15 replies to this topic

[Christopher Hamilton]

Old discussion, there should be no friendly fire, because friendly fire isn't.

maybe the motivation not to fire at friends is not high enough.
same for accidental discharges or running over people.

[IraqiWalker]

While I do agree with imposing a penalty. The problem is that team damage is quite often outside the control of the shooter. I've had many times where my lasers begin to burn, and then a teammate suffering from a stroke decides to run in front of me. Should I be penalized because he's a moron?

The other day I got a team kill that wasn't even my fault. I'm in my DWF, lasers burning into the enemy mech's side, and we've been duking it out for about 4+ seconds now, and a teammate decides to jump his Huginn with no HP on it's one remaining leg, in front of me, trying to score the kill with his MGs. He got the kill, and died because my lasers removed what was left of his leg. It wasn't even my fault, the guy popped out of nowhere, and dropped between me, and my target, whom I had been actively engaging for a while now. I tried to move my fire away from him, but it was too late.

[Christopher Hamilton]

i think it is technically possible to determine wether you are standing still and firing while someone runs in there - thats where the "crossing fire lines" penalty should come in.
i dont think that you should be penalized for others rushing in your fire, thats why i suggested:

penalty ideas:
if your team damage is higher then your damage to enemy, you do something wrong. (you where effectively playing for the other side)
if your team damage is e.g. higher then 200 or 250 or such, your doing something wrong. (thats what - 10 ac20 shots, 40 medium lasers ?)

reward ideas
if you didnt damage team at all, you done something right. (holding fire, pulling shot off target when firing line was crossed, etc. which may have cost you damage or other rewards)
if you cross behind firing mechs, you done something right. (didnt cross someones fire path, i think that should carry 20xp or such each time...)

the kill stealers - i dont care about kills, thats off no use as a metric in this game. if someone needs them, they can have them.
if they suicide for that, you already get a penalty as is right now (team kill), so there is no change. but i think that kind of behaviour of running into fire to steal kills should be penalized, too. e.g. by waiving their kill bonus xp.

EDIT: oh, and thanks for that nice locust guide. one of the most valuable mechs in game i think - unless you get team damage or run over at start... :/

Edited by Christopher Hamilton, 09 June 2015 - 12:34 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

My pleasure, the Locust was one underrated, and under-estimated mech back when I first wrote it. I like a lot of those suggestions. Also, I'm not sure if you know this already, but Kill stealing does have it's own form of reward/penalty. The kill reward is based on damage dealt, so if someone only dealt 1% of the total damage the mech suffered, they only get 1% of the reward, plus the last hit reward. While I did 90% so I still get a significantly higher reward.

[Xoco]

My favored mechs (due to their aesthetics) happen to be lightest-in-class mechs (Locust/Blackjack/Dragon). This means that to have competitive weapons, I'm giving up lots of armor. I'm talking 1 to 3 armor on my back side.
A lot of time, your friends will shoot you right as the match start to "test their weapons". This usually result in me getting cored. That's really not fun.

Any friendly fire during the first 15 seconds of the match should have severe penalty.

[IraqiWalker]

Xoco, on 11 June 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

My favored mechs (due to their aesthetics) happen to be lightest-in-class mechs (Locust/Blackjack/Dragon). This means that to have competitive weapons, I'm giving up lots of armor. I'm talking 1 to 3 armor on my back side.
A lot of time, your friends will shoot you right as the match start to "test their weapons". This usually result in me getting cored. That's really not fun.

Any friendly fire during the first 15 seconds of the match should have severe penalty.

On a side note. If you want, I can help with builds for those. I have several designs that are very good, while using max armor.

[Syn Pryde]

I wish as clan you could use something fast as a tuned up locust... *sigh*

or have "second line" mechs aka used inner sphere thingies in your drop deck...

[IraqiWalker]

Syn Pryde, on 14 June 2015 - 04:05 AM, said:

I wish as clan you could use something fast as a tuned up locust... *sigh*

or have "second line" mechs aka used inner sphere thingies in your drop deck...

You mean like the Arctic Cheetah coming out very soon? If done right, it's gonna be GG lights. That thing moves at 142.6Kph (with tweak), JJs, ECM, Endo, FF, and all kinds of clan goodies.

