40 replies to this topic

[Lugh]

Paigan, on 02 June 2015 - 05:19 AM, said:

So you say if there's an animal's (like a wolf or something less majestic as, say, a sloth) and your life at stake, you would be okay if someone would flip a coin if he could save only one of you?
Of course you wouln't (and don't you dare saying yes you would). You would scream "Save me, don't flip a coin, you idiot, I'm one of your kind, I'm more important than him, he'll die anyway in a few years".

hypocrite, naive little child


Also, this save-the-wolves only exists because of human sentimentality. Because they look nice and people want to preserve that.
If the blobfish (or some other ugly species) was at the brink of going extinct, the same people would look at it and say "Meh, guess they're not fit enough"
It's emotionally driven, not out of reason or responsibility.

Childish hypocrisy, that's all that is.



Of course our species is more important to us. Not because we consider ourselves intellectually superior (we are btw), but because it is OUR species. A wolf would always consider his species to be more important than humans or any other and so on (if they could grasp the concept, which they can't).

I'm not saying we should kill everything we can.
We should take only what we need, etc., and show responsibility (because of our intellect), but at the end of the day, still animals die, humans die, whole races die.

You can also see it this way:
Nature created humans. If its other creations can't adapt as fast as we can, what would nature say?
It wouldn't say "OMG you have to save my children". That's not how nature works. It would "say" (if it could) "kill the lousy suckers".

One could argue we are NOT intellectually superior as we are the only species on the planet that lives out of balance with all of nature.

We are now approaching the point where the hubris of believing we are superior, is being proven false on so many levels it's not even funny. And we are collapsing ecospheres in the oceans that may not ever recover. For true intellectual superiority you would have to make life better for all the things. Not just your things.

Incidentally wolves DO value their own over all others it's why they travel in packs. It's unnatural to kill all the things because you can.

Edited by Lugh, 02 June 2015 - 11:03 AM.

[Mystere]

Nightmare1, on 02 June 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

Not so sure about birds. Considering the speed at which this thread is tanking, it may only be suitable for bottom feeders like Catfish.

But I love catfish po' boy!

[Nightmare1]

Mystere, on 02 June 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

But I love catfish po' boy!

Catfish do taste good!

...Uh-oh...cue a "Save the Catfish!" Thread...

Edited by Nightmare1, 02 June 2015 - 11:16 AM.

[Nightmare1]

Lugh, on 02 June 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

One could argue we are NOT intellectually superior as we are the only species on the planet that lives out of balance with all of nature.

We are now approaching the point where the hubris of believing we are superior, is being proven false on so many levels it's not even funny. And we are collapsing ecospheres in the oceans that may not ever recover. For true intellectual superiority you would have to make life better for all the things. Not just your things.

Incidentally wolves DO value their own over all others it's why they travel in packs. It's unnatural to kill all the things because you can.

I think you're confusing intellectual superiority with moral superiority.

I've yet to see any critters invent a lightbulb.

[Lyoto Machida]

DavidHurricane, on 02 June 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

Meanwhile people in Africa die for clean water, people starve, children in India go blind from lack of Vitamin A, ISIS advances, police are being attacked all throughout the US...

But let's ignore all that! This red wolf thing needs help!

EDIT: Also, your first post and you're already begging for money? I think I'll pass.

I believe you mean that "police are attacking people all throughout the US."

Nightmare1, on 02 June 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

I believe that human life is sacred and special and certainly don't feel that, "We can afford for some of them to die."

That's a cold sentiment and illustrates a lack of humanity in yourself.

As for more people on the planet, I have no problem with that. I'm an engineer; I know better than to believe the latest Hollywood post-apocalyptic, over-population, fear-mongering movie or mass media darling shmooze. I'm confident in my ability, and the abilities of my fellow engineers, to devise solutions to such problems. In short, you won't find me hand-wringing and advocating for people to die or not be born. I'll be out there actually doing something to improve your quality of life as well as the quality of life for unborn millions, without ever receiving a thank you for it. I certainly take offense at the notion that I or someone in my family "can afford to die" simply because you are so gullible, short-sighted, and in possession of a stunted conscience.

Go crawl back into your hole.

It's not my job to worry about humanity as a whole...my responsibility is to my friends and loved ones around me. I try to live my life as a good person and do what's right for the most part but the reality of things is that people die all the time. Case in point...one of my friends from college was one of the Americans killed on Mount Everest back in April during the Nepal earthquake. Was it fair to die at such a young age? No, but such is life. He isn't the first person in my life to die before their time and won't be the last.

