7 replies to this topic

[Breidr]

I recently acquired a 4G to replace to Jagermech that was on my deck before the tonnage change. I've looked into loadouts and noticed that a lot of the "suggested" kits don't include heat sinks.

Am I missing something, or do I just need to learn trigger discipline?

Running a common loadout: an AC/20 and 3 medium lasers, similar to my Gauss GI, but with a noticeable heat difference.

[800]

Just learn discipline, but in general Grid Iron is way better than 4G. That is due to it's crazy quirks, projectile speed, range and noticeably better heat economy. There is just no reason to play 4G if you got GI, but 4G isn't broken, don't try to fix it because you can just screw it up more and waste c-bills. 4G is just there for f2p people which can't afford GI. Or just for guys feeling nostalgy for that 26th century grandpa.

[DivineEvil]

Breidr Breidsson, on 06 June 2015 - 04:36 AM, said:

I recently acquired a 4G to replace to Jagermech that was on my deck before the tonnage change. I've looked into loadouts and noticed that a lot of the "suggested" kits don't include heat sinks.

Am I missing something, or do I just need to learn trigger discipline?

Running a common loadout: an AC/20 and 3 medium lasers, similar to my Gauss GI, but with a noticeable heat difference.

The problem is not the heat fatigue or trigger discipline. When you place one weapon or another, you have to understand what you're going to use it for and when. AC/20 is the centerstone of the HBK-4G. You need to use it at all possible situations and work on your playstyle to utilize the thing to the maximum potential. Considering that, thee Medium Lasers are secondary weapons. You only use them when it makes a difference. If you use MLs all the time, you're wasting precious heat capacity using weaker, less focused weapons despite having AC/20 at your disposal.
Use MLs only if:
- You have less than half of heat buildup.
- You need extra damage to destroy a component.
- You need extra damage to finish the damaged enemy.
- You have a good chance for additional pin-pointed damage on overheated enemy.
- Your AC/20 has been knocked out or ran out of ammo.

[Modo44]

The 4G is strictly a AC20 mech. The lasers are only a backup/low heat weapon system, hence the overall high heat. If you want to use lasers more, consider the 4H (AC10 plus many MLs), or 4P (up to 9xML).

[990Dreams]

---<Begin loadout information>---

HBK-4G "Slammer"

Packing your usual AC/20 and triple Medium Laser loadout, this Mech has an additional surprise of two Machine Guns to deal some critical hits once the armor has been removed by an AC/20 shot or two. Carrying a decent amount of ammo for all weapons, the Mech carries two additional heatsinks, making it more efficient than other HBK-4G builds, and it also runs an STD 210 Engine, boosting its speed by just a slight enough edge to make it all the more surprising to the unsuspecting.

---<End loadout information>---

Edited by DavidHurricane, 06 June 2015 - 06:24 AM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Assuming you're running something like this, you need to do 3 things.

1 - Choose your shots. With only 21 AC20 shots, you don't have the ammo capacity for long-range AC shots and other high-risk or partial-damage shot attempts. Sure, late game if your team is dominant and you are chasing a lone enemy light and you still have ammo left, go for it. Otherwise, though, your ammo is just too tight to allow for wasteful spending.

2 - Pick your engagements. Try to hit your targets during brief engagement windows, limiting the amount of return fire and making heat buildup less of an issue. Servicing targets while moving from cover to cover is a great way to accomplish this, as is picking an assault to follow and support.

3 - Trigger discipline. I like to put my arm lasers on one trigger, my AC20 on a second, and my head laser on a third. This maximized my control without sacrificing ease of use. Doing something similar will allow you to tailor your heat generation based on your current heat load and the needs of the moment. Sometimes it's better to forgo firing the head laser, while at other times it's best to alpha and shut down (or take override damage) in order to finish somebody off. The more you play the better you'll become at judging the circumstances.

As for heat sinks, there's something to keep in mind here. The way MWO implements DHS, they do -1.4 heat/second. The exception? Integrated engine heatsinks. Those are true 2.0s (trudubs). You get more heat dissipation from a 250+ engine than you do from the same total number of DHS with a 245 or lower rated engine, since 250 is the rating cutoff for 10 integrated heat sinks (10 is the maximum). Every 25 rating below 10, you lose an integrated heat sink and have to add an external one, which if you're running DHS will lower your overall heat dissipation.

For example, you could run this build, but you lose a little heat dissipation and speed in exchange for the extra ton of ammo. Swapping back to 3 tons of ammo would let you throw in an extra DHS, but the heat efficiency gain is probably not worth the lost 10 kph. Using the build as linked might be worth it, especially as you learn to play the mech, as that extra ton of ammo greatly eases the burden on your AC20 useage, allowing you room to take riskier shots or to make mistakes.

