45 replies to this topic

[Rahul Roy]

Clementine, on 29 May 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

You in 12 man teams play to farm. You are not actually playing to win or be competitive. Lets just clear that bit up.

Easy now, Pat Kell and the KCOM are class acts.

Edited by Rahul Roy, 29 May 2015 - 05:35 PM.

[Leone]

Clementine, on 29 May 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

You in 12 man teams play to farm. You are not actually playing to win or be competitive. Lets just clear that bit up.

How do you know why anyone plays? You clear nothing up. Well, expect for making your own personal opinions very clear and helping me make all manner of unflattering opinions. Here, let me give you an example of what clearing things up is.

I play to have fun. I enjoy brawling. I will often brawl into the enemy as far as possible before losing my mech. I have leveled my Tactics/Mech to a point where I can understand when to halt brawling and find cover, whether to cool off, reposition or wait for allies, in order to prolong the brawling I can manage with that mech, thereby getting more brawling in in one game. Sometimes I can even over come those enemies which do not retreat, and move forward to engage those that do.

Sometimes this means I end up brawling in someone elses spawn, with my closest opponent being the poor mechwarrior who just dropped into my engagement range. Does that clear it up for you?

I don't go into CW planning on spawn camping. I go into CW planning on brawling, and sometimes spawn camping happens.

~Leone, Raid Leader of the Crimson Hand.

Edited by Leone, 29 May 2015 - 10:34 PM.

[Pat Kell]

Clementine, I know you don't like us and I realize that you are probably just trying to start a forum war but your statement is just silly. Of course we play to win which is why we farm. Granted, there are times we could win quicker by taking down the gens but there are some in our unit who want to make the extra c-bills by hanging out and killing the last few mechs. Basically, if they can do it before we kill omega, more power to them. I know you are frustrated by the way the games have went against us but I mean well when I say this, try to get on a team or at least find a TS server that you and some other people can jump onto and talk while playing. Games may still not end up going in you favor but it will end up being better games for you. If your only desire is to flame us, call us names and basically run us down in game and on the forums then I truly feel sorry for you and I will gladly..as you say...STFU. Hope your games are better in the future.

[Timicon]

Hence why most of the time, I tend to leave my last 'Mech in CW events to either a light or a very fast medium. It may not get me out of the kill zone fast enough, but at least their speed buys me a few seconds of life where I can still batter some heads in if possible and not die the instant the drop ship releases my 'Mech.

Edited by Leif Tanner, 29 May 2015 - 10:46 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Anyone who plays with me doesn't have to worry about spawn camping. In fact if they try they put themselves at a disadvantage. I welcome it, Take command and deal with the problem.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 30 May 2015 - 02:37 PM.

[sycocys]

Most 12 man teams expect their opponents in CW to be using the comms and coordinating to provide a competitive match.

Heck most partial teams use TS, Comms, AND text chat to get the strategy across.

When players blatantly ignore the people trying to coordinate the pug/small team groups - It's not the fault of the group on the other side.

[Void Angel]

Every thread on this subject, someone always brings up "well, the match was already over if you're getting spawn camped." This isn't true, but it seems that no force of logic or sympathy can restrain them.

[Pat Kell]

Care to elaborate on your statement Void. Not sure I understand how sympathy applies and logic dictates that if a team has allowed you into their spawn point, knowing full well what the result will be (being spawn camped), then their inability to stop this shows that they are going to be beat regardless. And I'm not talking about pushing real fast to a spawn point and maybe killing 1-2 guys off a dropship, I'm talking about when a team is able to push into a drop zone with 10-12 mechs and sit there for 2-3 minutes killing anyone who tries to push them out. The enemy teams inability to push you out of that area shows that the fight would end the same regardless of the area that the fight occurred. May end up being a closer match and may take longer but the end result would be the same.

[IlKhan Prepaid Kerensky]

I Don't Know Why Spawncamping Is Called A "Tactic". It's Just The Result Of One Team Failing to Play Well.

Backing Off Is Ridiculous. Giving People "A Chance" Is Insulting To Everyone Involved.

