150 replies to this topic

[Warfarer]

So which is it? I thinking its catapult.

[Alistair Winter]

Depends what you mean by 'boat'. As many LRMs as possible? AWS-8R or HGN-733 are the best. If you've got a good team, the AWS-8R with 4xLRM15+Artemis is just vicious. But it's pretty helpless on its own.

The Catapult C1 is great with 2 x LRM15+Artemis, TAG and 2 LLs, but it's not really an LRM boat.

The Catapult A1 can't really do too much that the AWS or HGN can't do better. It sacrifices firepower, TAG and armour for speed.

[CheeseThief]

Depends how you want to boat LRM's.

If you want an effective mid range fighter that can choose it's distance, move around obstacles and get locks while running away, then the Griffin is a fine LRM boat.

If you want to put a serious amount of missiles down range and rip the CT out of a Daishi in short order, then a Stalker is the mech for the job.

If you want to be completely autonomous missile boat and back up your missiles with your own NARC because your team mates are unreliable dipsticks who can't hold a lock, then the Stormcrow is a good choice.

If you want to troll the stuffing out of the enemy with lots of LRM5's, then you want the Kintaro.

And if you just want something that is versatile, with a few tubes, a few jumpjets, a few lasers backup and half decent mobility. Catapult.

[Charlie Brumfield]

War hawk can do lrm 70 with assult level armor, 3x mplas, and tag. But for my cbills the cat a1 is king. You just need to be smart when you drive it.

[Wintersdark]

Charlie Brumfield, on 13 July 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

War hawk can do lrm 70 with assult level armor, 3x mplas, and tag. But for my cbills the cat a1 is king. You just need to be smart when you drive it.

Gah. No.

The Warhawk is grossly limited by Clan LRM's, which are flat-out bad compared to IS LRM's. The staggered firing allows MANY LRM's to be destroyed even by a single AMS unit. Two or three and you literally do zero damage to a target in the open. And, look! ECM+3AMS kitfoxes abound. Welcome to being totally useless.

The Catapult is a decent LRM platform, but in no way one of the best.

You want:

IS mech (for LRM's firing in a single burst) and large tube count. HGN's are capable, AWS 8R's as well, STK-3H is king. Push through AMS, hit absurdly hard.


As skill levels improve, though, LRM's become ever less useful. You start to need fast LRM platforms, such as the Griffon, and to sacrifice tube count for ability to rapidly reposition in order to keep a good firing angle on your target.

[Modo44]

The Scarecrow can easily take 2xALRM20 or some other combo with good backup weapons, cooling, and ammo. It goes past 100kph for easy relocation, and is damn hard to hit. Clan heavies and assaults can take more missiles, but then you lose their real power, which is stupid DPS from energy weapons.

For example, casually LRM45 -- TAG and ammo included, 450m optimal range backup lasers. You can also take 4xERML with lower LRM numbers, which is probably even more ridiculous. Either of that would require an Orion to come close using IS tech (remember that 3xERML == 2xLL minus 7 tons).

Edited by Modo44, 13 July 2014 - 07:18 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

heres some options

As for best LRM boat, you are looking at the Stalker-3F

https://docs.google....343bbf112_14417

[LauLiao]

My own personal favorite is the Battlemaster S w/ 2 x aLRM 15, 2 x aLRM10, 3 medium lasers, and TAG.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

I am just gonna leave this here: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...abd0d8633302716
Lots of lrms, artemis, lots of ammo, lots of backup weapons, tag, bap, lots of dhs (totally heat neutral while firing lrms, even on hottest maps). You wanted king lrm boat. You got it.
Now if you arent a clanner: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1373c563453c9e1
Not ALOT of lurms but can be alphastruck, close to heat neutral, and ALOT of ammo. Bap, tag, ams.
Slow, but there is an xl version: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...096c1bc6a11c1e4


Having access to amazing lrms mechs is one thing, doing well in them is another.

[Hex Pallett]

No comment on Clan LRMboat, but regarding IS, whoever said otherwise has clearly never used a Battlemaster 1S before.

[SethAbercromby]

Catapult is the most versatile missile platform. A1 is king of missile spam (penta LRM10 + NARC = FUN), C4 can carry some backup weapons and while the C1 can't spam missiles, it is the only Missile varaiant than can actually defend itself properly.

[Kjudoon]

Warfarer, on 13 July 2014 - 06:33 AM, said:

So which is it? I thinking its catapult.

