41 replies to this topic

[Sewman]

Hey All,
I've just mastered a couple of my new Direwolfs, and ’m still testing out all of the tryhard meta builds (mostly UAC and Laser Spam builds - haven't tried guass ppc much). I've read as many guides as I can find in the forums, old and new. Still watching lots of YouTube vids. Piloting the slowest assault is completely new play style for me and it's been the most painful, frustrating mwo experience ever.

I've seen countless screen caps with 1k damage 5+ kill games. How do you guys do it!? I'm talking about the big damage, carry games. Do you play a cautious, opportunistic game? Do you need to have a coordinated team to get the big damage? Are you a late ‘revealer’ or do you hill hump guass-to-the-face right from the beginning? Do you flank?!

I've hit 1K damage with Griffins, Embers, Banshees, timbers, Crows and before they were nerfed, Highlanders and Victors (mostly faster, nimble mechs within their classes). I want to learn how to be dominant, whereas right now I'm piloting a Direpuppy.

Crap Damage & Quick Deaths:
I’m averaging (no joke) 100-300 damage a game, and that’s trying really hard. Basically two or three salvos before getting focused down. I never make it to the end of a match alive and am often killed off early. Both Ct and st deaths. Twisting doesn't protect much in this mech. It doesn't hill hump very well because of its low slung arms. It doesn't peek well because you can't retreat quickly enough.

Worst win/loss ratio (somewhere around 0.60) and worse kill/death ratio (0.7ish) out of any mech I currently own and have recently owned. My banshees might have pushed up my elo but I thought that match maker would have adjusted to my horrible play by now.

Here's what I am trying so far (100% pugs):
-never play conquest
-ask people for ecm cover at beginning
-stick mid pack, never ever lead the charge (Leave that to tankier Assaults, Heavies and some Mediums)
-wait longer in the match to reveal your firepower (longer than I've ever had to wait)
-don't peek, wait until somebody rounds a corner to unload
-push only after someone else does and distracts the enemy fire because they will immediately ignore anybody else once you round the corner in a DWF
-if you're spotted, move positions so lights can't posture up behind you
-you almost have to wait until the end of the match before revealing

Help please, any die hard Direwolf pros. Or do dwfs just suck in today's meta against IS Weapons?

Edited by Sewman, 02 June 2015 - 05:44 AM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Direwolves have a limited range of movement in terms of how far they can torso twist. They can't torso pivot very far to the right or left. This makes them suited to tunnel or narrow lane conditions where enemies are limited in terms of how much they can flank or circle. They do well in the tunnels of crimson straight and arctic city where they're shielded from LRM's and enemies are forced to strand toe to toe.

The limited degree of torso twist and relatively slow turn rates mean direwolves need supporting mechs nearby. A fast moving brawler circling a direwolf can be like an itch that can't quite be reached. You need allies for that kind of thing. Direwolves walking alone tend not to last very long in the wild.

A few LRM launchers, even if they're only LRM-10's or 5's can also help prevent flanking. People have a tendency to run for cover when they see the Incoming Missiles Warning flash. They have no idea whether there are 5 LRM's incoming or 500. They tend to err on the side of safety. As long as they're pinned down and you can keep them in front of you and somewhat neutralize their speed and flanking advantages that could represent a step in the right direction.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 05 June 2015 - 05:03 PM.

[PFC Carsten]

Have been frustrated a bit with my 'whales as well lately trying to bring them up to speed.

What I've found works for me: Don't boat. Sure, Lasers and stuff have much firepower, but you overheat so quickly because you're tempted to carry many more Lasers than you can cool down. Always bring an UAC or two, chain-firing them to keep at least one enemy from effectively shooting back.

Oh, and don't be discouraged by bad matches too easily. 'Whales depend on their team.

[Modo44]

Despite its firepower, the whale is better suited for second line duty, not for leading charges. It can not run or twist to shield reliably, so it needs others to draw attention away. If you have a group or unit, that is easy enough to set up. If you play solo, you need some luck. Either way, careful positioning -- near good cover, with long lines of fire, in the middle of the team -- is crucial.

Edited by Modo44, 07 June 2015 - 02:05 AM.

