I think the only thing I would add to all this is that since Ballistics are obviously affected by gravity(even if it's a simulation thereof), the ballistic arc should be adjusted accordingly for firing at targets on differing elevation(i.e. the advantage of high ground, bullet drops to greater degree firing at targets above; lesser at targets below). I'm not entirely sure this applies to the Gauss Rifle round, and it most definitely does not apply to the Machine Gun(it's not even implemented as a Ballistic weapon), but it does apply to all iterations of the AutoCannon.
7
Weapons Fire Resolution ("convergnce") - A Different Idea.
Started by Pht, Nov 29 2011 04:43 PM
143 replies to this topic
#142
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- Knight Errant
- 524 posts
Member
Posted 02 January 2014 - 08:51 PM
Great topic. Awesomly huge opening post.
I just wish I would still care enough to participate. But nonetheless I wish you luck. Maybe someday the devs will listen.
If someone really thinks one set of rules can't be translated into another set of rules (and yeah, it's basically just that), then this person is just too narrow minded and/or biased.
Of course it takes a fair share of creativity and out-of-the-box thinking. Of course you can't translate 1:1. You have to evaluate the limits and make some compromises, think about what's possible and what's not.
But a simple "d'uh, TT into real-time impossibru!" is just as dumb a statement as it gets. Or the lamest excuse for simply not wanting to try it in the first place.
Leave the gamedesign business to people with a proper amount of imagination. Or be honest about your intents, ffs.
I just wish I would still care enough to participate. But nonetheless I wish you luck. Maybe someday the devs will listen.
If someone really thinks one set of rules can't be translated into another set of rules (and yeah, it's basically just that), then this person is just too narrow minded and/or biased.
Of course it takes a fair share of creativity and out-of-the-box thinking. Of course you can't translate 1:1. You have to evaluate the limits and make some compromises, think about what's possible and what's not.
But a simple "d'uh, TT into real-time impossibru!" is just as dumb a statement as it gets. Or the lamest excuse for simply not wanting to try it in the first place.
Leave the gamedesign business to people with a proper amount of imagination. Or be honest about your intents, ffs.
#143
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- Ace Of Spades
- 1,219 posts
Member
Posted 02 January 2014 - 09:06 PM
If we make all weapons fire with mechanicks similar to LRM and SSRM we could actually make 1:1 port of TT to FPS PC game.
Even C3 net would work as intended in TT. Pilot is locking, but actually computer is firing.
Even C3 net would work as intended in TT. Pilot is locking, but actually computer is firing.
#144
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- 2,299 posts
Member
Posted 23 May 2014 - 01:04 PM
... amazing. There were replies on this thread after my last post!
(bbrrraaaaaainnns ... must eat themmm!)
As I understand from my few conversations with people who should know, the speed numbers are somewhat abstract.
Where they apparently *aren't* abstract is in top speed capacity.
For instance, we don't know the acceleration rate of a 'mech under all conditions, but if it's rated 10 hex (300 meters) per ten seconds, we can know it's final velocity, and calculate an average.
We also know that above rated top speed, it is impossible to dodge and harder to do any piloting related things, in fact you are actually a bit easier to hit when sprinting, because your movement is predictable.
So, while there's room for the novels and other fluff to fill in details, and room for game developers to work, we *do* have meaningful paramaters to work with.
Yes, ballistics are absolutely affected by gravity. Thankfully, the targeting computer will adjust the individual weapon's aim points in order to counter this effect under most conditions. However, when firing past the rated long range for the weapon, the targeting computer has a harder time, and this is reflected by a higher chance of missing.
On screen, at extreme or LOS range, this could be visually shown by the ballistic round hitting the ground short of the target, for example.
If (target at line of sight range) and ( ballistic weapon misses) than (draw ballistic round falling short), for example.
Meaning things would act the way they do in the novels too.
You actually have it backwards ... heh.
Pilot is tracking and pulling the firing trigger, computer is calculating individual weapons aimpoints and trying to get each weapon aligned to it's calculated point.
(bbrrraaaaaainnns ... must eat themmm!)
Karl Streiger, on 22 October 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:
Well some one have noticed it too 
A Atlas with 300er rating is able to accelerate from 0 - to x speed and travells 150m in 10 sec.
So acceleration is 3m/s2
That means after those 10seconds it must travell with a speed of 30m/s = 108 kph
Or its acceleration must me much higher for example 16m/s2 and 16m/s top speed.
But what i can tell is that the movement rate of TT is just an abstraction. Because a Mech don't moving in TT doesn't mean it is immobile - it is still able to doge incoming fire.
That in mind - a Mech moving with a movement rate of 8 / 12 - and moving 8 BP - what do you know about its movement? Maybe that thing isn't moving straight - but running - accelerating - decelerating -taking a care full aim for a second while moving only with 32 kph and again starting to sprint.
The given top speeds in MWO is just another example - of copy & paste.
A Atlas with 300er rating is able to accelerate from 0 - to x speed and travells 150m in 10 sec.
So acceleration is 3m/s2
That means after those 10seconds it must travell with a speed of 30m/s = 108 kph
Or its acceleration must me much higher for example 16m/s2 and 16m/s top speed.
But what i can tell is that the movement rate of TT is just an abstraction. Because a Mech don't moving in TT doesn't mean it is immobile - it is still able to doge incoming fire.
That in mind - a Mech moving with a movement rate of 8 / 12 - and moving 8 BP - what do you know about its movement? Maybe that thing isn't moving straight - but running - accelerating - decelerating -taking a care full aim for a second while moving only with 32 kph and again starting to sprint.
The given top speeds in MWO is just another example - of copy & paste.
As I understand from my few conversations with people who should know, the speed numbers are somewhat abstract.
Where they apparently *aren't* abstract is in top speed capacity.
For instance, we don't know the acceleration rate of a 'mech under all conditions, but if it's rated 10 hex (300 meters) per ten seconds, we can know it's final velocity, and calculate an average.
We also know that above rated top speed, it is impossible to dodge and harder to do any piloting related things, in fact you are actually a bit easier to hit when sprinting, because your movement is predictable.
So, while there's room for the novels and other fluff to fill in details, and room for game developers to work, we *do* have meaningful paramaters to work with.
Throet, on 02 January 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:
I think the only thing I would add to all this is that since Ballistics are obviously affected by gravity(even if it's a simulation thereof), the ballistic arc should be adjusted accordingly for firing at targets on differing elevation(i.e. the advantage of high ground, bullet drops to greater degree firing at targets above; lesser at targets below).
Yes, ballistics are absolutely affected by gravity. Thankfully, the targeting computer will adjust the individual weapon's aim points in order to counter this effect under most conditions. However, when firing past the rated long range for the weapon, the targeting computer has a harder time, and this is reflected by a higher chance of missing.
On screen, at extreme or LOS range, this could be visually shown by the ballistic round hitting the ground short of the target, for example.
If (target at line of sight range) and ( ballistic weapon misses) than (draw ballistic round falling short), for example.
Jaeger Gonzo, on 02 January 2014 - 09:06 PM, said:
If we make all weapons fire with mechanicks similar to LRM and SSRM we could actually make 1:1 port of TT to FPS PC game.
Even C3 net would work as intended in TT.
Even C3 net would work as intended in TT.
Meaning things would act the way they do in the novels too.
Quote
Pilot is locking, but actually computer is firing.
You actually have it backwards ... heh.
Pilot is tracking and pulling the firing trigger, computer is calculating individual weapons aimpoints and trying to get each weapon aligned to it's calculated point.
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