717 replies to this topic

[Will9761]

So far, l love this system of MASC and its advantages in the video. I wonder how many people are gonna pull a "Peter Griffin" by starting some Tokyo Drifting or NASCAR action lol?

I also hope we get to see this little critter again after four years of waiting:

Come on home little guy, there are plenty of Timber Wolves and Mad Dogs who need a good itch.

Edited by Will9761, 12 June 2015 - 06:30 PM.

[TELEFORCE]

Sereglach, on 12 June 2015 - 05:48 PM, said:

That brings another point . . . what other MASC mechs (particularly my beloved lights) could they implement:

In the current game time line, a Cataphract variant that has MASC: the CTF-3L. There's also two Wolverine variants that have MASC, the WVR-7D, and the WVR-7K.

I wonder how speed tweak will affect the performance of MASC...

Edited by TELEFORCE, 12 June 2015 - 06:38 PM.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Odanan, on 12 June 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

PGI, now you added MASC to the game, you can add these variants:

Cataphract CTF-3L
Wolverine WVR-7D
Wolverine WVR-7M

Unfortunately, these are the only IS variants with MASC so far...

That Cataphract looks pretty terrifying, actually o.o I wouldn't be surprised at all to see that hitting the gift store in the next couple months. I imagine they'll let us Wave III owners enjoy our exclusive little toy for at least a month before adding in IS ones. But, there's nothing at all to make them do anything with regards to that. Personally, I'd like to see that MASC 'Phract hit at the same time, or shortly after we get our Koalas. When we get our Shadow Cats at the very latest...

TELEFORCE, on 12 June 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

I wonder how speed tweak will affect the performance of MASC...

It doesn't. The Koala in the MASC demo video already has speed tweak. It has no bearing on MASC. Which, in retrospect, is kind of obvious... Speed Tweak increases the running speed of the mech, it doesn't affect its walking speed. And MASC doubles the walking speed.

[Stingray Productions]

Will9761, on 12 June 2015 - 06:26 PM, said:

Come on home little guy, there are plenty of Timber Wolves and Mad Dogs who need a good itch.

Oh how I've waited for my little friend! I sure hope he finds his way, I wanted him much more than the locust, definitely seems more iconic to me too!

[Wanderingpaws]

MASC + JumpJets + Executioner= ♫I Believe I Can Fly!♪

[Pezzer]

Bloodweaver, on 12 June 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

Highlander has similar plates along the sides, and has never been a problem. This really is a non-issue, aside from the "cockpit view not matching the 'Mech model" element. But that has been a long-standing issue, and affects other 'Mechs much more drastically.

I just don't like the fact that having a special version of the mech variant lowers my cockpit visibility. If all the Executioners had that same blind spot, I would be fine with it. It's also really odd that the cockpit view doesn't match the external view, idk how something like that could pass through QA without being noticed.

As I said, I'm fine with having less visibility if that's how the Mech was built. What I don't like is my extra bonus geometry getting in the way, a la the poor Locust (so glad that variant's main weapon is a long range laser).

But I digress, I really like everything else that has been reviewed. I'm surprised by the heavy MASC leg damage, and imagine that it will be slightly lowered in the future (but if it isn't, that's fine with me). I also hope that they make MASC either have a slightly longer duration or no penalty if rapidly toggled. I'd rather use MASC to quickly turn around/make it harder for ACs to hit me than for a pure speed gain. I can imagine using it in half-second bursts to avoid taking as much damage over open terrain (avoiding SRMs and ACs) will be a common tactic if there's no toggle penalty.

Edited by Pezzer, 12 June 2015 - 07:38 PM.

[Ace Selin]

Liking how MASC is working in those vids.

[Wildstreak]

So MASC, if it works well, do you think they will add more missing Phoenix Mechs? 2 Wolverines use MASC at this time.

[Ace Selin]

Wildstreak, on 12 June 2015 - 09:43 PM, said:

So MASC, if it works well, do you think they will add more missing Phoenix Mechs? 2 Wolverines use MASC at this time.

As others have said i expect more variants (with MASC) to come in the gift store, then for normal purchase.

[Scout Derek]

Shame Betty doesn't say "MASC Engaged"

[Nightshade24]

Scout Derek, on 12 June 2015 - 10:52 PM, said:

Shame Betty doesn't say "MASC Engaged"

I would assume this is to prevent bitching betty from spewing "MASC Engaged" "MASC disengaged" over nad over as you tap it and stuff.

[Túatha Dé Danann]

Hmm... the implementation of MASC looks good, but the parameters are a little radical.
The time you have it activated until it hits the red mark is a little short. For a piece of equipment taking 4 tons and 4 slots I could see that time frame being multiplied with 3... the leg damage should be more like the fall damage you take (both now look completely out of relation if you compare them) and it should begin to generate additional heat in the red zone and once you hit 100% you should start taking leg damage, not at 75%.