[KuroNyra]

4 Medium Laser
2 Large Laser
2 Gauss.

Enought ammo and Heatsink and your good to go.


That guy can lead charges if he is covered and not alone.

he can also be used has a second line Omnimech but that would be putting his armor at bad contribution.

Edited by KuroNyra, 07 June 2015 - 02:10 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Sewman, on 02 June 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

Hey All,
I've just mastered a couple of my new Direwolfs, and ’m still testing out all of the tryhard meta builds (mostly UAC and Laser Spam builds - haven't tried guass ppc much). I've read as many guides as I can find in the forums, old and new. Still watching lots of YouTube vids. Piloting the slowest assault is completely new play style for me and it's been the most painful, frustrating mwo experience ever.

I've seen countless screen caps with 1k damage 5+ kill games. How do you guys do it!? I'm talking about the big damage, carry games. Do you play a cautious, opportunistic game? Do you need to have a coordinated team to get the big damage? Are you a late ‘revealer’ or do you hill hump guass-to-the-face right from the beginning? Do you flank?!

I've hit 1K damage with Griffins, Embers, Banshees, timbers, Crows and before they were nerfed, Highlanders and Victors (mostly faster, nimble mechs within their classes). I want to learn how to be dominant, whereas right now I'm piloting a Direpuppy.

Crap Damage & Quick Deaths:
I’m averaging (no joke) 100-300 damage a game, and that’s trying really hard. Basically two or three salvos before getting focused down. I never make it to the end of a match alive and am often killed off early. Both Ct and st deaths. Twisting doesn't protect much in this mech. It doesn't hill hump very well because of its low slung arms. It doesn't peek well because you can't retreat quickly enough.

Worst win/loss ratio (somewhere around 0.60) and worse kill/death ratio (0.7ish) out of any mech I currently own and have recently owned. My banshees might have pushed up my elo but I thought that match maker would have adjusted to my horrible play by now.

Here's what I am trying so far (100% pugs):
-never play conquest
-ask people for ecm cover at beginning
-stick mid pack, never ever lead the charge (Leave that to tankier Assaults, Heavies and some Mediums)
-wait longer in the match to reveal your firepower (longer than I've ever had to wait)
-don't peek, wait until somebody rounds a corner to unload
-push only after someone else does and distracts the enemy fire because they will immediately ignore anybody else once you round the corner in a DWF
-if you're spotted, move positions so lights can't posture up behind you
-you almost have to wait until the end of the match before revealing

Help please, any die hard Direwolf pros. Or do dwfs just suck in today's meta against IS Weapons?

This build, on my DWF Prim has been the most devastating one for me. When I run it, it chews up everything in sight. Especially since I can remove almost any section on an enemy mech with one alpha. It's hot as hell, but the Gauss are there to pick up the slack when it gets toasty. Never fire an alpha unless you're going to ruin someone's day. Also never fire an alpha at anything beyond 600 meters.

[KuroNyra]

IraqiWalker, on 07 June 2015 - 03:03 AM, said:

This build, on my DWF Prim has been the most devastating one for me. When I run it, it chews up everything in sight. Especially since I can remove almost any section on an enemy mech with one alpha. It's hot as hell, but the Gauss are there to pick up the slack when it gets toasty. Never fire an alpha unless you're going to ruin someone's day. Also never fire an alpha at anything beyond 600 meters.

ROFL! It's my build minus 2 medium laser!

KuroNyra, on 07 June 2015 - 02:09 AM, said:

4 Medium Laser
2 Large Laser
2 Gauss.

Enought ammo and Heatsink and your good to go.


That guy can lead charges if he is covered and not alone.

he can also be used has a second line Omnimech but that would be putting his armor at bad contribution.

Edited by KuroNyra, 07 June 2015 - 03:28 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Playing smurfy building a DWF is so much fun because it can cram so many weapons. Should I buy one?

[IraqiWalker]

KuroNyra, on 07 June 2015 - 03:27 AM, said:

ROFL! It's my build minus 2 medium laser!

You mean plus 2 medium lasers XD.

It's a terrifying beast. Those ERLLs reach to the ends of the earth, along with the Gauss. While the MLs roast everything in between.

