36 replies to this topic

[Bolter01]

Hey, I have been exclusively playing IS for nearly 1 year. Have a great assortment of mechs & modules, love lights and enjoy all.
I played IS as I always 'backed the underdog', it seemed Clan had the better of everything.

Just bideing my time before I went to the Dark Side and started a Clan collection, now we have the sale!

Funny thing is I also hear I lot of recent posts about IS being OP and Clan being limited and nerfed? (laser duration, etc)

I have used Clan trials, guess the only real way is to 'get amongst it!'

So I would be interested to know of the experiences of those that use both Clan & IS.

Thanks

[mailin]

Clanners put out a lot more damage initially, but generate more heat to do it. If you run a clan mech it is possible to wreck some serious mechs, but the longer the engagement lasts, generally the more IS tends to dominate.

[IraqiWalker]

Clans tend to do better at range. Also, their weapons don't work the same way the IS does. I'm not talking about the different firing modes.

I am talking about ranges on lasers. For example, the ER-ML is actually a decent long range weapon. That means for medium, and short range engagements, you should be looking at the MPL, SL, and SPL.

With a clan mech your choice is not just going to be the chassis, but which pods to put in (since you only used trials, I am not sure you know that you can swap different parts, and hardpoints). Generally speaking, the pods with more hardpoints, tend to incur some negative penalty (For Example, the Timberwolf S side torsos are not equal. The Left Side torso gives you two missile hardpoints, and 1 ballistic. While the right one gives you 2 missile hardpoints, 1 energy, and 1 ballistic. So the negative quirks on the left side torso are less than those on the right one). Pods that have fewer hardpoints tend to make up for it by giving the mech bonuses to movement, such as better torso twist speed, or range, and improved arm movement.

So either your mech carries fewer weapons, but moves like a ballerina, or you pack it full of guns, and it moves a bit slower (in terms of twisting, the movement speed is never changed), and is hotter. Also, unless you're packing pulse lasers, and SRMs, try to stay away from IS short range brawlers, they tend to have the edge.


TL;DR: Clans have Damage over Time, and win stare down contests. IS has Pinpoint Front Loaded Damage, and win ambush fights. Especially the close range kind.

[Anunknownlurker]

For the average player (like me) I am not sure there is a tremendous difference between IS and Clan, each has its advantages and disadvantages and, honestly, it comes down to the skill of the pilot.

Stormcrows and Timber Wolves (yes, even following the recent nerfs) are really good but, in all honesty, I haven't found a Clan mech to match my Cicadas (maybe the Shadowcat in Wave III will do that?)

I think PGI is having a hard time balancing what are, in the backstory of the game as far as I am aware, superior mechs (Clan) with inferior (IS) and that balancing act has led to certain IS chassis being better than they maybe should be, after all, MWO is not the tabletop game where you can have a small number of good mechs vs a larger number of less good mechs and still have a balanced game. This balancing has also led to the best performing Clan mechs being smacked with the nerf hammer so now the pendulum has swung back to IS for a bit.

Clan Mechs - I enjoy the Nova most of all, followed by the Stormcrow. I am not so good with the Timber Wolf and have only just got the Mad Cat so can't really comment on that yet, although I am enjoying frightening Firestarters with 6 x Streak 4s...I may not kill them but they don't stick around for long . As far as Clan lights go, well they are too slow for my tastes. I don't play assaults for either IS or Clan.

Like I said, it's down to the pilot in the end so take advantage of this sale to pick up whichever Clan mech takes your fancy (I went for the Nova first because I just think it looks badass!) or maybe the mech you have had the most trouble against in your IS games and find out what makes it good.

All the best and welcome to the dark side, we haz cookies!

[mailin]

While many argue that the Stormcrow and Timberwolf are currently the best clan mechs out there, I am currently really enjoying running the Nova. With the proper loadout and omnipods heat really isn't as big of an issue as many would have you believe.

[Ano]

The only thing to beware of is that some of the suggested builds you're likely to see around (the builds with lots of ERML and/or ERLL) for the Timberwolf and Stormcrow have become a chunk more difficult to play, as they require you to hold the laser on target for longer than before to get full damage.

Pulse lasers seems to work well enough (although giving up some range)...

[Smag]

Bolter01, on 21 May 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

Hey, I have been exclusively playing IS for nearly 1 year. Have a great assortment of mechs & modules, love lights and enjoy all.
I played IS as I always 'backed the underdog', it seemed Clan had the better of everything.

