38 replies to this topic

[MrMadguy]

The biggest problem of this game isn't weapon balance - it's maps' design. I won't write long post. I'll just give you an example.

1) If I'll equip Gauss and ERPPC - I will perform well on any map.
2) If I'll replace Gauss with AC/20 (so called mixed build) and will get Alpine Peaks - I'll lose half of my performance.
3) If I'll also replace ERPPC with medium lasers and will get Alpine Peaks - I'll become useless metal can.

So sniper performs well on any map, while brawler build sucks at half of maps. I don't know, which map I'll get next. What would be my choice? It would be obvious.

I'm not "Meta" player - I prefer diversity in my builds and therefore half of my builds are either brawlers or mixed ones. That causes me to suck and underperform on half of maps. So, there are two possible ways to solve this problem:
1) Remove so called "Meta" maps and balance all maps around all possible builds - every map should have enough cover for brawler 'Mechs to get close enough to snipers.
2) Let us choose our 'Mechs after seeing, what map we'll get, so "Meta" players, who have made "right decision" a priori won't have unfair advantage due to this fact.

[Kiiyor]

I think choosing mechs would be great - but the issue will be maps degenerating into their ideal type of warfare - i.e. A long range peekfest on alpine every time.

I think the PUG queues should have a drop deck system like CW. You see the map, and get to pick from 2-4 mechs.

[Theodore42]

I always figured there would be a dropship you could buy to bring some mechs to a drop. That way you could pick from a few depending on what map you've got. Even in some of my stranger builds I can still get performance out of them, I just might depend on my team a little bit more to do so.

[MrMadguy]

I came to this conclusion after deciding to get 20 rewards (I play Skirmish only) as fast as I can - i.e. via playing my Dire Wolfs only and realizing, that my Gauss+ERPPC Dire Wolfs builds are completely OP, while my mixed and especially brawler builds sucks hard. And problem not in weapon balance - problem is in the fact, that brawlers are too gimped by sniper-friendly design of most maps. That's why my most favorite maps - are role-balanced ones.

Edited by MrMadguy, 13 June 2015 - 02:14 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Theodore42, on 13 June 2015 - 01:47 AM, said:

I always figured there would be a dropship you could buy to bring some mechs to a drop. That way you could pick from a few depending on what map you've got. Even in some of my stranger builds I can still get performance out of them, I just might depend on my team a little bit more to do so.

Yeah... but you are not supposed to be a lord of industry you are a Merc. Most Mercs didn't have their own dropships more so their own Jumpships. It's part of the Expenses of being a MechWarrior. You either worked for the Crown and got free transport. You hired a Taxi, or you bought your own.

As for Map design. Well to be fair, not everyone is meant to have every Mech in production so selection was either my daddy's Mech, or what the Crown gave me.Most Mercs as a individual only have one chair to put their butt in, thus have to make the best of a bad situation.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 13 June 2015 - 02:25 AM.

[Theodore42]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 June 2015 - 02:22 AM, said:

Yeah... but you are not supposed to be a lord of industry you are a Merc. Most Mercs didn't have their own dropships more so their own Jumpships. It's part of the Expenses of being a MechWarrior. You either worked for the Crown and got free transport. You hired a Taxi, or you bought your own.

Oh that's cool. Maybe you could get the option to drop in the stock loadout of the mech you bring. People are always asking for more reasons to drop in stock loadouts, and it might increase the variety of loadouts as well, since people would be willing to bring riskier builds if they knew they could fall back to stock if they had to.

[Joseph Mallan]

Theodore42, on 13 June 2015 - 02:27 AM, said:

Oh that's cool. Maybe you could get the option to drop in the stock loadout of the mech you bring. People are always asking for more reasons to drop in stock loadouts, and it might increase the variety of loadouts as well, since people would be willing to bring riskier builds if they knew they could fall back to stock if they had to.

I have the option to drop in a Stock build already. Because it isn't the best option does not mean it is non existent.

[C E Dwyer]

I just think its funny, that people expect PGI to build a game around their builds, because they seem incapable, of adapting to the map they're on.

[Joseph Mallan]

Cathy, on 13 June 2015 - 02:45 AM, said:

I just think its funny, that people expect PGI to build a game around their builds, because they seem incapable, of adapting to the map they're on.

I know. I have a brawling range Atlas-S. It's my go to Mech. I drop on Alpine, and I know it will be a rough ride, and pull out a pair of big boy pants. People seem to thing that fights always happen where it is best for them! Silly silly people.

[Alistair Winter]

I just wish we could select camo based on the map

Also, this:

Edited by Alistair Winter, 13 June 2015 - 03:04 AM.

[bad arcade kitty]

real mech warrior should go where their clan sends them and fight with the weapon which their clan gives them!