IS mechs only because I don't run Clan mechs.

Light: Oxide JR7-O 4 missile slots high speed give it an incredible advantage in this, but suffers the same fate as a CPLT A1 once the ammo runs dry. The close next best would be a JR7-D with 2 missile hardpoints. The commando is just too darn light, otherwise it'd be right in there.

Medium: Kintaro KTO-18 2 Energy 5 missile make it the ultimate medium LRM5 troller. The SDH 2D2, GFN 3M, and KTO-19 are right behind it, but just lacking that little extra something. I love my KTO-19 with an ERLL/ML/TAG backup for 4LRM5's with Artemis and a huge engine... but I still have to give the edge to the KTO-18 for pure LRMboatiness.

Heavy: Orion ON1-VA I love my CPLTs at times, but none of them... NONE of them perform even close to my favorite missile mech even with similar builds. It is tougher, barely slower and lacking jumpjets, but with the speed and armor and extra ammo, it more than makes up for it. Otherwise, I'd look at the CPLT C1 as a jumpy, squishier version of the VA.

Assault: Battlemaster BLR- 1S They are harder to kill, faster moving and generally a bigger pain in the tuchus than any Stalker, Highlander, Atlas or Awesome toting missiles. The Missile master is on me 'to buy' list because of how many fits it gives me facing it.

You can't say 'what's the best of all', because each weight class has it's own balance.

Helmstif, on 13 July 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

No comment on Clan LRMboat, but regarding IS, whoever said otherwise has clearly never used a Battlemaster 1S before.

Problem with your video Heim. I was looking forward to seeing you run a Misslemaster. I don't get to ride shot gun in high quality player cockpits too much so I jump at the chance to see what I can learn in those pilot houses.

Edited by Kjudoon, 13 July 2014 - 08:35 AM.

[Orbit Rain]

Kjudoon is so right on the mark with each weight class. The TW is now my go to lrm monster though (only have TW &DW's, can't speak to the other clan mechs) plays like a VA, but better. Drop 55 bucks on that if you can. Before that I would grind massive damage and cbills with a BLR-1S. The A1 will teach you situational awareness like no other mech too. If you don't want to drop the cash, go with the Orions.

[Spheroid]

Battlemaster-S.

[Kin3ticX]

LauLiao, on 13 July 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

My own personal favorite is the Battlemaster S w/ 2 x aLRM 15, 2 x aLRM10, 3 medium lasers, and TAG.

added to my list

[Vimeous]

As you can see there are many fine options depending on your playstyle preference

Wintersdark does hit upon one truth:

Quote

As skill levels improve, though, LRM's become ever less useful. You start to need fast LRM platforms, such as the Griffon, and to sacrifice tube count for ability to rapidly reposition in order to keep a good firing angle on your target.

Maintaining fire while adjusting to a changing battlefield make Medium boats like the Griffin 1N and Kintaro 18 especially effective. If you are good you'll be hunted down mercilessly but you should use this to kite aggressors into the waiting arms of your fellow warriors.

I find it odd I don't think of the Catapult first when talking about lrm-boating, it is after all the historical choice. For me it is missing a final sparkle - not fast enough to loose defensive weapons yet not enough tonnage to carry enough ammo and backup guns. The ON-1V with 3xALRM15 and XL300 works better for me.

When building your boats a general rule is 1t ammo per 5tubes. This should give enough ammo to last a match but equally not waste tonnage by not using all of it.

My personal favourites in addition to those above include the KTO-19, JM6-A, and AWS-8R.
I have the HGN-733, BLR-1S and Stalkers but am far more successful with the Orion and Awesome because of their speed and manoeuvrability.The slow assaults work far better in organised groups where their mobile-turret characteristics can be mitigated and used as bait by your fellows.



As for Clan mechs.
- Well the Kit Fox and Adder make surprisingly handy lrm platforms but you can't forget they're lights so support only and don't expect may kills.
- I'm just starting the mediums so I'll steer clear there.
- I ran a pure Summoner-B for the first time last night and it was hilariously awesome. Think Kintaro/Orion cross with JJ's but no defensive weapons.
- Timber-Wolves are not really boats - they're too good at other roles and their layout makes the ammo needed vulnerable.
- I do like the WHR-B as a boat though. It suffers like the bigger IS boats with manoeuvrability and the TBR's ammo in the arms but isn't too shabby for a Clan boat. I've had some success with this build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0019f64171fb846


There is so much choice why not try them all!

