12 replies to this topic

[Zfailboat]

So, MWO needs role warfare - this could become particularly more effective as the maps get larger, to better utilise traps / flanks. At least that's my opinion. The question is how to do it.

Below are 2 personal opinions I have on ways this could be done. They could both be implemented together - or just 1.

The first already has some rewards by PGI around Lance improvements.

option 1.

The first issue is lock ranges. Assaults should be 500m, Heavies 600, Mediums 700 and lights 800 by default. This is a relatively minor adjustment, but a positive one for using lighter mechs as scouts more.

This should be complemented by only being able to LOCK targets that your lance mates can see, or that are tagged or narc'ed. This allows for a more tactical use of the "Lance function" to position scout mechs in lances where they will provide the most assistance. this also means as your team dies, consolidating players into other lances is important - giving people to take the command increased command roles (even if only a tiny bit)

Now that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to see mechs that others in your teams can see. They should show up on the overview with something like a red circle instead of triangle. EG - you can see them, but you cant target them.

now this does hurt missile boats. However improvements to Bap, or UAVS that can be fired to a certain location + tweaks on travel time could offset this with a bit of balance work.

Option 2.

Ghost Mode.

This is only for mechs that move FASTER than 100 kph. Ghost mode only affects YOUR mech.

Ghost mode would require a Ghost module (similar to ECM) + a mech over 100 kph.
It would activate in 10 second lots up to 100 seconds for the entire game. (can be held down to use constantly) Once deactivated it cannot be re-active for 20 seconds (to save people peppering it to break locks)

When active your mech is not able to be targeted including cancelled by ECM or BAP/CAP. You also cannot be seen on seismic sensors. It would still be able to be cut through by tag or narc only. Whilst active you CANNOT fire any weapons in Ghost mode except for Narc or Tag.

Ghost mode would give the ability for fast mechs to set up ambushes, for spotters to feed target information, and all the while do it without having to worry about the enemy seeing your footprints on seismic or having the radar jamming of ECM show up.

This provides lights with excellent role warfare, some mediums and even the Quickdraw for IS would be a possibly in the heavy range. HOWEVER it uses tonnage for the module and is limited to only your mech, along with the negative of not being able to fire back, if active when you are spotted.
The threat of this module increases the need for narc and tag - EG increasing the need again for lights in role warfare.

there may need to be some slight turning down of DPS of some medium and light builds to compensate, but again this could be balanced in testing.


Again as stated, these options could be either used together or individually as they are not dependant on each other. the idea in general is to blind the big mechs a bit more, and have them need eyes and ears of the little guys to unleash their full potential. whilst still giving lights and mediums a fantastic ability to set up traps

[FupDup]

I think another module system revamp could help here...

FupDup, on 06 June 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

I think that the whole module system should be revamped a second time, this time focusing on actual module class differentiation. The current system of mech/consumable/weapon doesn't have anything to do with roles or strengths/weaknesses. The consumable slot in particular is a blatant money sink, trying to get you to pay to fill up all of your mod slots (before the mod update you could fill up all your slots with passive mods).

There should be a lot more specific categories for "Modules 3.0" or whatever we want to call it.


The categories that I would start with would be the following:



Scout/Recon/Sensors: These modules will either help you gather info about the red team, or hide info from the red team. Includes Seismic Wallhack, Radar Derp, UAV, Target Decay, Sensor Range, Target Info, and 360 Targeting.

Offense: These modules are for mechs who take the fight right to the front door. Right now this would mostly entail weapon cooldown mods. Coolant Flush might go here as well?

Defense: These modules are for being a hardass and not dying, things that make you tougher. Right now we only have Advanced Gyros for this category, and it's laughably underpowered... We need more defensive-focused modules. Stuff like increased internal structure on certain body sections (i.e. "Center Torso Structure Module"). Maybe add a consumable turret drop if PGI really insists on their money sinks.

Support: Similar to offense, but less about direct confrontations and more about being methodical and keeping the red team at arm's reach. Weapon range modules would go here, along with Artillery and Airstrikes. I think that Advanced Zoom might go here too.

Mobility: Modules that make you maneuver better. Right now our only mobility mods are Speed Retention and Hill Climb. We need more mods in this category, like a small speed boost (+5%), some agility mods, JJ boost, etc.

Generalist: This module slot type exists for mechs whose role is to be a versatile jack-of-all-trades. This slot type can fit any module from any other category. This namely applies to most mediums, along with some other various mechs here and there.