Other than that, I like the basic implementation.

[Nightshade24]

Túatha Dé Danann, on 13 June 2015 - 12:30 AM, said:

Hmm... the implementation of MASC looks good, but the parameters are a little radical.
The time you have it activated until it hits the red mark is a little short. For a piece of equipment taking 4 tons and 4 slots I could see that time frame being multiplied with 3... the leg damage should be more like the fall damage you take (both now look completely out of relation if you compare them) and it should begin to generate additional heat in the red zone and once you hit 100% you should start taking leg damage, not at 75%.

Other than that, I like the basic implementation.

Well the thing is MASC size and tonnage depends on weight class, for lighter mechs it's barely any weight. For assaults it makes it more agile then an XL 400 battlemaster and able to do distant jumps that only medium mechs can do.

Keep in mind this thing was meant to be like that. MASC wasn't a get out of jail free card to go faster or another version of speed tweak.

It was an emergency thing to use wisely or you will suffer heat or leg damage, or even worse: your actuators freeze and you can't use your legs anymore. or your legs behave if like your legged even though they are not gone.

I like it happening at 75% heat and I wish ammo explosions do a similar thing for normal heat around 80%. However your idea of additional heat would be nifty for something in the 70%+ margin and when you get 75%+ higher you have more and more higher chance of damage the higher your heat is, you may scave through 76% with no damage maybe if your lucky but hitting 80 will get you soemthing and 100 will be a bit more lethal.

Maybe some mechs will have quirks to handle masc more.

[anonymous161]

The Flea will never be in this due to the speed it is capable of...no one would be able to catch it would just be a very long match since most likely would be the last mech and just waste everyone's time.

[Grey Ghost]

Navid A1, on 12 June 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

Then how's that those "STUFF" does not happen to non-(I) mech?

Never understood why our FoV isn't aligned with the Pilots head position by default. Which for me at 1920x1200 is right at 80 in most Mechs.

[Nightshade24]

Darth Bane001, on 13 June 2015 - 12:43 AM, said:

The Flea will never be in this due to the speed it is capable of...no one would be able to catch it would just be a very long match since most likely would be the last mech and just waste everyone's time.

That already happens with most light mechs in game. Ironically the ones that often do this is the heavier slower raven and spider instead of the lighter locust or commando which are faster.

Also as long as it can not out run bullets or missiles, it can be added. you also forget about engine caps on mechs, it could be capped to go 150 with MASC and later on engine cap increased when hit reg improves. Will go around 180 kph with MASC on but risks blowing it's legs off.

[Túatha Dé Danann]

Nightshade24, on 13 June 2015 - 12:39 AM, said:

Well the thing is MASC size and tonnage depends on weight class, for lighter mechs it's barely any weight. For assaults it makes it more agile then an XL 400 battlemaster and able to do distant jumps that only medium mechs can do.

Keep in mind this thing was meant to be like that. MASC wasn't a get out of jail free card to go faster or another version of speed tweak.

It was an emergency thing to use wisely or you will suffer heat or leg damage, or even worse: your actuators freeze and you can't use your legs anymore. or your legs behave if like your legged even though they are not gone.

I like it happening at 75% heat and I wish ammo explosions do a similar thing for normal heat around 80%. However your idea of additional heat would be nifty for something in the 70%+ margin and when you get 75%+ higher you have more and more higher chance of damage the higher your heat is, you may scave through 76% with no damage maybe if your lucky but hitting 80 will get you soemthing and 100 will be a bit more lethal.

Maybe some mechs will have quirks to handle masc more.

Well, take the Shadowcat. Take out MASC and put the 2 tons directly into the reactor (in theory) XL270-->XL300
Now you have a piece of equipment that boosts your speed temporarily and the difference is not that huge anymore.

On bigger engines which weight more than smaller ones (exp. rising curve) MASC may make a little more sense, but on smaller to medium engines, you want to put that tonnage directly into the reactor instead of "wasting" it for MASC.

That being said, you do not only put in 4 additional tons but also 4 slots AND have a piece of equipment you cannot remove. If you put all those things together on a mech that only has 25 tons of pod space on a freaking 95 ton mech, MASC begins to hurt, esp. if you can only use it for something like 10 seconds and then your 4 tons and 4 slots are useless.

Edited by Túatha Dé Danann, 13 June 2015 - 01:06 AM.

[Nightshade24]

Túatha Dé Danann, on 13 June 2015 - 01:03 AM, said:

Well, take the Shadowcat. Take out MASC and put the 2 tons directly into the reactor (in theory) XL270-->XL300
Now you have a piece of equipment that boosts your speed temporarily and the difference is not that huge anymore.

On bigger engines which weight more than smaller ones (exp. rising curve) MASC may make a little more sense, but on smaller to medium engines, you want to put that tonnage directly into the reactor instead of "wasting" it for MASC.

