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Inner Spere Masc Variants--Circa 3050


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#21 Ovion

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 03:56 AM

View PostTastian, on 13 June 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

Or they could just release MASC for Innersphere and anyone can equip it. Like BAP, Endo, XL engines, DHS, etc...
And would break the game. : D.

On phone.
Will include explanation shortly.

#22 Ovion

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 09:01 AM

OK then. Back home, on PC.
Have keyboard and fingers.

MWO as a game, due to HSR / coding, etc, has a speed limit of 172kph.
Past that, things start getting... wierd, and break a bit.

The MASC system appears to increase base max speed by roughly 30%. (Pre Speed-Tweak)
This means that any Mechs with a non-speed tweaked potential max speed of 118 kph, can not have MASC. (Tweaked, that's 130kph max speed).
Meaning any mech that might go faster than that, cannot be released with MASC, or go over the current limit of 172kph.

So that's your cut off.

This means all existing IS lights apart from the Urbanmech (97.2) and Panther (115.7) cannot have MASC variants.
All Clan lights, apart from the Arctic Cheetah (129.6) feasibly could have MASC variants. (so long as those variants didn't have a base potential max speed greater than 118kph)
All other existing mechs that weigh 45T or more, apart from the Centurion-D (126.4), Trebuchet-3C (126.4) and Ice Ferret (129.6) could have MASC / MASC variants. (so long as those variants didn't have a base potential max speed greater than 118kph)

Additionally, the Firemoth goes 162.0 base, so that's doubly out.
It'll go 178.2kph with Speed Tweak, and 210-216kph with MASC.
The Fleas potential max speed is 137.7 kph, and as it comes with MASC, that means that's out too.

View PostKhobai, on 13 June 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

Yeah because we really need stalkers with masc going 85kph

NO.
Heh, there's no Stalker with MASC to my knowledge, so no worries there.
We do appear to be getting the Royal mechs now though, and one of those is an ECM stalker~

View PostA Hamster on a Wheel, on 13 June 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

Don't forget that Flea variant (FLE-17 from 3050Uu-I). There may not be any desire within PGI to make it happen, but it should be listed for posterity.

View PostMarauder3D, on 13 June 2015 - 03:07 PM, said:

Agreed, Flea is on the list. Perhaps they are concerned with differentiating it from the Locust? Being 20 tons, flightless and fast is a Locust thing. How to make Flea more unique I don't know.
As above, it'll break the game, and it's basically dead to PGI at the moment.

In TT it was a replacement for the Locust, and now we have the Locust.

View PostDr Hobo, on 13 June 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

By actually being the size of the direwhales leg? I mean the Locust PB can do like 169something? It would have to be at least that with an XL.
All Locusts can do 169.3.

View PostTarogato, on 13 June 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

Flea is locked to a 150 engine rating (151kph, or 179 in short bursts with MASC), it has a smaller profile, and more hardpoints. With PGI's Hardpoint Inflation System™, it would probably have as many hardpoints as Firestarters. It's really quite different from the Locust.
The last Locusts had no inflation.
Mechs get less inflation now than they used to.

Also, the Flea would likely get up to around a 170 engine I think. (Which I think is what you meant?)
As above, 137.7 untweaked, about 151 with tweak, and around 179 with MASC.
It's only just out too.

If we could get the limit safely up to 180kph, the Locust could go up to a 200 engine limit, then we could have the Flea too ~
Would bring the MASC limit up to 138kph potential speed too.

As to interesting, the lower engine cap and MASC, would potentially allow a slightly heavier payload, though the standard would still be 7T available (could probably push to 8T comfortably), with only around 4 slots free after armour, XL engine, masc, ES,FF, DHS.

In Timeline
2501 - FLE-4 - 4E (2SL, 1LL, Flamer)
2519 - FLE-14 - 1E - 15T! (1ML)
2523 - FLE-15 - 5E, 2B (2SL, 2ML, 1Flamer, 2MG)
3041 - FLE-17 - 5E (2SL, 2MPL, 1Flamer)
I mean, I'd get them, I'd enjoy them, the FLE-15 especially, with 5SPL and 2MGs would be good fun.
You could probably push for 4MPL on the FLE-4 too.
The FLE-17 would really just be a poor mans LCT-3M (which is currently a poor mans LCT-1E~)

If we could get the FLE-14 though, that'd be something unique, and very different. (Won't happen though)

#23 Khobai

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 01:21 PM

Quote

Being overpowered and being the best do not necessarily go hand-in-hand


Of course it does. when something is the best it means it consistently performs better than others. that makes it inherently overpowered in any system thats seeking equality. MWO wants all mechs to be equal... so any mech thats above the curve is overpowered to some degree.

#24 SirNotlag

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 02:30 PM

If the speed limit is 172 and the flea can push up to 179, just too fast, couldn't we bring the its speed down to 172 when using MASC and give the chassis itself another buff so it will still be viable in the game? I know that is not how its supposed to work but id like to see another light mech that can zip around like a bullet.