The Maps Are Also Ass But That's Not My Problem They Are Ass For All.

[Gerwig]

I will never get pissed at another team for spawn camping, possibly my own team if we let it happen, but that's about as far as I go. With that being said, there is an oversight by PGI that dynamic drop zones would fix.

[BearFlag]

Spawn camping is a serious design flaw in MWO. There is no excusing, no explaining and no justifying it. It simply should not exist. The condition may have its reasons in other games, but in MWO it is positively lame.

NO COMMANDER would order units or elements thereof into a hot zone.
NO PILOT with a brain would bring his ship into a murderous crossfire.
NO MECHWARRIOR but a suicide would drop into such disadvantage.

In short, if BT were real, this would almost NEVER happen.

From what I glean from the lore dropships were not risked except in extraordinary situations. The boats are uber expensive while men, tanks, mechs and atmospheric fighters are cheap. Yes, I know, the dropships are invincible but that's just another sign of jury rigging broken, isn't it?

So far PGI has pursued all the wrong solutions. Invincible dropships. Add more ER Large to those babies. Fix it with the map...separate the drop points and give 'em some cover. Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Asymmetric OOB overlays, selectable dropzones, and many other viable suggestions have been offered in these forums. But the dynamic features that the maps and software desperately needs are apparently taking second place to elements of dynamism that are not critical to game play (ie destructible terrain).

[VXJaeger]

LORD DROPSHIP GGCLOSE!1!!
Meh

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Make there out of bound area for enemy. Very simple. And spawn camping is over.

But do PGI want to stop it ?

[Revis Volek]

Yozzman, on 29 May 2015 - 06:44 AM, said:

True words!

But anyway, 12man vs pugs is in normal drops ****. But in CW it's a multipication...
12 man should fight 12 man period.

NO mm in CW, sorry. They have said this from day one....

Its the map designs that allow spawn camping to be done so easily. Boreal and Sulphurous are the worst offenders but they were also the first maps. Hard to camp on Hellebore because of many reasons. DS can hit you from way out too on that map not to mention the whole time you try to ascend that small mountain to even get to the spawn. Vitric is not that bad to spawn camp but you cant get many peeps in there and only jj mechs can do it from what i have seen. Might be able to waddle a crow up ferret up there.

But like i said, its the maps most the time. Spawn camping is only viable on defense anyway since the kill count is the major deciding factor. Only on an attack that we already won would we spawn camp and even then its only to get a few cbills in for both us and the other team. We try to reserve it for fast matches (under 10mins) when on attack, but most the time we dont even bother. Just get the objective done and let get back in the queue!

Prepaid Lenin, on 31 May 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

I Don't Know Why Spawncamping Is Called A "Tactic". It's Just The Result Of One Team Failing to Play Well.

Backing Off Is Ridiculous. Giving People "A Chance" Is Insulting To Everyone Involved.

The Maps Are Also Ass But That's Not My Problem They Are Ass For All.

Another intelligent post from NKVA....i would have let it slide if you werent a tool and liked your own post. Who are you insulting by letting everyone get kills, cbills, and even event goodies? Just curious?

Edited by DarthRevis, 01 June 2015 - 08:41 AM.

[Pat Kell]

Having an OOB for dropship areas is NOT an answer. People who refuse to fight or think they can sit in spawn and shoot out will prolong matches. You want to talk about real life...where in real life does it say that I in any vehicle of warfare can't go because it's "off limits and if you go there, some mysterious force will kill you". Ridiculous. These proposed changes that I saw though are a step in the right direction, just maybe too much. It amounts to the same thing as having the dropship area OOB as if you get too close, the drop ships will just kill you with quirked ERLL's and 4 times longer to shoot at you. Welcome to the age of reverse spawn camping. I guarantee you that there will be a sizable amount of people who will look at the enemy team, realize that they can not win and just sit back at their spawn area in the hopes that the drop ships will do what they can't. And the enemy will either rush in to try and pick them off or the match will last 30 minutes. Congratulations forum whienrs, you have won and CW should be playable for you again after the 16th...hope to see you all there...camping your drop ships...cowards.

