17 replies to this topic

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

A quick google suggests in tabletop, you can't customize mechs? Is this something that has only exisited in battletech video games? Or am I missing something?

[FupDup]

It probably depends on which rule books or house rules you use.


Some people used stock only or GTFO, and sometimes even didn't let players choose WHICH stock mechs you got.

Some people let you do refits, but for time and money.

Some people let you go balls-to-the-walls and customize all the things.

[Templar Dane]

Rezn0I2, on 10 June 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

A quick google suggests in tabletop, you can't customize mechs? Is this something that has only exisited in battletech video games? Or am I missing something?

You could but it was expensive. Its been a long long time but I specifically remember having a rifleman with 4 large lasers, more armor, and additional heat sinks.

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

I see. I'm surprised its so open to interpretations, but I can see the merit in all three.

[Bill Shakespear]

There have been custom build and customization rules for tabletop since the beginning (at least when I started playing back in the late 80's).

It is really up to the group you are playing with or the game master to decide how crazy you can get with customization.

[Paigan]

I would find it very fitting and fair if customizing a Battlemech in MWO would take significant amount of time and/or money.
Like 1-10 million C-Bills and a day or so of not being usable.
And potentially an instant effect payable by MC.

Someone else described it very well in another thread:
Lore-wise, modifying a Battlemech is possible, but it is very complicated, etc.

This would properly reflect that they are not Omnimechs that can switch out modules on short notice, but rather solidly designed vehicles that can only be "tinkered" with but are not really modular.
As is stands not, the actually monolithic Battlemechs are way more modular than the actually highly modular Omnimechs, which from my (clanner) perspective is hugely unfair.

Of course such a fair and appropriate mechanism could never be implemented in MWO as 90% of the community would go haywire.

Edited by Paigan, 10 June 2015 - 10:03 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

FupDup, on 10 June 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

...

Some people let you go balls-to-the-walls and customize all the things.

I am of this crowd.

[GeistHrafn]

lordtzar, on 10 June 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

You could but it was expensive. Its been a long long time but I specifically remember having a rifleman with 4 large lasers, more armor, and additional heat sinks.

And time consuming. Mechs laid up for 4-6 months for refit.

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

We could have it balanced by c-bill earnings. Say you have a 4 mech drop deck. For every mech, the c-bill value would wiegh against what you earn in battle. Customizing your mech would give a multiplier to this effect. So if you took 4 stock locust and killed 4 custom dires , your earning would be huge. Helps promote the idea of "I could salvage that mech!" This also ties well into to clanner bidding and such. Theres more bragging rights, and higher levels of play then now will be available to those that seek even higher challenges. Thoughts?

Edited by Rezn0I2, 10 June 2015 - 10:13 AM.

[1453 R]

It's a tabletop game. The limitations on 'Mech customization are "what can I get the GM to let me get away with?"

There were semi-official and official rules for customizing 'Mechs, but it needed time and money, as others have stated, and also came with risk of extra penalties to the unit from imperfect installation or hardware/software conflicts. Some GMs disallowed custom refits entirely, some GMs threw out the penalties, and some GMs ran "Gimme Your Best Shot" nights where people came in with complete, from-the-ground-up custom 'Mechs and all played free-for-all Solaris to earn the Frag King Belt.

People did whatever they liked in the TT game, man. The rules are a guideline there, as they are for every PnP roleplaying game.

[Dimento Graven]

1453 R, on 10 June 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

It's a tabletop game. The limitations on 'Mech customization are "what can I get the GM to let me get away with?"

Actually that's not true, we all followed the customization rules as printed in the first edition rules (way before they added all the ancillary expanded rules for role play as house/mercenary units and BV's and such). No money necessary, you just needed a 'blank' 'mech sheet and a pencil...

[Nathan Foxbane]

There were also rules for the level of refit and more importantly, where it could be done. Want a fancy endo-steel chassis upgrade? It is a factory level refit so the cost is the refit expense itself, whatever the cost of shipping to and from the factory (or equivalent facility) is, and what it is costing you in missed contracts if it is your only 'Mech. Wait time is transit time to and from the refit location, time to manufacture the new internals (will be finished during shipping if you are lucky), and the time to do the refit itself plus any wait time for an available time slot (those manufactures can get busy). It is why most custom jobs stuck with the base internals because you can do almost anything else in a refit yard which could be found on most worlds that had battlemechs in their militia or, given enough time, be set up in the field. Things like swapping similar weapons took the least amount of time and could be done in the field without weeks to months of down time.

[Burktross]

FupDup, on 10 June 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

It probably depends on which rule books or house rules you use.


Some people used stock only or GTFO, and sometimes even didn't let players choose WHICH stock mechs you got.

Some people let you do refits, but for time and money.

Some people let you go balls-to-the-walls and customize all the things.

