40 replies to this topic

[Omegasama]

I have been playing CW for a while now and the spawn camping is getting quite annoying. It is not a realistic situation for combatants to be in either. Dropships should not fly into an area filled with enemies. They should instead find an alternate drop location. Maps with multiple drop zones should have no problem with the dropship moving to a new location.

If the entire team is camping the only dropzone in a single location for each team setup, then the dropship should spawn at the opposing side's dropzone.

Most FPS games have a number of spawn points and do not intentionally spawn players where they will be immediately killed.

The dropship could possibly be fooled by an ECM in some situations, but the overall spawn camping issue needs to be addressed. Player enjoyment is suffering in the game's current state.

[Monkey Lover]

Russ already gave in to spawn cry babies. He is going to make it so drop ships are worthless and unit will never be able to upgrade them. Spawn killing will be dead next week.



Want to know how real teams take care of spawn camping?

1 they don't let people into their spawn

If that fails they MOVE THE PEOPLE into other spawns.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 09 June 2015 - 05:55 PM.

[Leone]

Leone, on 02 June 2015 - 05:31 PM, said:

So, since this topic keeps popping up I'll just bring up an old response.

Spoiler

I play to have fun. I also enjoy brawling. I will often brawl into the enemy as far as possible before losing my mech. I have leveled my Tactics/Mech to a point where I can understand when to halt brawling and find cover, whether to cool off, reposition or wait for allies, in order to prolong the brawling I can manage with that mech, thereby getting more brawling in in one game. Sometimes I can even over come those enemies which do not retreat, and move forward to engage those that do.

Sometimes this means I end up brawling in someone elses spawn, with my closest opponent being the poor mechwarrior who just dropped into my engagement range.

I don't go into CW planning on spawn camping. I go into CW planning on brawling, and sometimes spawn camping happens.

~Leone, Raid Leader of the Crimson Hand

[Void Angel]

Fixing a broken mechanic isn't "giving in." Particularly in pug drops, it can be difficult to impossible to move people to the other dropships - and such a cumbersome workaround shouldn't be required.

The amazing hypocrisy of nearly everyone I've seen talk down "spawn cry babies" is immense. If spawn camping doesn't really help them win, because "you're getting owned if spawn camping happens anyway," why are they crying that it's being taken away? The entire argument falls apart, and their hostility - to the point of making up slurs - is inexplicable. On the other hand, if they do gain a significant benefit from spawn camping, how is that benefit justified by potentially winning a single engagement and then camping under the anemic guns of the enemy dropships? Because "you can just swap dropships?" But if that's the case there's no real advantage and we're back to square one. You can't have it both ways, and the arguments invariably self-destruct from trying.

Spawn camping is fun only for the spawn camper. There is no counterplay to getting hammered to scrap, or even killed, before your feet hit the ground, and it's only reasonable that players want to be allowed to play the game. Win or lose, they just want to be able to shoot back, and that's not to much to ask for - nor are those who do so "cry babies."

[Omegasama]

I am not crying over a game, I am just pointing out that a game mechanic is being exploited. A game mechanic that many other games that I play have fixed. Take a page from CoD or Halo or Battlefield. The game chooses a safer spawn point for you, sometimes you still get killed there, but your odds are better. Battlefield lets you pick your spawn as a different way to solve the problem.

The dropships have pilots and sensors, they (the AI) should see a hot landing-zone and divert to a secondary location. A helicopter pilot carrying a squad of soldiers is not going to drop them in the center of an enemy group in real life so why would the dropship pilot?

I recommend looking at the ways other games with spawn points solved their problems to the developers.

Higher powered lasers are not a bad idea, since the dropships are much larger than mechs and have larger power supplies, it makes sense for them to mount bigger, stronger weaponry.

I like the first response from Monkey Lover, just don't let the enemy do it. I guess the basic idea is sound, but in practice it does not work out that way.

[Monkey Lover]

Moving people works 99% of the time. If you get spawn camped its because your drop commandor screwed up and didnt move you or he screwed up by getting killed.

Drops ships are now almost worthless. There were plans to make these things great. More depth to the game but in the end pugs cryed about light rushes and spawn camping so russ is going to remove more startegy. The game is turning into a 48 mech pug match.....

Know what is going to happen next week? These 12 man comp teams who were "camping your spawn" will now be camping your drop area doorway.They will blow you away as soon as you walk out. Nothing changed other than you get to stand around before you die.

Omegasama, on 09 June 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

I like the first response from Monkey Lover, just don't let the enemy do it. I guess the basic idea is sound, but in practice it does not work out that way.

Only pugs get camped because they dont care about the members of thier team. People never get camped on my team. If they try to camp its even worse for them because they're not willing to move. My team will pick them off sooner or later. I sit back 1000m do a little sniping and move people.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 10 June 2015 - 07:23 AM.

[PunisherMark]

In TT you would just die when you tried to attack a dropship if not in significant numbers. Dropships have tons of weapons and dont suffer "heat".

