30 replies to this topic

[Zeece]

Just because I'm curious I've got to ask... How did you vote and what do you think of the options?

http://mwomercs.com/...echs-re-builds/

[Bilbo]

3rd option on the Orion because it's how I run it. I didn't vote on the others because I almost never run them.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

First option on the Treb, because it's the sanest thing out of all the current polls.

I really, really don't understand why people put likes the way they did. I understand what that way was, though.

• A large portion of the people who 'voted' on the builds to consider did so by selecting the build that they would run as an experienced player with elites completed. This means failing to take into account that new players are unlikely to be up to speed on torso twisting, cover peeking, the difference between varying numbers of jump jets, and trigger discipline. It also means failing to take into account the high overheat propensity. A number of the most-liked builds thus engage in deadsiding, heat-intensive loadouts if all weapons are used consistently, insanely small amounts of rear armor, or one or two jump jets.
  
• A smaller but still significant portion 'voted' for builds made by people they like or find amusing, which is why Homeless Bill and TheB33f got a lot of builds in that aren't sane for a new player to drive for the reasons I mentioned in the previous point.

I understand that this is why these builds got selected, but I don't understand why people selected builds this way. I certainly wouldn't want to see any new players trying to run a lot of the high-vote builds for just this reason.

[CDLord HHGD]

I don't buy champions (unless on accident). I only win them through events offerings and then I'm not one to complain about free stuffs.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 19 June 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

First option on the Treb, because it's the sanest thing out of all the current polls.

lolwut

[Ultimax]

I only voted on the 9SE & GRF-1S because I don't have play experience with the other mechs.

As much as I wanted to add value to the (C) purchase and give it a 310XL - I couldn't justify it for a variant that will be played by new players with 0 efficiencies unlocked - so I voted for the STD eng build with all DHS in the STs (I think the other choice had back armor that was a bit too low for a new player).


For the GRF I voted for the 325XL build with 4x MLAS.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

WM Quicksilver, on 19 June 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

lolwut

Look at the other polls. The options are mostly the same as each other (almost exactly the same for the Griffin) and generally not good new player ideas.

[Alistair Winter]

I honestly have no idea why people care about the Champion mechs in 2015.

[FupDup]

Alistair Winter, on 19 June 2015 - 04:52 PM, said:

I honestly have no idea why people care about the Champion mechs in 2015.

Sympathy for new players who have to use them until they grind out their first mech, I guess.

[Crotch RockIt]

Alistair Winter, on 19 June 2015 - 04:52 PM, said:

I honestly have no idea why people care about the Champion mechs in 2015.

When MWO is released on Steam later this year, the noobs will need decent trial mechs.

Edited by Crotch RockIt, 19 June 2015 - 05:17 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

FupDup, on 19 June 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

Sympathy for new players who have to use them until they grind out their first mech, I guess.

Crotch RockIt, on 19 June 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

When MWO is released on Steam later this year, the noobs will need decent trial mechs.

That part I understand, but the amount of attention Champion mechs get is still a bit boggling to me. So many people involved, voting and making builds. I'm not against it, I just don't understand why they're spending so much time on it. Maybe the people working for PGI aren't the most elite players, but they should still be able to just knock out a decent Champion mech build quickly when they need one. It's not rocket science.

Nice to get the community involved in something and to have a joint effort between PGI and the players, but... picking trial mech builds feels a bit meaningless. I'd prefer to see some interaction for other parts of the game.

[Mawai]

Hi All,

Am I missing something?

A lot of the options for these champion mechs have ammo in the CT and/or ST. This makes no sense to me since the torso armor is usually stripped long before the leg armor ... and keeping ammo there just makes it vulnerable to critical hit ammo explosions which usually kill the mech.

I have played in a lot of matches with a critically damaged CT ... if you get out of the line of fire you can still usually contribute a lot supporting your team mates ... so why store ammo where it makes you far more vulnerable ... rather than in the legs?

It has been a very long time since I last lost a leg in a heavy mech and that was usually just before I died anyway ... legs have so much armor for the bigger mechs that it is usually more effective to aim at the torso. Losing the CT kills the mech while you need to lose both legs to do the same ... and both legs have about the same armor as the CT but require aiming at two separate targets.

[FupDup]

Mawai, on 19 June 2015 - 07:37 PM, said:

Hi All,

Am I missing something?

A lot of the options for these champion mechs have ammo in the CT and/or ST. This makes no sense to me since the torso armor is usually stripped long before the leg armor ... and keeping ammo there just makes it vulnerable to critical hit ammo explosions which usually kill the mech.

I have played in a lot of matches with a critically damaged CT ... if you get out of the line of fire you can still usually contribute a lot supporting your team mates ... so why store ammo where it makes you far more vulnerable ... rather than in the legs?

It has been a very long time since I last lost a leg in a heavy mech and that was usually just before I died anyway ... legs have so much armor for the bigger mechs that it is usually more effective to aim at the torso. Losing the CT kills the mech while you need to lose both legs to do the same ... and both legs have about the same armor as the CT but require aiming at two separate targets.

Torso ammo can actually be viable IF you use up your ammunition before your torsos get opened up...this normally applies to rapid dakka and Lurms.

Storing in the legs is normally safe, although sometimes you might not want to put everything in there because then you might encounter people who aim for the legs...

[Impyrium]

Alistair Winter, on 19 June 2015 - 07:21 PM, said:

That part I understand, but the amount of attention Champion mechs get is still a bit boggling to me. So many people involved, voting and making builds. I'm not against it, I just don't understand why they're spending so much time on it. Maybe the people working for PGI aren't the most elite players, but they should still be able to just knock out a decent Champion mech build quickly when they need one. It's not rocket science.

