19 replies to this topic

[Fl3tcher]

Sitting here earlier today reading through my old BT books thinking about what I can and can't play / build using the mechbay here in MW:O this thought struck me. . .

The Unseen . . it's not the mechs that are the problem, it's the images used to represent them that are owned by other companys, BUT! the visuals of the mechs in MW:O are being updated, redesigned and redrawn . .

So . . how about a slightly redesigned Warhammer, Archer, Thunderbolt, Griffin, Battlemaster that looks just enough unlike the originals to not disturb the sleep of some copyright lawyers somewhere?

I'm interested, anyone else have any thoughts on the subject?

[Stomp]

Fl3tcher, on 26 June 2012 - 02:54 AM, said:

Sitting here earlier today reading through my old BT books thinking about what I can and can't play / build using the mechbay here in MW:O this thought struck me. . .

The Unseen . . it's not the mechs that are the problem, it's the images used to represent them that are owned by other companys, BUT! the visuals of the mechs in MW:O are being updated, redesigned and redrawn . .

So . . how about a slightly redesigned Warhammer, Archer, Thunderbolt, Griffin, Battlemaster that looks just enough unlike the originals to not disturb the sleep of some copyright lawyers somewhere?

I'm interested, anyone else have any thoughts on the subject?

Brace yourselves, the Marauder fans are coming.

[Beardybloke]

it's a fine line I think, redesign them to much and they won't be the mechs people know and love. Keep to much the same and you still run the risk of disturbing mr copyright.

[zencynic]

OP addresses a good point. I have been of the opinion that we will see the Unseen in MWO for just this reason, they will be redrawn/remodeled/redetailed/re-etc'd. I don't expect it at launch, but soon enough.

[Der Zivilist]

The Devs want them just as much as the rest of us. They didn't let the character in their original 2009 teaser trailer pilot a (redesigned!) Warhammer just to annoy Harmony Gold (or whoever owns the Macross franchise these days).

However, until they are officially announced, we'll have to assume that the companies have not been able to find a compromise, and the Unseen will remain Unseen.

[evil713]

im not shure how copyright infringment works when it comes to art, but i would assume that as well as the form of the mecha is copywriten the name is as well.

ie i cant name another mech warhammer and i cant make a mech that looks like a warhammer but give it a diffrent name.

.... now that i think about it, .... ah no you couldent do that. "Canon" needs to be respected. if this was the end of a time period maybe we could get away with building new mech designs based on the classics.

your going to need to wait for the clan ][ variants.

[Nakir]

We hope to see our loved unseen early in the game!Keep our fingers crossed !!

[zencynic]

evil713, on 26 June 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

im not shure how copyright infringment works when it comes to art, but i would assume that as well as the form of the mecha is copywriten the name is as well.

ie i cant name another mech warhammer and i cant make a mech that looks like a warhammer but give it a diffrent name.

Nope, just the artwork. If you checkout the TRO:3039, most of the Unseen are in there, but with small silhouettes rather than the original artwork. Nothing else changed, not their names or stats, just no art.

[Ergath Macfirtree]

IMO many of the unseen looked daft anyway - the Mecha style is at odds with the style of the rest of the gameworld. Don't get me wrong, I like the Wolverine, Shadow Hawk, Battlemaster etc. as much as the next guy, but the big-humanoid-holding-a-laser-gun design always did look stupid.

Bring on the reimagining!

(except the Marauder - that was perfect, obv.)

[SillyOne]

Personally, I'd be fine with them using the Project Pheonix art if it meant getting them in the game.

[killer panzer]

the problem is that you have mechs that were based off the unseen.
fallow my logic here, the marauder is an unseen based of macross cyron's battle pod. from that, the marauder 2 came about and looks a lot like the orignal. then came the stone rhino (behemoth), the second or third modification from the original. and omega from WoB after that.
the problem is that harmony gold can theoretically claim intellectual property infringement (not copy-write, i was involved in a long discussion about this a few weeks ago about something similar regarding names) with any of the derivratives on the "newer" mechs and the original unseen. the ramifications of breaking these "laws (im being sarcastic) can range from a fine/keep the mechs, to a cease and desist/remove only the unseen and derivatives, or possible C&D/ shut down all operations. this is a very tricky ledge they are walking across.