[MrMadguy]

Cathy, on 13 June 2015 - 02:45 AM, said:

I just think its funny, that people expect PGI to build a game around their builds, because they seem incapable, of adapting to the map they're on.

Players, using Meta builds, don't need to adapt and I need? Why? Am I special? You know, MM doesn't balance teams, based on our builds. And until it won't do it, team, that has more 'Mechs in right builds - will get unfair advantage, as long as players, who use Meta builds. Role-based maps are designed with some ideal utopian picture of the game in mind - game, where only premade teams with ideal coordination and role distribution exist. They - can adopt, PUGs - can't. PUG matches are about RNG - no place for assumptions, that everything will work as intended by itself, there. Game won't balance itself - devs have to do it.

Edited by MrMadguy, 13 June 2015 - 03:06 AM.

[pyrocomp]

MrMadguy, on 13 June 2015 - 03:04 AM, said:

Players, using Meta builds, don't need to adapt and I need? Why? Am I special? You know, MM doesn't balance teams, based on our builds. And until it won't do it, team, that has more 'Mechs in right builds - will get unfair advantage, as long as players, who use Meta builds. Role-based maps are designed with some ideal utopian picture of the game in mind - game, where only premade teams with ideal coordination and role distribution exist. They - can adopt, PUGs - can't. PUG matches are about RNG - no place for assumptions, that everything will work as intended by itself, there. Game won't balance itself - devs have to do it.

Even in PUGlandia even on Alpine there are more then one way to play the map. Try it differently.

[bad arcade kitty]

fast mechs with brawling builds don't really have problems on alpine, assaults seem to suffer though

[Mudhutwarrior]

Anything like this you add will be exploited to death. I cannot imagine the whine fest after such a change. Alpine would be come peekaboo hill hide worse than it is now. Range modules and idiots tweaking to low resolution to see mechs behind obstructions would rule. Can't believe they haven't fixed that bug yet.

Would I like the option? I would say absolutely because I could have more fun with specialized builds but After years of seeing how people tweak any change into an advantage I have to say no

[TWIAFU]

pyrocomp, on 13 June 2015 - 03:19 AM, said:

Even in PUGlandia even on Alpine there are more then one way to play the map. Try it differently.

NO!

Everyone MUST rush to the mountain! If your not rushing the mountain in the "right" builds then the DEVs must balance the map around that!

[Hit the Deck]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 June 2015 - 02:22 AM, said:

...
As for Map design. Well to be fair, not everyone is meant to have every Mech in production so selection was either my daddy's Mech, or what the Crown gave me.Most Mercs as a individual only have one chair to put their butt in, thus have to make the best of a bad situation.

What's the equivalence of having a 'mech in today's world? Let's say a Hunchback. Like having an M1 Abrams perhaps?

[pyrocomp]

TWIAFU, on 13 June 2015 - 03:40 AM, said:

Everyone MUST rush to the mountain! If your not rushing the mountain in the "right" builds then the DEVs must balance the map around that!

Yeah, on the fly midmatch descending from the sky on golden Maradeurs... Heard that.

[jss78]

I think the ability to choose a mech would inevitably open up a whole new meta-game of optimizing mechs for a given map. Now, whether that'd be a good thing -- that's the real issue I think.

IMO it probably wouldn't be a good thing. I like how the current system forces some flexibility -- be it from having a flexible mech configuration, or from being able to adapt your tactics. It mixes things up a little and can discourage one-dimensional meta builds, and I like that.

[Novakaine]

From the pages of Annals of the Headhunters.
Tales of War and WTF in the Inner Sphere.

Time 0-Dark-30 Dropship Baseball.
"Well people you've can now consider yourselves briefed - again drop zone in 3 minutes!"
"Ah Col. we still got a er slight problem."
"WTF is it now mechwarrior."
"Well I see on the map here we're gonna be inserted behind Candy Mountain here."
"Problem?"
"Well sir I'm in my Stalker and it's a ***** climbing that hill."
"Not to mention I'm in my 3F, and ya know how I like to bring da rain sir"
"You know mechwarrior I don't see a problem here, but I do see a wise-ass."
"Seriously Col. if I had known I would have brought my Hunchie-J"
"Sooooo let me get this straight you want stop the mission so you can swap out mechs right."
"Well yes sir I think i'll perform much better ya know right gun the moar the fun."
"Hold on just a second soldier..........
As Dropship Baseball breaches the clouds Candy Mountain comes into view.
Baseball shudders as a massive drop bay door suddenly swings open, corrupting her sleek aerodynamic form.
On the ground sleepy and confused enemy mechwarrior's scramble to the battlemechs.
Some even stare up in awe at the 85 tons of metal hurtles down at their base.
Some captured prisoners would even claim they could here the sound of a screaming man minutes before the battle.
"Ah Col. what did you just do sir?"
"What do you think, I solved his location problem"
"And that's why your'e the boss."
"Roger that"