Was his life worth more than some illiterate guy in India or some backwoods guy in the South spawning child after child into impoverished conditions? In my opinion...yes, because I know my friend was capable of contributing so much more to humanity as a whole than the two aforementioned, hypothetical people (of which we have PLENTY of already). The fact is that the lives of some people are worth more than others...has always been this way throughout history and I doubt it will change in our lifetime.

I live in Los Angeles...maybe you engineers could somehow find a way to export the 750,000 illegal immigrants living out here to the unpopulated corners of Montana. My commute to work is way too long as is, without having the roads clogged up with people who shouldn't even be here in the first place.

[Nightmare1]

Lyoto Machida, on 02 June 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

Wall of moronic text.

Major points:

1) Los Angelas: That explains a lot.

2) I'm actually a backwoods Southerner whose family sacrificed a lot to send to college and, through his own effort, elevated himself from an agrarian lifestyle to that of a Chemical Engineer. I'm sorry about your friend, but the question I have is this: Why on earth did he even want to climb the thing? That's a bit of his own fault for engaging in what is already a riskier-than-normal venture. The earthquake, freak circumstance though it may be, is merely a force of nature and a sad coincidence. If your friend's death is your justification for devaluing human life, then you are not honoring him very well.

3) Believe it or not, I do have a solution to the immigration problem, as do many other engineers of various vocations, but it doesn't help politicians get re-elected like an influx of illegal votes will.

4) No, it's not your job to worry about humanity as a whole, but it's also not your job to pass judgment on it and be dissmissive of human life. This, "Am I my brother's [or society's] keeper?" is awfully reminiscent of an excuse used by the world's first murderer.

5) You're an incredibly sad and bitter person. You have my sympathies though not my respect since you are actually a part of the problem rather than the solution.

6) K-Town must be confirmed by now; buckle up!

I am done with this thread. It's sad how fast it fell, but I suppose that's what you get when people such as you infect it.

[DarthHias]

Sad how some people react to a simple request to donate to a wildlife preservation fund.

[Lyoto Machida]

Nightmare1, on 02 June 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

Major points:

1) Los Angelas: That explains a lot.

2) I'm actually a backwoods Southerner whose family sacrificed a lot to send to college and, through his own effort, elevated himself from an agrarian lifestyle to that of a Chemical Engineer. I'm sorry about your friend, but the question I have is this: Why on earth did he even want to climb the thing? That's a bit of his own fault for engaging in what is already a riskier-than-normal venture. The earthquake, freak circumstance though it may be, is merely a force of nature and a sad coincidence. If your friend's death is your justification for devaluing human life, then you are not honoring him very well.

3) Believe it or not, I do have a solution to the immigration problem, as do many other engineers of various vocations, but it doesn't help politicians get re-elected like an influx of illegal votes will.

4) No, it's not your job to worry about humanity as a whole, but it's also not your job to pass judgment on it and be dissmissive of human life. This, "Am I my brother's [or society's] keeper?" is awfully reminiscent of an excuse used by the world's first murderer.

5) You're an incredibly sad and bitter person. You have my sympathies though not my respect since you are actually a part of the problem rather than the solution.

6) K-Town must be confirmed by now; buckle up!

I am done with this thread. It's sad how fast it fell, but I suppose that's what you get when people such as you infect it.

I knew the Los Angeles part would resonate well with you...I guess we're all scum of the earth here. Money doesn't change that...just like it couldn't save Steve Jobs.

As far as my friend? He was the head of privacy of Google X and was photographing the region for Google Street View. He was a philanthropist and was raising money/awareness for a couple of Nepalese orphanages...feel free to donate if you're such a humanitarian (as you claim to be).

You may find this hard to believe but I'm actually pretty happy with my life, though I wouldn't expect "people such as you" to understand. Most of us here that are first generation products of immigrants who legally came to this country probably aren't very agreeable with your Southern sensibilities.

Feel free to TK me in game when you see me if it makes you feel better.

You are right in one regard though...K-Town is the appropriate destination for this thread.

DarthHias, on 02 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:

Sad how some people react to a simple request to donate to a wildlife preservation fund.

How is this even the appropropriate forum for this type of thing?

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Wow, a simple request to help a charity if you feel like it and people wig out.

[Sir Wulfrick]

Lyoto Machida, on 02 June 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

I believe you mean that "police are attacking people all throughout the US."



It's not my job to worry about humanity as a whole...my responsibility is to my friends and loved ones around me. I try to live my life as a good person and do what's right for the most part but the reality of things is that people die all the time. Case in point...one of my friends from college was one of the Americans killed on Mount Everest back in April during the Nepal earthquake. Was it fair to die at such a young age? No, but such is life. He isn't the first person in my life to die before their time and won't be the last.