DavidHurricane, on 06 June 2015 - 06:21 AM, said:

---<Begin loadout information>---

HBK-4G "Slammer"

Packing your usual AC/20 and triple Medium Laser loadout, this Mech has an additional surprise of two Machine Guns to deal some critical hits once the armor has been removed by an AC/20 shot or two. Carrying a decent amount of ammo for all weapons, the Mech carries two additional heatsinks, making it more efficient than other HBK-4G builds, and it also runs an STD 210 Engine, boosting its speed by just a slight enough edge to make it all the more surprising to the unsuspecting.

---<End loadout information>---

It's notably less heat efficient than any 225 or higher engine rating build, due to the mechanics of engine DHS. Unless your total DHS count goes over 10, you lose dissipation any time your engine rating goes below 250. This build is a perfect example of the consequences of lower engine ratings on heat efficiency.

800, on 06 June 2015 - 04:53 AM, said:

Just learn discipline, but in general Grid Iron is way better than 4G. That is due to it's crazy quirks, projectile speed, range and noticeably better heat economy. There is just no reason to play 4G if you got GI, but 4G isn't broken, don't try to fix it because you can just screw it up more and waste c-bills. 4G is just there for f2p people which can't afford GI. Or just for guys feeling nostalgy for that 26th century grandpa.

The Grid Iron is worse than the 4G at running an AC20. The Hunchback with an AC20 simply lacks the tonnage to use MPLs, and using the GI instead of the 4G sacrifices energy weapon heat efficiency for a little bit of extra range, while losing velocity and range from the AC for no gains.

Only run a GI if you want to run a Gauss/MPL build, which in turn is going to be a very high risk build as it requires an XL to do properly. For an AC20 build (STD engine only, on account of the critical slot requirements), the 4G is clearly superior.

Edited by Levi Porphyrogenitus, 06 June 2015 - 06:49 AM.

[TripleEhBeef]

You can get four tons of AC20 ammo on a STD 250 build if you strip your arm armour down a lot. Knock them both down to 14 points on Levi's build above and that frees up another ton.

Arm loss is neither common or critical on a Hunchback, so trimming the arms down isn't as risky as it is on other mechs.

[Koniving]

Breidr Breidsson, on 06 June 2015 - 04:36 AM, said:

I recently acquired a 4G to replace to Jagermech that was on my deck before the tonnage change. I've looked into loadouts and noticed that a lot of the "suggested" kits don't include heat sinks.

Am I missing something, or do I just need to learn trigger discipline?

Running a common loadout: an AC/20 and 3 medium lasers, similar to my Gauss GI, but with a noticeable heat difference.

There isn't a whole lot of need for heatsinks to be honest. Choose when to AC/20 and when to use the MLs. Don't spam them at the same time, they aren't really that compatible.

I personally run SPLs and MGs to compliment my AC/20.

Some examples; this 13 minute endurance base defense.


Hunchback in a native territory.


Other weapon concepts that I personally use include but aren't limited to:
Triple MG and SPL + dual PPCs.

Triple AC/2 and SLs or SPLs. (Example) (Vid was recorded when ghost heat first came into existence and AC/2 wasn't listed). (Fastest firing rate demonstrated is Normal Fire, the other slower firing rates are using a macro.)

LB-10X, twin MG + triple SPL or triple ML. Example 1 on River City (7 kills 711 damage). Example 2. Post Clans Example 3 on hot map versus Clan mechs [esp Stormcrow].

All examples given are before quirks; the HBK has a -15% heat generation on energy weapons, making it even COLDER than demonstrated.

If you find the heat of an AC/20 to be too much, try an AC/10 or LBX. Rather than 6 heat per shot it'd be 3 heat (2 heat for LBX) and fired every 2.1875 seconds (with HBK 4G basic ballistic quirks) as opposed to the AC/20 being fired every 3 seconds.

In 9 seconds of constant fire you'll have generated
15 heat with an AC/10,
10 heat with the LB-10X,
24 heat with the AC/20
(excludes all other weapon systems and does not factor in any cooling ability).

In the same 9 seconds with triple AC/2 fired at the same time you'd generate 45 heat; but you'd never use that long range weapon system at the full firing rate (that's one of the two real reasons for macros; a fair chain fire rate helps with the excess heat as well as keep up a semi-solid firing rate without going full auto).

Edited by Koniving, 06 June 2015 - 06:57 AM.