FYI, the new quirk reads as such, each drop ship will have 12 ERLL that are quirked to fire have shorter burn times, recharge faster and hover over the drop zone 4 times longer...and they only aim for CT. Right now, the drop ships are capable of firing 3 volleys each time the drop off mechs or 36 shots from ERLL's. With these new additions, each drop ship will be capable of firing a minimum of 7-8 times (will have to do the math to see how much the quirks will add to this) or 84-96 ERLL shots per drop ship every time they come in. Spawn camping is over, but sitting back in spawn and being cowards...well now, that will work just fine. I want to be clear, I am not advocating for allowing spawn camping but I think a lot of you are going to be shocked by what is about to occur.

No worries though, we will adapt and a month from now, there will be something else for you whiners to gripe about. Who am I kidding...it won't take a month.

Edited by Pat Kell, 01 June 2015 - 11:59 PM.

[sdsnowbum]

One thing to keep in mind is that the dropships should only be a factor if you kill an enemy mech and then you spend 30 seconds loitering around their spawn. In many situations you could always just go for the objectives instead. At the very least you could clear out of the spawn zone.

I do agree that matches could be dragged out...willing to wait and see how often it happens and how badly though. I've already seen that the spawn camping was bad and drove people away from playing.

[Pat Kell]

I'm not sure that this refers to defender dropzones, just attackers as they talk about ERLL's. Defending drop ships use medium lasers. There is no way that they could buff the defending drop ships as they could just take turns ejecting whenever the enemy pushed and let the drop ships do all the work. Also, milling about for 30 secs only applies if you go in immediately after a drop ship leaves, when you take into account travel time, it's likely that you couldn't get in, shoot things and get out in time to be of much use.

[Timicon]

Monkey Lover, on 30 May 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

Anyone who plays with me doesn't have to worry about spawn camping. In fact if they try they put themselves at a disadvantage. I welcome it, Take command and deal with the problem.

Then please tell us, if you will, when you say you 'welcome it' and that the enemy puts themselves at a d'disadvantage' - what is it you do that makes the enemy spawn camping so easy for you to master, when everyone who is everyone I have dropped with, ends up dying the instant their 'Mech is released from the dropship?

[Starwulfe]

Guaranteed there will be people who will sit under the protection of their dropships and waste time.
They already do it on vitric forge unless you have JJs or enough speed to make a run out of bounds and back in.

There must be a way for defenders to win and not have to waste the full 30m.
My suggestion: One minute after the last dropship lands (ie no more mechs coming into that site until more die), if there are still mechs there, artillery should rain until they leave.
That way they have protection from being camped, are given a minute to form up to push out, but are not allowed to just sit back and waste time.

[sdsnowbum]

Pat Kell, on 02 June 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

I'm not sure that this refers to defender dropzones, just attackers as they talk about ERLL's. Defending drop ships use medium lasers. There is no way that they could buff the defending drop ships as they could just take turns ejecting whenever the enemy pushed and let the drop ships do all the work. Also, milling about for 30 secs only applies if you go in immediately after a drop ship leaves, when you take into account travel time, it's likely that you couldn't get in, shoot things and get out in time to be of much use.

It sounds to me like they are indeed upgrading all drop ships. The defender spawn is going to be moved back so attackers won't be forced to expose themselves to incoming dropships if they are going for other objectives.

There is still a possibility that attackers can waste everyone's time by lurking at their own spawns. The trend is that units attack and solos defend so I don't see this happening too often.

Really the concern is counter-attack if an inferior team tries to stay at their spawn. Most likely the team that is ahead on kills will be tempted to fall back to their spawn. This will be the true challenge for good teams - can they snipe or hit and run or deathball or tank drop ships enough to root out the enemies in less than 30 minutes.

Anyone that ejects to summon a dropship is giving up a kill and gambling that they will get something in return. That doesn't seem like a viable tactic. It's like some kind of crazy suicide rush just to drop an artillery strike - you still die and are not guaranteed any damage on the enemy. But I guess we'll have to see.