Nice to get the community involved in something and to have a joint effort between PGI and the players, but... picking trial mech builds feels a bit meaningless. I'd prefer to see some interaction for other parts of the game.

Two factors:

• Being able to add something you personally want to the game will always drum up interest regardless of what it is.
  
• This is going to be one of the biggest factors that affects new player experience. Tutorials are one, the piles of trash they have to pilot for at least twenty games are another.

I'm currently tutoring a mate into the game, and let me tell you, the trial 'mechs are the biggest kicker. He can live without a tutorial, because I pointed out the basics and much of it he picked up himself, but having to run very non-optimised 'mechs and then attempt to wrap his head around the fact his new stock 'mech is even worse until he upgrades it is not fun for him, at all.

Edited by Dingo Red, 19 June 2015 - 07:51 PM.

[Mawai]

FupDup, on 19 June 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

Torso ammo can actually be viable IF you use up your ammunition before your torsos get opened up...this normally applies to rapid dakka and Lurms.

Storing in the legs is normally safe, although sometimes you might not want to put everything in there because then you might encounter people who aim for the legs...

Usually, I want my ammo to last through the match ... as a result, torso ammo doesn't make much sense since there will always be some left - unless there is some in the legs too. Head ammo isn't an issue for this exact reason since it gets used first.

Here are some of the builds from the survey with ammo in the torso ... and little or none in the legs.

This is one of the leading Orion builds ...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...69c5ea14fd609e2

This is one of the Quickdraw builds ...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...911b63af08c7237

Both of the leading Griffin 1S builds ... though at least the second has some ammo in the legs ... but 5 tons of ammo should last a long time ...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6f9ae71a8ceee2b
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...13d709af2fc45f6

[FupDup]

Mawai, on 19 June 2015 - 08:03 PM, said:

Usually, I want my ammo to last through the match ... as a result, torso ammo doesn't make much sense since there will always be some left - unless there is some in the legs too. Head ammo isn't an issue for this exact reason since it gets used first.

Here are some of the builds from the survey with ammo in the torso ... and little or none in the legs.
...

I phrased it poorly...I didn't mean to say that you had to use up all of your TOTAL ammo, you just had to use up the torso ammo specifically before getting torn open. You can have the leg or whatever ammo for later in the match, but torso ammo for early match can be okay with certain weapons (namely long range and/or rapid fire ones).

For example, you might put a ton of UAC/5 ammo in your CT, and using up those 30 shots should be pretty easy before you get cracked open.

Edited by FupDup, 19 June 2015 - 08:07 PM.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

So now I've looked at all of the polls. I think I only voted in three or four of them. I really question what was in the minds of the forumgoers who voted on which ones to include as options- there is a nigh-universal lack of rear armor that is going to create tonnes and tonnes of terrible new player experiences, a huge portion of the 'mechs rely on shield-siding when only a few have hardpoints predicated that heavily, there are a lot of things with 2 jump jets (this is the wrong number of jets for current jump mechanics, people!), and virtually everything runs much, much too hot for a new player.

Eugh.

As I was afraid of at the very beginning, builds that require an experienced pilot to use well and builds proposed by people that are well-liked have precedence, rather than ones that are friendly to new users.

At least there isn't much on the lists that warrants 4+ weapons groups.

[Felio]

Alistair Winter, on 19 June 2015 - 07:21 PM, said:

That part I understand, but the amount of attention Champion mechs get is still a bit boggling to me. So many people involved, voting and making builds. I'm not against it, I just don't understand why they're spending so much time on it. Maybe the people working for PGI aren't the most elite players, but they should still be able to just knock out a decent Champion mech build quickly when they need one. It's not rocket science.

Nice to get the community involved in something and to have a joint effort between PGI and the players, but... picking trial mech builds feels a bit meaningless. I'd prefer to see some interaction for other parts of the game.

I think it got started because the new jager champ was so atrociously bad that people bombarded Russ on Twitter about it.

It's probably how I would resolve the situation. You save face by not redoing only a single one, and many need updating anyway. No one on staff has to spend time redesigning, voting ensures it'll be somewhat well-liked, and any complaints can be redirected to the players.

Quickdraw Crobat, on 19 June 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

So now I've looked at all of the polls. I think I only voted in three or four of them. I really question what was in the minds of the forumgoers who voted on which ones to include as options- there is a nigh-universal lack of rear armor that is going to create tonnes and tonnes of terrible new player experiences, a huge portion of the 'mechs rely on shield-siding when only a few have hardpoints predicated that heavily, there are a lot of things with 2 jump jets (this is the wrong number of jets for current jump mechanics, people!), and virtually everything runs much, much too hot for a new player.

Eugh.

As I was afraid of at the very beginning, builds that require an experienced pilot to use well and builds proposed by people that are well-liked have precedence, rather than ones that are friendly to new users.

At least there isn't much on the lists that warrants 4+ weapons groups.

Also, I didn't see any with AMS. For whatever that means.

Edited by Felio, 19 June 2015 - 10:26 PM.

[Elizander]

I saw it very late (like last 1-2 days) so all I did was check the leading designs. I felt okay with them and since they had a significant lead I didn't bother voting anymore or checking the others out.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 19 June 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

Look at the other polls. The options are mostly the same as each other (almost exactly the same for the Griffin) and generally not good new player ideas.

How are the Griffin's bad ideas for a new player especially compared to AN LRM boat? The one you voted for doesn't even have TAG, it solely relies on NARCs and people to spot for it. Not that you can do much else with it, because the Trenchbuckets outside of the 7K really aren't very new player friendly anyway.