I think what they are doing by upping the weapons and making it smoke you center torso should work.

[Mystere]

Void Angel, on 09 June 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

Fixing a broken mechanic isn't "giving in."

Just because people say it's broken does not mean it really is. And Russ did not "give in" but rather "caved in".

People like myself are complaining against it's removal because that habit of PGI must be put to a dead stop. We all know that given enough whine, PGI will become weak kneed and eventually cave in.

[sdsnowbum]

Mystere, on 10 June 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

Just because people say it's broken does not mean it really is. And Russ did not "give in" but rather "caved in".

People like myself are complaining against it's removal because that habit of PGI must be put to a dead stop. We all know that given enough whine, PGI will become weak kneed and eventually cave in.

No in this case it is broken.

Dropships are armed to deter enemy mechs from coming close to the mech they drop, yet nobody is being deterred.

The respawn mechanic and dropdeck were so people can respawn and use the other mechs in their dropdeck, yet people are not able to play all mechs.

[Void Angel]

Mystere, on 10 June 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

Just because people say it's broken does not mean it really is. And Russ did not "give in" but rather "caved in".

People like myself are complaining against it's removal because that habit of PGI must be put to a dead stop. We all know that given enough whine, PGI will become weak kneed and eventually cave in.

Just because people say it wasn't broken doesn't mean that it really wasn't. You're going to need to do more than insist on emotionally-laden terms ("caved in," really? that's a synonym for "gave in," it just sounds a little worse) and throw out fallacious appeals to common knowledge here.

[Gladewolf]

At the very least, the spawns that were placed in objective areas needed to be moved, so that players aren't pretty much forced to run over a spawn to get at objectives. As for those complaining about losing their spawn camping edge, we'll see how you do next week.

[Monkey Lover]

Gladewolf, on 10 June 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:

At the very least, the spawns that were placed in objective areas needed to be moved, so that players aren't pretty much forced to run over a spawn to get at objectives. As for those complaining about losing their spawn camping edge, we'll see how you do next week.

What is the use of units being ablet to upgrade drop ships if they're never in the fight? Other than letting lance leaders change the drop locations Russ basically removed drops ships because of pugs.

Because pugs can't kill light mechs he basically removed the objectives. CW will be a 48 mech public Q by christmas.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 10 June 2015 - 01:39 PM.

[Big Tin Man]

Nobody would be complaining about spawn camping if the dead player could choose where they dropped.

Instead you have to rely on a competent drop commander re-assigning you to a non-hot lance, which is a pug match is not realistic.

Either way, I for one welcome the return of the OP dropships and the pain they will bring the clam invaders.

[Gladewolf]

......No drop ship upgrade feature has been implemented Monkey, we don't know how it will even work if PGI does implement it. I'd assume it would be used for a different game mode, or allow a 12 man to for instance drop all 12 mechs in one location. In any case, I don't see putting a Union, or Overlord class dropship In the path of PUGS that are actually kicking your arse for a change, very sporting...do you?

The new implementation will not affect the ability of good units to win matches. In all honesty, it will probably speed up match time for those of us that aren't in it just to grief PUGS.......or farm C-bills as some will tell you.

[RubyFire]

Crying because you and your team are incapable of putting up a good fight isn't a broken mechanic, it's other players taking advantage of your bad play.

[Wildstreak]

[Monkey Lover]

Gladewolf, on 10 June 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

......No drop ship upgrade feature has been implemented Monkey, we don't know how it will even work if PGI does implement it. I'd assume it would be used for a different game mode, or allow a 12 man to for instance drop all 12 mechs in one location. In any case, I don't see putting a Union, or Overlord class dropship In the path of PUGS that are actually kicking your arse for a change, very sporting...do you?

The new implementation will not affect the ability of good units to win matches. In all honesty, it will probably speed up match time for those of us that aren't in it just to grief PUGS.......or farm C-bills as some will tell you.

Sporting of me? I never asked to fight pugs. I dont like games where we kill 48 to 5.

I do like the idea of using the unit coffer for something. Give us more of a reason to play this game. Give mercs a reason to fight. A lot of long time players have left in the last month. I haven't seen the Marik house leaders in some time. CW is dieing and pugs are not the people playing cw.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 10 June 2015 - 07:06 PM.

[EightBitKnight]

Players asked for a movable spawn points for the most part based on the discussions iv read, not a drop ship upgrade. Russ screwed up on his own not because of players, if PGI ever took time to listen to there player base we would have a lot less problems.

Edited by EightBitKnight, 12 June 2015 - 11:15 PM.

[YCSLiesmith]

the solution to spawn camping WAS to be better at this game and roll in a group, but after the next patch the solution to spawn camping is going to be to coordinate ejections with a friend so that two dropships fly in and eradicate the entire opposing team with their souped up lasers and NKVA aimbot

[Wildstreak]

The solution to spawn camping is to never have respawns in the first place.