Was his life worth more than some illiterate guy in India or some backwoods guy in the South spawning child after child into impoverished conditions? In my opinion...yes, because I know my friend was capable of contributing so much more to humanity as a whole than the two aforementioned, hypothetical people (of which we have PLENTY of already). The fact is that the lives of some people are worth more than others...has always been this way throughout history and I doubt it will change in our lifetime.

I live in Los Angeles...maybe you engineers could somehow find a way to export the 750,000 illegal immigrants living out here to the unpopulated corners of Montana. My commute to work is way too long as is, without having the roads clogged up with people who shouldn't even be here in the first place.

A post that befits your forum title. That is not, by the way, in any way a compliment.

Hard to believe that the same community that gave so generously to a cancer charity is the same community that generated most of the responses on this thread. Sad really...

[Axeface]

Nightmare1, on 02 June 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

As for more people on the planet, I have no problem with that. I'm an engineer; I know better than to believe the latest Hollywood post-apocalyptic, over-population, fear-mongering movie or mass media darling shmooze. I'm confident in my ability, and the abilities of my fellow engineers, to devise solutions to such problems.

Well at least you can safely say that you are proud of what you do. That said, could you hurry up please? The planet has lost 50% of it's wildlife in the past 40 years after all.

Edited by Axeface, 02 June 2015 - 07:57 PM.

[kesmai]

Axeface, on 02 June 2015 - 07:57 PM, said:

Well at least you can safely say that you are proud of what you do. That said, could you hurry up please? The planet has lost 50% of it's wildlife in the past 40 years after all.

NO it has not.
Because all these engineers and people with their sacred lives prevented all animals from extinction.
the few that went extinct, would have been gone anyway.
see...

[Juodas Varnas]

Axeface, on 02 June 2015 - 07:57 PM, said:

Well at least you can safely say that you are proud of what you do. That said, could you hurry up please? The planet has lost 50% of it's wildlife in the past 40 years after all.

Well, >99% of all animal species that ever existed are extinct. And only very little of them are because of us.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 02 June 2015 - 09:02 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

Jae Hyun Nakamura, on 01 June 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

You put the life of humans on a higher level of importance as the life of an animal? I don't. The life of a human beeing has to be set equal to the life of every animal which we share one world with. And if you think of how cruel it is what the so called civilized part of this world does to the less civilized world, try to think about what they do to all the animals and the nature around them. Examples? Killing whales or elephants for beauty products, destroying hectars of rain forest and therefor the environment of many other animals for furniture or soja plantations. And as an exclusive to humanity however, we always take more than we need.

Here you have a forum member who is trying to help and inform people about it in a nice and intelligent way and you have nothing better to do then bringing this member down with your comment?

Oh little kitty...grow your mind.

Peace

you know, it's a bit funny but i'm a m.s. in ecology... not very experienced though but still
i kind of devoted a significant part of my life to animals... sometimes i still think that i did a wrong choice, but i have a zero ability to be a social worker or something

as for this thread, i'm 100% sure there is a ton of programs to save the wildlife of any american state and charity could be spent a better way

Paigan, on 02 June 2015 - 05:19 AM, said:

If the blobfish (or some other ugly species)

i dunno, most of those are adorable
don't you want to pet him for instance

[Ursh]

bad arcade kitty, on 01 June 2015 - 09:09 PM, said:

meanwhile ~0.7-1 bln people in the world starve...
red wolves are more important, no doubt

also offtopic

The wolves are more important to me than a bunch of people who had more kids than they could support. No doubt the next nobel prize winning cancer-curing, faster than light travel inventing genius is among those starving families though, right? No chance at all that feeding them will just continue their cycle of mate, feed, kill, repeat, right?

[bad arcade kitty]

>a bunch of people who had more kids than they could support

imo it's a pretty silly kind of logic
do you think that only those suffer who have multiple children? or that children asked to be born despite they were prenatally warned that their parents are poor?

[Jae Hyun Nakamura]

bad arcade kitty, on 02 June 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

>a bunch of people who had more kids than they could support

imo it's a pretty silly kind of logic
do you think that only those suffer who have multiple children? or that children asked to be born despite they were prenatally warned that their parents are poor?

First of all +100 loyality points for this cute tapir, i love it.

Second. If two humans try to raise a child in an environment that doesn't support life (barren land, dessert, no water or food etc.) without the ability to really raise it (no money, no food, no etc.) the only logic is this little humans death. It's not the fault of this child but his parents. There even was a country in the asian region whose politicians set up a birth control many years ago because the overpopulation could not be fed (Japan or Asia, i dunno, with one child per family). And don't get me wrong, i think this is an intelligent and responsible way.