Just bideing my time before I went to the Dark Side and started a Clan collection, now we have the sale!

Funny thing is I also hear I lot of recent posts about IS being OP and Clan being limited and nerfed? (laser duration, etc)

I have used Clan trials, guess the only real way is to 'get amongst it!'

So I would be interested to know of the experiences of those that use both Clan & IS.

Thanks

Now would not be a good time.

Even on a sale, clan tech is decidedly much more expensive than IS. That's starting at the baseline, and adding more and more purchases as you need to swap out omnipods.

In addition, the two most viable chassis were just nerfed (one of them into the grave).

So, yes, you are paying more for less. Do it after the next patch.

[Koniving]

Bolter01, on 21 May 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

Hey, I have been exclusively playing IS for nearly 1 year. Have a great assortment of mechs & modules, love lights and enjoy all.
I played IS as I always 'backed the underdog', it seemed Clan had the better of everything.

Just bideing my time before I went to the Dark Side and started a Clan collection, now we have the sale!

Funny thing is I also hear I lot of recent posts about IS being OP and Clan being limited and nerfed? (laser duration, etc)

I have used Clan trials, guess the only real way is to 'get amongst it!'

So I would be interested to know of the experiences of those that use both Clan & IS.

Thanks

I -- when active -- actively use both sides' mechs. Each offers a slightly different flavor. Clans have a DPS (damage per second) focus while the IS is more focused on FLD (front loaded damage). Clan heavies tend to be faster, Clan lights tend to be slower (if not for PGI engines and engine limits they would be identically fast to faster to IS lights with few exceptions such as the Locust). Clan mediums tend to be much faster than the typical IS medium. Clan assaults however are generally slower.

Another interesting thing to note is that IS lights (with few exceptions such as the Lynx) tend to be significantly larger than IS lights. Clan mediums are kinda mixed but they certainly have a presence. Clan heavies really push the size envelope on both horizontal plains (left/right, front/back) making them large targets. Clan assaults are HUGE in some way or another. Also all Clan mechs from Heavy and Up have huge cockpit hitboxes (Hellbringer being the exception; that one is literally a damn dot!)

IS mechs have the only one-hit-kill-on-any-mech weapon combination: Twin AC/20s. Go for the cockpit.
Not even the Direwolf has such a combination as 4 Ultra/20s will actually only do 16 damage on the very first hit from the first bullets.

Having such an ability would go against the "Silly pilot, ambushes are for Inner Sphere!"

Clans generally have weaker legs, too, and very high concentrations of front armor (more than you'd ever dare to put on your IS mechs) so on the off chance it's possible to get behind a Clanner (the only thing more difficult than this is petitioning to get ECM changed) you can get a really easy kill really quick.

Far as yourself in one... Remember the price of range is long laser times. Hold those beams on it, Ghost Busters! The ACs are superior on paper but between burst times and potential damage spread an Ultra/20 is more like an ultra/15. Your extra range even on the ACs does help this problem, however! SRMs are functionally identical even in range, but do less damage. Streaks have extended range (makes sense on TT because the chances of actually getting a hit roll where every single missile could hit is about nil and Streaks are meant to save ammo; makes no sense in MWO since they never miss).

Clan Active Probe (Clan version of BAP) is very different in its anti-ECM abilities. It has similar range. But it will only counter a target you have targeted. It won't counter just any ECM, exclusively the ECM you have targeted... and that counter stops immediately if you lose sight of the target.

Oh don't forget, you can add/remove lower arm actuators. Make sure to tick them in when you can. Clan ballistics of any sort (except MGs), and Clan ER PPCs require that you remove them if placed in the arm. Get around this by torso mounting them.
For example:

I've done the same with an adder too; moved the ER PPC to the torso and replaced the arm weapons with SRMs that I can aim anywhere.

Keep in mind, initial expenses for Clan mechs are because XL + DHS + Ferro and/or Endo all at once. IS mechs once you add those cost about the same. Later expenses are because some weapons are at cruel prices.

[Leone]

Now, just so you know, I brawl. I build brawlers, and I'm not afraid to get in close, even when piloting an LRM mech. So when I tell you that Clan are built more for brawling, know that I have tested this. This is not to say they are better, just that their weapon system are geared that way. Got streaks? Get a lock, keep the field of fire clear. Hiding in cover an wanna pop out an lrm? stay outta cover whilest the whole volley fires off. Wanna shoot something with an ac? Lead em with the reticule. Wanna pop out an laser something from afar? Gotta say outta cover long enough for the beam to do it's thing. Want to shoot three large lasers? Accept the ghost heat, or come outta cover more often.