Those are the only ones I can think of for now. After doing all that jazz above, module slot categories would actually pertain to a mech's role or strengths/weaknesses rather than the current way-too-broad system that doesn't do such.

[Sir Wulfrick]

Having read it carefully I agree entirely with the above proposal.

I do think though that to compensate light mechs for the requirement to carry the module that they ought to be rewarded much more highly for actual scouting tasks, i.e:

1. Finding an enemy mech on sensors for the first time.
2. Obtaining a lock on an enemy mech for the first time.
3. Maintaining a lock on an enemy mech.
4. Having an enemy mech locked when it's destroyed.

And so forth.

Most light mechs were never meant to be forced in to the maximum damage paradigm. They should be returned to their intended role, which is normally not maximum damage, but should be equally rewarded as the fatties are for their intended purpose which is damage output.

[Xmith]

Too late for any kind of role warfare. Added quirks pretty much killed that dream.

Most would rather deal out damage and get a few kills the best way possible.

[Karmen Baric]

I dont really agree with OPs proposal especially not the ghost thing.



But i do like the post that FupDup made.

FupDup, on 08 June 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

I think another module system revamp could help here...

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Sir Wulfrick, on 08 June 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

Most light mechs were never meant to be forced in to the maximum damage paradigm. They should be returned to their intended role, which is normally not maximum damage, but should be equally rewarded as the fatties are for their intended purpose which is damage output.

Yup, most light mechs were designed for scouting, grabbing crap with their hands during raids, and dealing with infintry and tanks. Mechs like the jenner and cicada were designed to hunt those mechs down.

[Tristan Winter]

Roles should not be specific to weight class. It should be possible to play medium mechs as brawlers, snipers, strikers, scouts or even command mechs, in my opinion.

[Zfailboat]

Tristan Winter, on 08 June 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

Roles should not be specific to weight class. It should be possible to play medium mechs as brawlers, snipers, strikers, scouts or even command mechs, in my opinion.

Thanks Tristan, I agree that roles shouldn't be specific, but they should be "Targeted". It is obvious that the firestarter A was doing more damage than a light should be able to on a regular amount. similarly its obvious that the Quickdraw is not able to utilise its speed advantage as it should currently.

also I do like FupDups ideas also on modules, they could also be incorporated to part of the solution. EG I think the UAV should be fireable like the arty is. that is to say, it launches from your mech and flies to hover above where your cursor was when you launched it.

all in all - more comments on improving role warefare the better. Remember - bigger maps, which are coming should help allow for more roles to be playable.

instead of just adjusting the quirks / mechs. I was hoping to start having people think of a more dynamic solution.

[Chuck Jager]

There is plenty of room for roles as the game is designed, but it is the players not PGI that have pushed the game in this direction (this is my opinion, I do not have any hard data).

If we can not get 12 people to meet at a central point for blobbing how do you think more specific requirements will play out. Sometimes it is hard to get 1/3 of a pug team to expose their mech until we have a lead by five or there is nowhere left to hide. Whenever I hear scouting for lights it usually means farming dc or instant death at least 10 squares away from the team. If we get PVE campaigns the roles could more easily be introduced by the setting and goals of the mission.

I do like the suggestions, but I think the nature of online games is to hard to change.

[Zfailboat]

Hi Chuck

yes this is why the first part of the whole post is important. REDUCE visibility of the enemy via reduced lock ranges / only being able to share target data with those in lance.

If people cannot see the enemy, people will start asking "Where are they guys" people will start NEEDING support players. good quality support players will be able to change the course of the game with "Information"

This is not the whole solution, but I am hoping something like this could begin to be a part of the solution. The key is creating a NEED. It will only be when we can make a need for change, that it will happen.

[FalconerGray]

What about a proper C3 Master / Slave setup?

[Zfailboat]

legatoblues, on 08 June 2015 - 06:46 PM, said:

What about a proper C3 Master / Slave setup?

Well there are a variety of options, I was just looking at targeting by lance - as lances already exist + there is already lance bonuses in the cash pool. thus it would just be another expansion to an existing line of thought by PGI. + the drop commander can re-assign lance participants.

EG hey guys im in a light with narc and tag, do we have any missile boats / snipers that need long range targets - Oh yeah us 3 guys in Alpha are in missile boats - quick switch that guy into our lance.

[Madcap72]

MWO already has role warfare, no one utilizes it. In fact, many Mechs in MWO do well in their traditionally defined roles, and poor outside of them.

I don't see changing detection ranges and introducing magic stealth spells as fixing flaw in the player base.