong 12 mans from a skilled unit. I do not mind losing a hard fought game, but an unwinnable match is no fun for anyone involved.

How can you make anything "fair" when unorganized fights organized?

[Jabilo]

That's the whole point, matchmaking should attempt wherever possible to match PUG against PUG and groups against groups.

Perhaps reduce the number of planets that can be fought over so that each planet battle has a population large enough to attempt to segregate groups from PUGs?

[Caustic Canid]

TWIAFU, on 23 May 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

The PUGbase has asked for and given three systems that they do not use now, what makes you think a fourth will make any difference?

Is one of those systems the solo CW queue they've been asking for since the inception if CW?

If not then one more system probably won't hurt.

[Tywren]

TWIAFU, on 23 May 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

The PUGbase has asked for and given three systems that they do not use now, what makes you think a fourth will make any difference?

What 3 systems are you talking about?

Faction Chat? Ghostbears at least are using it; During the event Faction Chat it's how i've found the fastest drops. I just wait for someone to say "Plante X 2 spots left, defenders already waiting", and bam away i go.

In game VOIP? PGI needs to go back and do some tweeking on it, because as it sits now i can't get it to work. I've done tests where i bind my talk key for in game VOIP, and my clans TS server to the same key. While my clanmates can hear me just fine, my words are broken up on VOIP. My best guess is the background noise filter is too sensitive, and it's cutting me off.

LFG? It will just net you 12 pugs, which is the same thing you get most of the time anyway.

[Aresye]

I think the simplest solution to the pug vs group problem is to implement different reward scales based on the ratios and probabilities of group sizes.

At its core, the problem with CW is a lack of population. This sort of leaves CW mostly to the large units that feel an obligation to take over planets, and the majority of the solo player population is comprised of folks who don't have an issue fighting large groups, and those trying to get into CW that absolutely hate fighting large groups that come to rage on the forums later.

The reason for this lack of population is because of rewards. CW is very profitable if you are a 12man facing a team of solo players, whereas it's barely profitable, if not counter-productive to teams of solo players matched up against 12mans.

With queue times, I think it's safe to say that for the average CW match, about 3 regular public matches can be played, thus the basic rewards must be adjusted to account for that. Take all the public match data and find the average earnings for both a loss and a win, and multiply it by 3. Use this data to calculate the set CBill amount each player should get in CW for a loss and win, before scores and faction bonuses are factored in.

Now that we have the base pay figured out for a loss and win, it's time to add a scalable system based off team composition. For a team of 12 solos vs a full 12man, the percentage bonus to base pay should be the highest, whereas if it were the other way around (12man vs 12solos), the percentage bonus would be the lowest. In-between would be all the different team compositions.

Essentially it's making a system similar to the matchmaking system in public queue. This system looks at team composition, predicts which team has the advantage, how much of an advantage, and calculates bonus percentages to the basic win/loss pay so the payout isn't skewed so heavily in favor of larger teams.

This system would promote larger groups to split off into smaller groups to earn more money, and give more incentive for solo players to play CW, even in the face of adversity.

[Triordinant]

This is the real reason for low CW population. Not low match rewards, not the "meaninglessness" of taking planets.

[Ace Selin]

Jabilo, on 23 May 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

Whilst both sides in the debate have good points, ultimately whatever side of the fence you are on you have to accept that PUGs will not participate in CW if they are subjected to stomps by units.

If PUGs do not participate then CW cannnot grow.

Some effort needs to be made to make CW matchmaking fairer (or at least perceived to be fairer).

I am having a blast with this event, but I normally do not participate in CW because a fair proportion of time I am matched in a PUG team against strong 12 mans from a skilled unit. I do not mind losing a hard fought game, but an unwinnable match is no fun for anyone involved.

You really need to join a group then. I was a PUG for life in solo and CW queue, reached level 10 for Davion in only PUG games. Was fun but not always when facing groups, then talked to a few people in FRR, was invited to a group and have had the most fun ever in CW.

[ShinVector]

Discopia, on 23 May 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

Enjoying playing through the latest event and wanted to see what you guys think of an idea. There has been a lot of talk on making seperate solo and group queues for CW. I think it would be nice in the planet info screen, before I choose to defend or attack a planet, if i could see the groupings of the enemy team exactly as it is for your team when joining a queue. Knowing if i'm fighting a 12 man or solo's lets me make the choice on who and if to fight, eliminating most QQ in regards to pug vs pre-made. I feel this would be a fair system allowing your player base to decide how their own CW experience plays out.

What do you guys think?

This 'Might' be a bad idea... There already idiots making posts about being cowards and ejecting from their cockpits, the moment they see a 12man.

Unit and faction tags are already an good indicator.