Maybe give it like 6 extra slots so it can more comfortably build with a smaller engine. Just a thought aside from Quirking the **** out of it.

#25 Y E O N N E

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 03:37 PM

View PostKhobai, on 14 June 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:


Of course it does. when something is the best it means it consistently performs better than others. that makes it inherently overpowered in any system thats seeking equality. MWO wants all mechs to be equal... so any mech thats above the curve is overpowered to some degree.


"Best" doesn't mean anything without qualifiers. The Timberwolf is the best generalist, allowing a team a lot of flexibility. However, it is not the best brawler, not the best sniper, and not the best skirmisher. It can perform adequately in those roles, but will lose to something more dedicated. A Griffin can pretty well trash a TBR in tight quarters. A Raven can trash one at long range. Neither of them are even in the same weight class. A Dragon will win a staring contest at mid-long range.

And again, it's not the 'Mechs themselves that are out of balance when we talk about the TBR or even Clans in general, it's the weapons and equipment. The Timberwolf would be bloody awful without the CXL, Clan lasers, and Clan SRMs. The Storm Crow, however, would be phenomenal even with an IS XL and IS weapons. Give the IS their LFEs, ER lasers, Light ACs, and Light PPCs, and the Timberwolf will be average because its hard-point locations suck and its silhouette is huge. Its speed will be a non-issue when Jagers can move in the same ballpark with high-mounted, quad LAC/5 and no glass-cannon syndrome. Or Blackjack-3 poptarts with quad LPPC and phenomenal heat capacity. Without any additional 'Mechs being released, the Clans would be, frankly, out-classed. Even without weapon quirks.

View PostSirNotlag, on 14 June 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

If the speed limit is 172 and the flea can push up to 179, just too fast, couldn't we bring the its speed down to 172 when using MASC and give the chassis itself another buff so it will still be viable in the game? I know that is not how its supposed to work but id like to see another light mech that can zip around like a bullet.

Maybe give it like 6 extra slots so it can more comfortably build with a smaller engine. Just a thought aside from Quirking the **** out of it.


The problem with the Flea is that it has no room for guns. It's really weird, but in a Locust you need the large engine because a smaller engine demands so many external DHS that you are out of slots. And for what? A half ton more of extra weapons payload? If you do a Flea up with MASC, you need to give it an engine cap of at least 180 or it will be so slot-starved it's depressing. If you give it an engine cap of 180, and you limit MASC to 172, then why would I want to waste slots and tonnage on MASC at all?

It basically comes down to this: there's very little incentive to run a slow 'Mech with burst speeds of 170+ for all of 5 seconds and the weapons payload of an XL190 Locust when you can run an XL190 Locust that runs around 170 without MASC with that same payload. It's too close. I think a Flea would be fun to play an I certainly support adding it to the game, but from a utility standpoint it's nothing more than a novelty.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 14 June 2015 - 03:44 PM.


#26 Ovion

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 04:34 PM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 14 June 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

The problem with the Flea is that it has no room for guns. It's really weird, but in a Locust you need the large engine because a smaller engine demands so many external DHS that you are out of slots. And for what? A half ton more of extra weapons payload? If you do a Flea up with MASC, you need to give it an engine cap of at least 180 or it will be so slot-starved it's depressing. If you give it an engine cap of 180, and you limit MASC to 172, then why would I want to waste slots and tonnage on MASC at all?

It basically comes down to this: there's very little incentive to run a slow 'Mech with burst speeds of 170+ for all of 5 seconds and the weapons payload of an XL190 Locust when you can run an XL190 Locust that runs around 170 without MASC with that same payload. It's too close. I think a Flea would be fun to play an I certainly support adding it to the game, but from a utility standpoint it's nothing more than a novelty.
Honestly.
I'd be OK if they introduced it with an engine cap of 145 (max to allow MASC).

This would give it a max speed (with tweak) of 129, and MASC speed of around 170.

I mean, you'd only get 7T of space to play with as you coouldn't use Ferro.
LCT-1E (The AC10 ammo is playing the role of MASC here)
But, it'd allow the Flea in game.
People would be happy.

I'd still use it.

#27 Marauder3D

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 07:12 AM

View PostSirNotlag, on 14 June 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

If the speed limit is 172 and the flea can push up to 179, just too fast, couldn't we bring the its speed down to 172 when using MASC and give the chassis itself another buff so it will still be viable in the game? I know that is not how its supposed to work but id like to see another light mech that can zip around like a bullet.

Maybe give it like 6 extra slots so it can more comfortably build with a smaller engine. Just a thought aside from Quirking the **** out of it.


I'd like to see a good creative solution to the Flea being int he game as well. As with any Light with a small engine, it could really use the "10 TrueDubs" quirk. That is a wholely different argument for another thread.





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