Hit the Deck, on 07 June 2015 - 04:05 AM, said:

Playing smurfy building a DWF is so much fun because it can cram so many weapons. Should I buy one?

It's not an easy mech to pilot. Even harder to control since you are tempted to just alpha someone in the face, with all that firepower.

[Zordicron]

Dont lead the charge. Try to keep up with your team, but let them lead.

DWF is similar to an Atlas: Surprise Atlas is best Atlas.

What that means is, you need teammates to locate your targets, and you need to get really good at awareness of the field, and positioning. You emerge and wrekz on an unprepared target. DO NOT HILL PEEK. if you do peek, you only get one shot. Once you are spotted, the enemy is going to note your location and I assure you, at least one of them is going to set up camp to watch for you to try it again.

best bet is to move through some cover with your team, let some one else engage, and then move in to obliterate their target. once said target is neutered, do not get greedy and go for the kill on a stick mech. you are too hot, and too potent to waste time on that head laser only HBK. Look for the next victim, and unload into that one.

basically, you need to conserve your surprise factor for when it counts, and control your firepower to apply it to the most beneficial targets.

Best case scenario: you team with a light pilot like me, that runs spiders and FS9 as little hate magnets in berserk mode. light mechs in this game make FAR better front line dmg tanks then 50kph assaults do. Not because they eat the hits, but because MISS and dmg spread. Having a berserker spider get the enemy DWF all off kilter is perfect for you to step up, and blast half that enemy DWF off before it even knows what is going on. Neuter, and fade to cooldown, select next target.

you wont get "all teh gloriez" from epic kill counts, but you will WIN, and you will get a very good match score and c-bill earnings to boot. Blowing ST off in record time is what DWF does best. Pick a target, KNOW the target(at least enough to say like that hellbringer has ECM in LT for example) blow a ST off to eliminate a lot of firepower or an ECM etc, cool off. If the occasion is there to just lay into a CT, like say against a medium, do that instead.

Again, and this is important, it is MUCH better to fade back and cool off and gimp an enemy, then to push out for a kill against some useless stick and expose yourself to focus fire, or worse, overheating. Your team mates, if they cant finish off the stick with one of their 140kph mediums or lights, there isn't much hope for the win anyway. One thing you can always rely on in a pug team: the bloodlust for "teh EZ killz" of your pug mates.

[ProfessorD]

Sewman, on 02 June 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

... UAC and Laser Spam builds ...

...
I’m averaging (no joke) 100-300 damage a game, and that’s trying really hard. Basically two or three salvos before getting focused down. I never make it to the end of a match alive and am often killed off early. Both Ct and st deaths. Twisting doesn't protect much in this mech. It doesn't hill hump very well because of its low slung arms. It doesn't peek well because you can't retreat quickly enough.

Worst win/loss ratio (somewhere around 0.60) and worse kill/death ratio (0.7ish) out of any mech I currently own and have recently owned. My banshees might have pushed up my elo but I thought that match maker would have adjusted to my horrible play by now.

Here's what I am trying so far (100% pugs):
-never play conquest
-ask people for ecm cover at beginning
-stick mid pack, never ever lead the charge (Leave that to tankier Assaults, Heavies and some Mediums)
-wait longer in the match to reveal your firepower (longer than I've ever had to wait)
-don't peek, wait until somebody rounds a corner to unload
-push only after someone else does and distracts the enemy fire because they will immediately ignore anybody else once you round the corner in a DWF
-if you're spotted, move positions so lights can't posture up behind you
-you almost have to wait until the end of the match before revealing
...

No, Direwolves don't suck. Direwolves are really fickle in solo queue pugging, though. Others have already said that they depend heavily on their team in many situations for many reasons. It obviously follows that they perform well much more reliably when you bring a group. A good group with 3 properly built Direwolves can be devastating.

You look like you're actually trying to do a lot of the right things. A couple to reinforce:

== Peeking really just isn't a thing with Direwoles. They're too slow to back into cover after firing. If you're going to step out to fire, keep firing until the target is dead.