That being said, you do not only put in 4 additional tons but also 4 slots AND have a piece of equipment you cannot remove. If you put all those things together on a mech that only has 25 tons of pod space on a freaking 95 ton mech, MASC begins to hurt, esp. if you can only use it for something like 10 seconds and then your 4 tons and 4 slots are useless.

you go talk about how changing the engine is better, then you go on and say you can't remove MASC on clan mechs.

Do I have to remind you that you can't change the engine of a clan mech? That kind of knocks your problem with the fact that clan MASC can not be removed.

Also at least in the executioners situation: 4 Tons of MASC provides more speed (11 kph) then the engine rating that is 4 tons heavier then stock. Which is quite a lot for an assault mech. Especially the agility, acceleration, and Deceleration.


However, I must add that we haven't seen how MASC performs on the Shadowcat yet. For all we know the boost is different due to a curve on mechs weight class or in the clan situation balanced to the engine it has stock.

Right now most hard evidence we have on MASC is on the Executioner and thus at the very moment our main focus for now is based on the executioner and as of right now it's rather useful on the executioner.


From memory it's often not very good to complain about something before it's released... look at the cataphract for eg, one of the first mechs people screamed it'll be useless/ ruined and will be DoA

however in reality it turned out to be the top mech in MW:O for nearly a full year. That's a better record then the victor or Timberwolf or Stalker (with both the Reins put together)

[Túatha Dé Danann]

Nightshade24, on 13 June 2015 - 03:09 AM, said:

you go talk about how changing the engine is better, then you go on and say you can't remove MASC on clan mechs.

Do I have to remind you that you can't change the engine of a clan mech? That kind of knocks your problem with the fact that clan MASC can not be removed.

You know that I'm talkling about the trade-off and not about what can be done? We have fixed JJ now, but we had dynamic ones before. We have a fixed Flamer in the Adder, but Russ talks about making it removable. We have fixed engines and MASC now which pose a problem for many mechs and we have fixed upgrades like Endo/Ferro which hurts mechs, esp. the bad ones.

You see the pattern? Good.

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Also at least in the executioners situation: 4 Tons of MASC provides more speed (11 kph) then the engine rating that is 4 tons heavier then stock. Which is quite a lot for an assault mech. Especially the agility, acceleration, and Deceleration.

Now try to outbalance that with 4 medium lasers. Or 4 tons of free gauss ammo. Again: Trade-off.

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However, I must add that we haven't seen how MASC performs on the Shadowcat yet. For all we know the boost is different due to a curve on mechs weight class or in the clan situation balanced to the engine it has stock.


Right now most hard evidence we have on MASC is on the Executioner and thus at the very moment our main focus for now is based on the executioner and as of right now it's rather useful on the executioner.

That would be part of the cross-balancing discussion between Clan mechs. There is also the Gargoyle or the running fridge that need more love.

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From memory it's often not very good to complain about something before it's released... look at the cataphract for eg, one of the first mechs people screamed it'll be useless/ ruined and will be DoA

Never heard anything about the Cataphract being bad. Sorry. But I foresaw that the Gargoyle, the Ice Ferret and the Myst Linx will be bad... which they are. And I'm now telling, that the trade-off (4 tons, 4 Slots, fixed equipment) for MASC in the Executioner is bad... in a mech that is already not good, which makes it worse. It won't be as bad as the Gladiator, but it will be junk compared to the Dire wolf next to it.

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however in reality it turned out to be the top mech in MW:O for nearly a full year. That's a better record then the victor or Timberwolf or Stalker (with both the Reins put together)

Which is also part of the stagnant behavior when IGP still had their hands on the game. Things are balanced faster now. Which is good btw.

[Ovion]

JRR1285, on 12 June 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

I really hope that a good implementation of MASC leads the way to other 'mechs like the Firemoth and Flea.

The MASC system appears to increase base max speed by roughly 30%.
(Pre Speed-Tweak)
This means that any Mechs with a non-speed tweaked potential max speed of 118 kph, can not have MASC. (Tweaked, that's 130kph).
Meaning any mech that might go faster than that, cannot be released with MASC, or go over the current limit of 172kph.

So that's your cut off.

This means all existing IS lights apart from the Urbanmech (97.2) and Panther (115.7) cannot have MASC variants.
All Clan lights, apart from the Arctic Cheetah (129.6) feasibly could have MASC variants. (so long as those variants didn't have a base potential max speed greater than 118kph)
All other existing mechs that weigh 45T or more, apart from the Centurion-D (126.4), Trebuchet-3C (126.4) and Ice Ferret (129.6) could have MASC / MASC variants. (so long as those variants didn't have a base potential max speed greater than 118kph)


Additionally, the Firemoth goes 162.0 base, so that's doubly out.
It'll go 178.2kph with Speed Tweak, and 210-216kph with MASC.

The Fleas potential max speed is 137.7 kph, and as it comes with MASC, that means that's out too.