Imo the real big problem is, that humans who have the abilities (money, land, safety) to raise more than one child just don't do it anymore and the one who don't have this good situation have more children then fingers on my both hands. In my country we have a sentence for this: dumm ***** gut (dumb fcks good). There is a scientific discussion that compares humans (as animals) with a counterpart compareable with it, the apes. Apes are less intelligent but you can compare their social ans sexual structures with this of humans. Apes, especially Bonobos, *** around in many situations, dosn't matter if they are bored, angry, stressed or something else, they use sex as a way to calm down (very intelligent in my opinion ). And here comes the other sentence grown from the first: dumm ***** öfter (dumb fcks more often). I know it's coded in our genes to reproduce for fcks sake, but he who gains the ability to rationally think about it, doesn't. (polemic, i know)

I think quantity, not quality is the right word for it and we came very far with this dumb massproduction of half intelligent human beeings. Get one child and it may survive for one more generation, or maybe not. Get twenty of them and you can be more sure that one of them will survive (still not a stupid idea).

For me? I have have to raise one child and it's enough, i cannot or just don't want to afford another one. If it's going to happen (and it won't for sure) i will get seriuos problems to pay my bills and assure a good future for this child and the one i have. Still i just try to survive.

You can call me an ******* if you want, i don't care. But what i care for, and it's the same most of you care for in the case of humanity, is family and friends, nothing more, nothing less. Still i try to help all those other participants of life who extinct because of this "great, superstitious, one and only center mass of the universe" humans (sarcasm) in some ways i can afford.

Peace

[Joseph Mallan]

Nightmare1, on 02 June 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

I believe that human life is sacred and special and certainly don't feel that, "We can afford for some of them to die."

That's a cold sentiment and illustrates a lack of humanity in yourself.

As for more people on the planet, I have no problem with that. I'm an engineer; I know better than to believe the latest Hollywood post-apocalyptic, over-population, fear-mongering movie or mass media darling shmooze. I'm confident in my ability, and the abilities of my fellow engineers, to devise solutions to such problems. In short, you won't find me hand-wringing and advocating for people to die or not be born. I'll be out there actually doing something to improve your quality of life as well as the quality of life for unborn millions, without ever receiving a thank you for it. I certainly take offense at the notion that I or someone in my family "can afford to die" simply because you are so gullible, short-sighted, and in possession of a stunted conscience.

Go crawl back into your hole.

You're an engineer. Reason enough for us to run in fear! (JK)

Human Life is sacred. And as a former Marine I also learned it is expendable as well. See one life on its own seems to be everything. But One life out of 7 billion? For it to be important to me, it has to be known to me, otherwise its a statistic.

You should be offended if someone thinks you or yours should die. Or maybe you need to understand that to a complete stranger you are a number. And to be fair, I'd kill 10 people I don't know to save one person I love.

There is nothing wrong with your outlook, but since some people hold no life as sacred, people like me are necessary.

[Helaton]

I'll chip in for helping 4 legged critters, they've done much more to make life pleasant than some of their two-legged counterparts.

To everyone, this is a Star Wolves Unit drive that's being extended to the Mechwarrior community. Kera is a well respected member of our community.

If you don't like the cause, you do not have to participate. There's no smoke and mirrors or man hidden behind the curtains twisting your arm. It is themed in tandem with the clan we represent and supports a good cause.

For the 850m that are starving out in the world, if you wish to contribute to that cause, please start your own thread/drive to benefit that cause. Or better yet leave Mechwarrior, jump on a plane and go help those in need. That would be more productive than some of the opinions.

If you've come to someone's cause, just to belittle it and say another cause is more valuable without even supporting your own recommendation (no links? no pitch?), you're doing much worse for everyone by doing nothing. Maybe you deserve to be one of the 850m suffering instead. If this sounds like you, move along, move along. These aren't the droids you're looking for.

[CDLord HHGD]

Jae Hyun Nakamura, on 01 June 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

You put the life of humans on a higher level of importance as the life of an animal? I don't. The life of a human beeing has to be set equal to the life of every animal which we share one world with. And if you think of how cruel it is what the so called civilized part of this world does to the less civilized world, try to think about what they do to all the animals and the nature around them. Examples? Killing whales or elephants for beauty products, destroying hectars of rain forest and therefor the environment of many other animals for furniture or soja plantations. And as an exclusive to humanity however, we always take more than we need.

Here you have a forum member who is trying to help and inform people about it in a nice and intelligent way and you have nothing better to do then bringing this member down with your comment?

Oh little kitty...grow your mind.

Peace

Shut up hippie!

@ OP, hope you do well with your charity run.