== This means that there is a massive premium on timing that step well. If you do time that step such that your teammate has already engaged the enemy with an alpha to the CT, and you can step out with an additional alpha or two to secure the kill, you'll do well. This is a huge part of how those other folks you're seeing secure those games with 1k damage and many kills. Those people are timing steps like these properly many times per match. I think this is very similar to the technique Eldagore proposed above.

== Never miss an opportunity to camp yourself at the end of a straight, narrow path the enemy is funneled through. This can give you opportunities to superior DPS to maximum effect.

== Never miss. You sound like you already noticed that you don't necessarily get a second chance if you fail to secure the kill when you step out. I think a whole lot of mech pilots fail to appreciate how often they miss. It turns out, practice is a thing. Making a friend and testing your Direwolf against theirs in a 1v1 private lobby match could shed some light on how reliably you really are hitting your target.

[Havyek]

2 GR
2 LPLAS
2 erMLAS

Profit.

[Sewman]

Great feedback guys - thanks a lot.
In particular, I think that I learned just how unbrawly the DWF is. It now makes sense why I was dying so often and early. I don't think I've ever really grasped how patient you have to be with the playstyle of the 'surprise' assault.

Tunnels/Funnels
I would have never parked in a tunnel or a funnel area before, probably because I was always losing those trades. It never occured to me that it was because DWFs were typically on the other end of the tunnel. I now understand how that's an example of playing to the strengths of the Chassis.

Saving Heat
I was also glad to learn about trying to focus on disarming mechs rather than going for the kill shot. This is a slight adjustment from my previous mindset which was to try and kill a target FAST before retreating. I thought that I was using my DPS to my advantage, but what I was actually doing was just overheating too often and never really finishing the target before 3 enemies would take notice and take a chunk out of me before I could retreat.

Camping & Avoiding Peeking
I HATE camping. I've always hated that play style. I'm too twitchy, too eager to get the brawl started. This is probably why I've had such a difficult adjustment.

I even prefer LRM boating to camping because I feel like it can be a good challenge in map awareness and thinking ahead in order to find clear arcs for those LRM in order to get those really high damage numbers. But I guess I'm going to have to learn to enjoy camping in order to do well with the DWF.

Sidenote: The things I learned from this thread might apply well to other DPS or Sniper centric mechs that are a bit on the fragile side like Jagermechs, HGN-732, Ilya-Muromets!

[IraqiWalker]

The Jager mechs, and King Crabs are great examples of mechs that function like the DWF.

The DWF serves what is known as a "Juggernaut" role in TT. Where the other mechs in the formation herd the enemy mechs into it's firing line, and the DWF does the killing. It has very restricted torso movement so areas where it doesn't need to move it's torso (like tunnels) are where it excels. It can't roll damage that well, so it really shouldn't brawl (to the point where an Atlas can, and in many cases WILL, out brawl you.)

You have immense firepower, but it's best used in stand off ranges (500 Meters+), and because your opponents will be forced to stare you down, you can win the engagement simply because you're 100 tons, and have more armor for them to go through. (The Dual Gauss + Lasers builds are great examples of mechs that can handle snap firing, and stare downs very well) I sincerely doubt there is a mech in the game that can match the DWF in DPS, but the DWF loses in burst damage to plenty of mechs. Burst damage has always been the domain of short range battlemechs, so if you keep your enemies away from short range, you are either engaging at equal footing, or the odds are in your favor.

[Zordicron]

Just ran a match with my DDC in FC last night. This same thing applies there. Your ECM is valuable, but having a 75 point alpha makes it so something will have a bad day.

We set up in the usual spot near the arch, and I stood a little to the side. Couple enemy took turns poking around the corner trying to get a shot. One phract did it twice, well that was it for him. Dragon, splat. Warhwk, splat. Now, none of those shots were kills. But all of them exposed ST internals, the phract lost half his weapons and was a couple SL shots from dead. I took minimal return fire.

i did not pursue, or push in for some charge into a crowded arena where I would get focused. You must be cautious. let the team move around at twice your speed along the fringes to locate enemy movcments, and keep aware of the field. After while you will get a feel for where you need to position as "the wall".