Before anyone brings up the Firestarter, the ARC-C pretty much matches it, if not surpasses it, in firepower.

[Gladewolf]

This doesn't address careless driving, like the clown that ran in between my King Crab and an enemy Dire Wolf while we were exchanging fire (how do you NOT see that much AC fire?!)

[Twilight Fenrir]

Gladewolf, on 14 June 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

This doesn't address careless driving, like the clown that ran in between my King Crab and an enemy Dire Wolf while we were exchanging fire (how do you NOT see that much AC fire?!)

It's annoying how often I have to scold people about walking infront of my King Crab That is the ONE mech, you ABSOLUTELY do not get in the way of. When I'm swinging my dual AC/20s around, you don't want to be infront of me. lol

[Nightmare1]

Twilight Fenrir, on 15 June 2015 - 06:23 AM, said:

It's annoying how often I have to scold people about walking infront of my King Crab That is the ONE mech, you ABSOLUTELY do not get in the way of. When I'm swinging my dual AC/20s around, you don't want to be infront of me. lol

I got my first TK in a long time last weekend when a Jenner decided to zip in front of my CN9-YLW. I AC/20'ed him by mistake!

Guess who's fault it was though? Did you know that moronic Light Mech pilots are entitled to a free pass on the "Don't cross the firing line!" rule? It's true! Apparently, if you sin by apologizing to the pilot and advising him not to run across in front of Mechs with big guns, that pilot is entitled to bite your head off in chat and VOIP for the rest of the night, regardless of how many times you run into him later.

[Dee Eight]

Twilight Fenrir, on 15 June 2015 - 06:23 AM, said:

It's annoying how often I have to scold people about walking infront of my King Crab That is the ONE mech, you ABSOLUTELY do not get in the way of. When I'm swinging my dual AC/20s around, you don't want to be infront of me. lol

Do you also end up scolding other KCG users when you're spectating and see them group firing the AC20 and keep shutting down ?

[VinJade]

to be fair De most of the time accidental Team Damage is from
A: a friendly runs in front of your weapons as you fire
B: missiles rain down on them
C: they go to get that killing blow and gets nailed by a friendly
D: they don't pay any attention to what is going on

I find it annoying that I get marks against me when the friendly runs in front of me, leg hugs the enemy, ect and gets hit by missile fire or laser fire.

to be honest we shouldn't have marks against us at all, only TK marks against us if we accidentally kill a friendly but then even that is iffy.

[Dee Eight]

I'm not sure WHAT the magic damage number is that scores a penalty, but 96 points only scored me one penalty last night which cost me a whole 10 second delay. I dropped artillery on an enemy missing armor with exposed structure trying to get it killed... and of course after the smoke marker appears five guys swarmed to it to try and get that kill themselves. For ten shells that I only managed 96 points of team damage... kinda disappointed. One of them stole the kill too. Maybe I need the artillery accuracy module too.

[VinJade]

@De
then I am dealing more LRM damage from out of sight than I thought because I tend to get two or more marks against me per match.

To be honest I think they need to do something with the current system and try and fix it because it isn't our faults that some joker gets into our path as we fire or get nailed by missiles.

and clearly from your example you are getting punished for their greed & stupidity.

[Dewey Quinn]

This may be an old topic, but they have refined the penalty system, and even the way team damage is calculated, quite a bit over the years.

I think it is pretty balanced now. The penalties are not too harsh because friendly fire can happen in any match.

Story time: I came looking for this topic because I just finished a match where I was legged and I was surrounded by enemies so I called down an artillery strike on my own position. I got the suicide but I also got a team kill because one of my badly injured teammates came rushing in to help me. I felt awful about it.

I was curious about how much damage an artillery strike actually does to friendlies or if any damage is lessened for friendlies. It seems like it is, but maybe that's because most of the time I stop firing, angle my laser away or otherwise try not to hurt the teammate that just stepped in front of me. Some weapons are worse than others. I have had a Gauss rifle hit a teammate in the back because he stepped right into it when it had already left the gun (long range shot). Same with PPCs.

Anyway... the system seems fair now.