[Aegic]

Catapult LRM mechs will come into their own once CW and tonnage limits are implemented. Then it will not be about choosing the best mech for LRMS, it will be about taking a Catapult to save on tonnage so you can take perhaps an Atlas instead of an Orion as a brawler while still having decent LRM coverage.

[Wintersdark]

Kin3ticX, on 13 July 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

heres some options

As for best LRM boat, you are looking at the Stalker-3F

https://docs.google....343bbf112_14417

3H is better. The 20-tube arm launchers more than make up for the loss of torso twist (much less important on a missile boat), allowing you to front-load more damage. You can also optionally run a LRM50 setup (2x20 2x5) and fire all 50 in one massive crump.

But, yeah, the BLR-1S is a better missile boat than the stalker, I often forget about it because I haven't run many assault missile boats since before the phoenix pack

SethAbercromby, on 13 July 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

Catapult is the most versatile missile platform. A1 is king of missile spam (penta LRM10 + NARC = FUN), C4 can carry some backup weapons and while the C1 can't spam missiles, it is the only Missile varaiant than can actually defend itself properly.

It's just not. The A1 is only good at 6xLRM5 (4 10's? Ghost heat, more spread, slower cycle)
The C1 is just as good as the C4, really - at that point, you're running a pair of ALRM15's, generally speaking.

It's absolutely not the most versatile missile platform. It perhaps should be, but isn't.

The A1 doesn't really offer anything that some 55t mediums can do much better (lack of E hardpoints is too crippling), and the C1/C4 are not particularly better options than the Orion or Jagermech missile boats in the Heavy range.

The Catapult is not spectacular, but it's not bad either. Ultimately, though, there simply are better choices.

In terms of heavies overall, the Orion simply dominates as a missile platform.

Aegic, on 13 July 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Catapult LRM mechs will come into their own once CW and tonnage limits are implemented. Then it will not be about choosing the best mech for LRMS, it will be about taking a Catapult to save on tonnage so you can take perhaps an Atlas instead of an Orion as a brawler while still having decent LRM coverage.

No. Because if you're looking to save tonnage, a Kintaro or Griffon medium platform is simply superior to the Catapult, while maintaining the same LRM ability with increased mobility and reduced tonnage. Really, these are the kings of LRM's today>

Incidentally, this is the strength of the BLR-1S missile platform - unlike other assault LRM boats, it can be highly mobile. Mobility is critical for LRM boats, absolutely critical.

Running a slow, static missile delivery mech is only useful against very poor players.

[Kell Morgan]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a5a13f08249d243

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bec7acb41bdfe97


Fun for S&G

Edited by Kell Morgan, 13 July 2014 - 01:46 PM.

[Navy Sixes]

Vimeous, on 13 July 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

Maintaining fire while adjusting to a changing battlefield make Medium boats like the Griffin 1N and Kintaro 18 especially effective. If you are good you'll be hunted down mercilessly but you should use this to kite aggressors into the waiting arms of your fellow warriors.

Well said. A medium with LRM30 and 5+ tons of ammo is really where it's at. Those big-tube dedicated LRM assault-mechs are really wasting tonnage (with 4x3, you really want assault armor/direct fire potential up front. I drop into a PUG match and see 2 Stalkers that want to stay in the rear and I think, "Oh, well. GG." I've been pleasantly surprised, but usually, I'm right.). Firing all of those tubes off at indirect-opportunities eats through your ammo pretty fast, often without hitting anything. Then once your bins are dry, you're a drag on your team, an assault paperweight with 4 medium lasers.

My own advice is to forgo big upfront salvos for smaller (again, LRM30+Artemis is a solid output) launchers and more ammo. You can hit hard enough to soften the enemy during opening maneuvering, and you'll have the ammo to remain effective well into the endgame, when the enemy has taken a beating and you can often kill targets with one or two salvos.

Vimeous, on 13 July 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

I find it odd I don't think of the Catapult first when talking about lrm-boating, it is after all the historical choice.

Cat C-4 was my first mastered mech, and it will always hold a special place in my heart. Thing is, I'm fielding almost the same load-out these days in my Grif, plus I'm faster. Considering 4x3, again, it's better to leave those heavy slots for the Madcats. Whoever has the most (and the best pilots in them) will usually win.