This makes LBXs, Gauss and Pulse lasers your quick damage weapons if'n you wanna try popping and trading, or extensive torso twisting to shield.

You can try hiding and trading, but your just not as good as the IS at it. Embrace the Brawling.

~Leone, Raid Leader of the Crimson Hand.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Koniving, on 21 May 2015 - 11:29 PM, said:

Clan Active Probe (Clan version of BAP) is very different in its anti-ECM abilities. It has similar range. But it will only counter a target you have targeted. It won't counter just any ECM, exclusively the ECM you have targeted... and that counter stops immediately if you lose sight of the target.

How does that work, given that ECM makes someone untargetable in the first place?

[IraqiWalker]

NecessaryWeevil, on 22 May 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

How does that work, given that ECM makes someone untargetable in the first place?

THey are targetable within 180 meters. So just press "R" when you are looking at them, and their ECM will be disabled.

[SpiralFace]

Jimmy DiGriz, on 21 May 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

I think PGI is having a hard time balancing what are, in the backstory of the game as far as I am aware, superior mechs (Clan) with inferior (IS) and that balancing act has led to certain IS chassis being better than they maybe should be, after all, MWO is not the tabletop game where you can have a small number of good mechs vs a larger number of less good mechs and still have a balanced game. This balancing has also led to the best performing Clan mechs being smacked with the nerf hammer so now the pendulum has swung back to IS for a bit.

Thing to remember about Battletech Proper, Its essentially a Table top Wargame / board game. Mechs are balanced around the fact that clearly inferior mechs are less point cost which adds to their spamability. (A stock Jagermech for instance has the same long range offensive punch as a catapult its same size, but the Catapult is better in every single way compared to the jager, but costs nearly double the points as the Jager.)

Clan tech is pretty much the same way. Its meant to be superior and force a more tactically conscious play-style because you will more then likely be outnumbered 2 to 1 or more in IS vs Clan fights.

The changes to the game are to reflect the mentality that clans need to be brought into line 1 v 1 with their IS counterparts.

[IraqiWalker]

Jimmy DiGriz, on 21 May 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

I think PGI is having a hard time balancing what are, in the backstory of the game as far as I am aware, superior mechs (Clan) with inferior (IS) and that balancing act has led to certain IS chassis being better than they maybe should be, after all, MWO is not the tabletop game where you can have a small number of good mechs vs a larger number of less good mechs and still have a balanced game. This balancing has also led to the best performing Clan mechs being smacked with the nerf hammer so now the pendulum has swung back to IS for a bit.

SpiralFace, on 22 May 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

Thing to remember about Battletech Proper, Its essentially a Table top Wargame / board game. Mechs are balanced around the fact that clearly inferior mechs are less point cost which adds to their spamability. (A stock Jagermech for instance has the same long range offensive punch as a catapult its same size, but the Catapult is better in every single way compared to the jager, but costs nearly double the points as the Jager.)

Clan tech is pretty much the same way. Its meant to be superior and force a more tactically conscious play-style because you will more then likely be outnumbered 2 to 1 or more in IS vs Clan fights.

The changes to the game are to reflect the mentality that clans need to be brought into line 1 v 1 with their IS counterparts.

To put that in perspective, A single Timberwolf Prime is worth about 2700+ points.

For taht same price I can bring in 6 AC 20 urbies. (In an open field, the T-Wolf wins hands down, but in an urban map, the urbies will have a field day).

[Koniving]

NecessaryWeevil, on 22 May 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

How does that work, given that ECM makes someone untargetable in the first place?

Under normal circumstances, there's a window between 180 to 200 meters that you can target them without a jam. So for a Clan mech with CAP, you can do it (with those limits) anywhere from 0 to 200 meters and be able to counter them.

Now, I don't know if this is true anymore... But BAP and CAP extend sensor ranges by 25%. In old school MWO, BAP's increased sensor range also gave you a larger "targeting" range. So instead of just 180 to 200 meters of safe targeting without having to counter, it actually went up to 250 meters where you could target comfortably. Same is/was true of CAP. Also of note, extended sensor range module also gave an increase by the same amount (advanced sensor range II) to the target-safe range but it is the percentage attached to 200 meters and it is additional (so 25% percent advanced sensor range + 25% BAP = 50% incease range.. not 25% improved on top of the 25% improved, which would make for something awesome yet overpowered.)