Whenever I played MekHQ campaigns, I always went for a more moderate approach.
I allowed modifying my mechs, but not to the balls to the wall "the only thing that separates chassis is tonnage" approach that you can go.

I imposed rules on myself such that...

• Engines could only be upgraded 3 hexes above or bellow stock
  
• Endo was only an option on mechs that came with it
  
• Full DHS was only on mechs that came with it, otherwise I'd be resigned to using "experimental" DHS
  
• And most importantly, weapon hardpoints

Say I have a hunchback 4P. The right torso has 6e mounted-- all 1 crit each.
I have two options per chassis-section
Expand or Consolidate

With expanding, I can double the amount of critspace usable for said weapon type-- so 12 crits available to energy, however, as a drawback, you can only have weapons equal to or lesser than the largest mounted weapon of that type. So in my hunchback's case, I could only have up to 12 one crit weapons.

With consolidation, I keep the amount of crits I can use, but make it such that any weapons can be used as long as the final critspace used is equal to the stock critspace. So I could (if I removed tonnage elsewhere) replace the 6 crits of medlas with 2 (3 crit) PPCs.

I found it gave purpose to choosing my mechs carefully :^)

[stjobe]

Rezn0I2, on 10 June 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

A quick google suggests in tabletop, you can't customize mechs? Is this something that has only exisited in battletech video games? Or am I missing something?

Dimento Graven, on 10 June 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

Actually that's not true, we all followed the customization rules as printed in the first edition rules (way before they added all the ancillary expanded rules for role play as house/mercenary units and BV's and such). No money necessary, you just needed a 'blank' 'mech sheet and a pencil...

TT has two sets of rules: The BattleMech Construction Rules (which are in the Tech Manual, pp 44-60), and the Customization Rules (which are in Strategic Operations, pp 188-189).

So what's the difference? Well, the BattleMech Construction Rules allow for creation of wholly new BattleMech chassis and chassis variants, whereas the Customization Rules allow for customization of already existing chassis and variants.

The construction rules allow you do do anything; the customization rules are much less forgiving - there are things you just cannot do in the field, or even in a well-stocked mechbay.

Somewhere along the line someone either misunderstood the difference between construction and customization, or just decided it was more fun the more you could customize.

In BT lore, a MechWarrior couldn't do very much customization of the 'mech they owned; the kind of customization we do in MWO between drops were things that would take more time, money, not to mention an army of skilled techs and access to a 'mech factory, that it'd be easier, faster, and cheaper to just switch 'mechs.

Not that 'mechs were generally available for switching, but there's always battlefield salvage, right?

Anyway, for a quick one-off with a few friends and a case of beer, sure the construction rules make sense to use if someone wanted to try something out. For longer campaigns though, the field refit rules are preferable.

One might argue that since what we're doing here is akin to that one-off with a few friends and a case of beer, using the construction rules as our customization rules is fine.

Some may argue that it's a tradition in Mechwarrior games, and they'd have a point.

Personally, I believe it could be just as fun to limit customization to the actual customization rules instead of the construction rules, but I know not everyone shares that opinion.

Edited by stjobe, 10 June 2015 - 11:42 AM.

[STEF_]

I've played with custom mechs a couple of time, but tbh using stock mechs and follow the lore and scenarios is much more fun, at least for me.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

The original board game came with robust construction rules, blank mech sheets, and a walk-through on how to create your own mechs. I think this was a short sighted decision on FASA’s part, as their future marketing strategy was to publish technical readouts, and lore material, all of which is undermined by publishing the construction rules.

So it depends on your perspective. If you just play the board game, construction rules are an integral component, you only need one book for unlimited variation. However, if you are interested in the lore of the Battletech universe and campaign supplements, then construction rules and customization are actually detrimental to campaign play as the FASA designed mechs are far from optimal, and balancing them against each other is an art.

[Dimento Graven]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 10 June 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

...

I think this was a short sighted decision on FASA';s part, as their future marketing strategy was to publish technical readouts, and lore material, all of which is undermined by publishing the construction rules.

...

OR... It was absolute genius as you had an army of rabid BattleTech nerds doing free 'mech design for you, so your own employees could be dedicated to other cash generating activities.

[reign]

For non omni mechs I would allow something similar rules in my games.

ER large laser could be fitted in a Large Laser slot (Uac 5 in a autocanon 5 arm)
Double heatsink (if you had room) refit
CASEII installed where CASE was.

ETC. But it would take time and money.

OMNI mechs were about what points your character had.

IS pilot custom mech 500+ strip pod space and buy equipment (still cant change base gear)
Clan pilot 0 custom - you take what the Galaxy commander superscribe
100 custom Prime or A or Galaxy commanders choice
+100 adds a letter
600+ you get to design a new one (fill the pod space) based on what technology is available.