Edited by killer panzer, 26 June 2012 - 09:58 AM.

[Perfecto Oviedo]

Reseen Marauder, I beg of the devs.

[Lord Perversor]

from what i can draw from Sarna, wich maybe wrong the whole status of the thing should work like this.

Unseen, cannot use the original artwork, but they can be included in game if based from the Project Phoenix redraws.

Reseen: New agreement was done so they can use the original artwork.


Checking the page this should bring some odd disparities like warhammer, marauder not be able to use them unless they use Project phoenix Draws, but their clan counter part IIc can be used in game ( heer it's the point i'm not sure if those IIc are in fact the Phoenix re-draws)

But mechs like Griffin and shadow hawk may come with original artwork.

[Thorn Blackwell]

The TRO Phoenix Project actually did just that. The most iconic mechs were hideous though (Marauder, Warhammer, Battlemaster). I would argue however that the Trebuchet currently in the game bears very little resemblence to the Treb from the TRO. It's a redesign already. The same is true for the Centurion.

The Marauder is a special case. In the TRO 3025 it was stated the Catapult and Marauder were designed along the same lines (i.e., they looked like each other because they used a base template). The differences aren't that large. I know the anime lovers will differ, but the MAD is due for a slight modification.

[Eiki]

Well judging by what has been done to the Cataphract, I am confident a really good redesign for some of the Unseen is more the possible.

[Kai Allardo Fenix]

Well thats why would be a redesign ok. For example the Battlemaster had a really good redesign in the MW4 - NBT version. Not to mention the cooler IIC version. It was my favorit mech next to the Thor, Centurion and Daishi. So i would be for a redesign as well. De designers know if how much you must change on the basic copyrighted mech, and you can make a copyright check befor you apply it to the game, so it wont be a problem. I would really like to see the Battlemaster, Archer, Marauder. And well the Bushwalker is not an unseen, but would like to see it as well.

[Elwood Blues]

A redesign would be needed if they were unseen or not. Many of those mechs just didn't look like they belonged. The Marauder, while cool, never quite fit. The Warhammer, Archer, Longbow, Rifleman, and Locust come to mind when I think of those that fit very well. Hell, the Warhammer is looks like the inspiration for the Thor and Loki.

That being said, I would love to see redesigns of those that fit. Those that didn't likely can't be made to look like they do without losing all semblance of the previous design.

Edited by Elwood Blues, 26 June 2012 - 05:45 AM.

[Ingram Olofsson]

Well, all of the mech designs taken from Crusher Joe and Fang of the Sun Dougram are Reseen with no strings attached now, so they don't need to be redesigned.

As for the ones from Super Dimensional Fortress Macross, they were already redesigned once to get around the legal troubles associated with their images. No one really liked the redesigns though, so there were more legal negotiations to allow use of the original images again. Those seemed like they succeeded, then it turned out they hadn't. But as far as I know the redesigns are still legal, so MWO could use those if they wanted to.

For fans of the original images I would imagine the redesigns to be pretty soul-crushing though.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Guys, there have been how many mech art pictures released by now, and none of them are Unseen or Reseen.

This tells me that the guys at MW online are NOT going to risk it. There won't be any unseen or reseen.

[Joe Mallad]

Here is the thing guys... IF the Devs could not in ANY way possible use any of the Unseens... even if they gave them newer redesigned looks, dont you think they would have just said we wont get them at all or just say NO to the will we get Unseens question in the FAQ section? The Devs have been great at giving us what we ask for and or at least trying to give all of us something each of us would like or love to have in this game. If that was not the case, they would not go as far as wanting to give us mech that have never been in ANY MW game to date or even the little stuff like interior cockpit trinkets and customization options. The Devs have been GREAT at giving us up to date info as quickly as any Dev team has with other games. And I do believe in them and that if there was no chance at us getting at least a few of the Unseens with GREAT NEW looks, they would just have said outright... NO, not going to happen.

Give it time and have faith in these great bunch of guys at Piranha Games and IGP. I dont believe they will let us down. This is their baby and their passion as much as it is most of ours.

Again... if there was no way we could get any of the unseens then they would just say no. Yet this is what we got...

Q. Will the unseen Mechs make it into the game after all?

A. Look forward to a future announcement.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 03 July 2012 - 06:56 PM.