[Robot Kenshiro]

I run:
2 Gauss
2 ER PPC
4 Small Laser.
with modules or ER ppc and gauss anything within 720m gets a heavy punch. I'm able to launch 3 heavy salvos before cooling off a bit for the next Salvo.
Dmg gains:
Good team/match 800-1000+
Bad team/bad match 200 or less or even less if your team abandons you.
I tried ER Large lasers but due to my ping my hit reg isn't working well. So I opted for the ER ppc for the instant dmg it delivers plus the added splash dmg works quite well in most cases.

[DONTOR]

Sewman, on 02 June 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

-wait longer in the match to reveal your firepower (longer than I've ever had to wait)
-you almost have to wait until the end of the match before revealing

I have never heard of, or abided by these rules, and my DWs are by far my best mech stats wise. All 3.0 or higher, but the best one is the DW-S with above a 4.0 KDR.
The additon of JJs to the chassis is a must have! I always used Radar dep. and the hill climb module on my non JJ DWs and that worked very well for me ascending hills was much easier, and I didnt have the stuck on pebble problem many have complained about.
BUT the JJs on the DW-S allowed me to free that module spot up for target info gathering, or whatever you would prefer, sesmic and so on.
I like to run 2 JJs as thats enough to get on some higher buildngs, and plenty for turning quicker to protect your rear.
Also your rear armor should be quite low once they are fully elited, because the min. internal HP on a side torso is 44 so nothing is going to have an easy time killing you from behind aslong as you have some awareness.

I run 4 rear armor on all portions, very rarely has that failed me.

and here is my actual build... its VERY nasty.

Hit the Deck, on 07 June 2015 - 04:05 AM, said:

Playing smurfy building a DWF is so much fun because it can cram so many weapons. Should I buy one?

YEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by DONTOR, 09 June 2015 - 01:28 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

DONTOR, on 09 June 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

I have never heard of, or abided by these rules, and my DWs are by far my best mech stats wise. All 3.0 or higher, but the best one is the DW-S with above a 4.0 KDR.
The additon of JJs to the chassis is a must have! I always used Radar dep. and the hill climb module on my non JJ DWs and that worked very well for me ascending hills was much easier, and I didnt have the stuck on pebble problem many have complained about.
BUT the JJs on the DW-S allowed me to free that module spot up for target info gathering, or whatever you would prefer, sesmic and so on.
I like to run 2 JJs as thats enough to get on some higher buildngs, and plenty for turning quicker to protect your rear.
Also your rear armor should be quite low once they are fully elited, because the min. internal HP on a side torso is 44 so nothing is going to have an easy time killing you from behind aslong as you have some awareness.

I run 4 rear armor on all portions, very rarely has that failed me.

and here is my actual build... its VERY nasty.



YEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do you have 6 armor on your rear ST, but only 4 on the RCT?

[Not Bob]

The biggest thing about piloting a DWF and being successful is positioning. The slow torso twist makes it hard to engage anything slower than a heavy. Try to keep your back to a wall or a friendly an assault mech, that way you don't have to worry about a sneaky light or medium forcing you to twist oddly to hit it.

Another thing that makes these mechs successful is knowing how to maneuver it. Don't try to go forward and turn to engage quick mech, go in reverse and turn the oppoiste way of the mech facing you, that way he's in your front arc as much as possible.

Another thing that really helps the DWF is use pinpoint, or quick DOT weapon, like the new Clan UAC, or SPLs so you can have a quick shot and twist so you can spread your damage some.


Remember the DWF doesn't brawl as well as it seems because it is big and slow, and actually has a rather large front. Use it more of a second line mech. Don't stand back and snipe, it doesn't help your team.


If you want builds, let me know, I got a few that have worked well for me.

[Ultimax]

Here is a Gauss+Laser variant I run, it's a little different from the typical build.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c540f9c529b756d



I like this version because those high mounts in the STs are pretty invaluable - they let you poke over hills or shorter friendly mechs.

It costs you a bit extra tonnage for the JJs, but I find the 2 JJs pretty good overall and mitigate one of the only weaknesses of the DWF (agility).


This build is a patient build, your job is to punish mistakes hard. - so generally you want to be in the back a bit to maximize your field of fire, but as a 100T assault mech you also need to know when you have to push and lead the team.