If the above holds true / unchanged, you can safely target an enemy ECM mech from 0 to 250 meters and can then counter them with your Clan Active Probe. Works similar to Beagle but manual instead of automatic.

Total potential ECM target range with both ASR II + CAP/BAP = 300 meters max. That is...if that still holds true.
(In theory a Command Console or targeting computer on top of that could do more, but at that point... why? Well I could see with Clan Streaks since they have a max range of 360 meters.

From what I understand they extended its range but I'll be honest I haven't cared about the exact details.

Edited by Koniving, 22 May 2015 - 11:50 AM.

[Bolter01]

Wow, thanks guys, some great info & quite a bit I didnt know.
Im guessing its the Timber Wolf, that has been 'nerfed to the grave'?
I may get some Nova or Crows. Overall, if nothing else, I am sure having some Clan mechs will give me some insight into how to kill them better

Much appreciated all 07
Cheers

[IraqiWalker]

Bolter01, on 22 May 2015 - 02:22 PM, said:

Wow, thanks guys, some great info & quite a bit I didnt know.
Im guessing its the Timber Wolf, that has been 'nerfed to the grave'?
I may get some Nova or Crows. Overall, if nothing else, I am sure having some Clan mechs will give me some insight into how to kill them better

Much appreciated all 07
Cheers

In all honesty, the clan players are whining a bit too much about these nerfs. The mechs are still supremely good, they're just not so easy to use that a 3 year old can get a 500+ damage game.

The insight point is solid though. I learned a lot about killing them, thanks to being a wave 1 pilot.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

FYI, clan QQ about the laser nerfs is way overblown. Even with extended durations and longer cooldowns, the two mechs (Stormcrow/Ryoken and Timberwolf/Mad Cat) that have negative quirks are still the top dogs of the MWO roster.

I main IS-pure on this account, but I've got a clan alt that I've been playing for the event this weekend. I have three Ryokens mastered and two Mad Cats, one finished with Basic and the other just getting started (clan mechs are pricey up-front, and I've been working on my recent IS purchases of late, so I don't haven't been putting the time into growing my clan account mech stable yet). Based on my experiences on both sides of the tech gap, clans have nothing to complain about. If anything, they have a tendency to over-gun themselves, because of having so much payload space and such light and compact weapon choices. It can be a real challenge some times to build a clan mech that won't explode when you pull your triggers.

cSRMs are a straight-up upgrade over IS versions, as are cSSRMs. Clan pulse lasers are universally potent, and clan ER lasers can reach out and touch someone at absurd ranges. Sure, there are a few minor trade-offs, amplified somewhat by the negative quirks that the top two chassis recently got, but all in all clan tech is at a minimum as good as quirks IS stuff, and in the best mechs it can be consistently better than even the most abused IS builds.

[Satan n stuff]

mailin, on 21 May 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

While many argue that the Stormcrow and Timberwolf are currently the best clan mechs out there, I am currently really enjoying running the Nova. With the proper loadout and omnipods heat really isn't as big of an issue as many would have you believe.

The Nova isn't nearly as bad as many clan players make it out to be, if properly used it can vaporize mechs twice it's tonnage with ease. It is generally a high risk, high reward kind of mech due to it's typical extremely hot loadouts but the risk is definitely worth it.

[IraqiWalker]

Satan n stuff, on 24 May 2015 - 08:49 AM, said:

The Nova isn't nearly as bad as many clan players make it out to be, if properly used it can vaporize mechs twice it's tonnage with ease. It is generally a high risk, high reward kind of mech due to it's typical extremely hot loadouts but the risk is definitely worth it.

Slap 12 SLs on the prime, with 4MGs, it's more than a HBK-4P in alpha damage (alpha here means, one arm at a time), plus MGs for the sexy sounds.

[Leone]

I personally run my NVA-S with dual AMS instead of machine guns, but I got wrecked ina glorious Nova on Nova duel against one with four machine guns, so yeah, they work.

Also, if you want variety, then the Stormcrow or the Timber wolf are still decent choices (I hardly got nerfed, since my mechs weren't all lasers.) But if you just want to wreck mechs, and be an effeiecnt CW drop choice, go Nova. You'll probablly just go 12 lasers, but whew, the scrap you can leave in your wake.

~Leone, Raid Leader of the Crimson Hand