52 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

All I ever suggested was the 'improved cooling jacket' quirk for the Awesome so it could run energy loadouts well enough to compete with other mechs. That was 2 years ago I think. Now all the mechs are being quirked. My other ideas are to get rid of the Gauss Rifle de-sync if only one is used and give the Pretty Baby another large hardpoint of any type. ....ok.

[Mystere]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 June 2015 - 03:15 AM, said:

Well the more they listen to us, the further this game will get from their vision. How do you balance a 40 ton Mech with a 55 ton Mech? The 55 ton can carry more/bigger weapons more armor but a lower top end speed. That goes for ever weight class. The bigger Mechs will always have a durability advantage, quirking can do nothing to fix that. And lets look at the top dogs. What are they? 55 ton, 75 ton 100 ton.

And for some reason folks think that is wrong!

But, but, but, everything -- and the self-described "game designers" really mean everything -- has to be on a perfect 1-on-1 symmetric balance, everything.

[Mystere]

TexAss, on 14 June 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

The purpose of quirks was ALWAYS another one. Making sure to not have to nerf the holy trinity because they knew all the Timby-buyers who dished out money would go beserk if they suddenly realize "oops, the mech was designed too good, we have to nerf it".

Instead they decided to buff everything else and then even more to not have to nerf the Timby.

Thats all there is.

And yet the Timberwolf, along with the Stormcrow, were still nerfed anyway.

[process]

There is nothing wrong with quirks conceptually. Some mechs are inherently disadvantaged due to geometry or crummy hardpoints, and all the hitbox tweaking in the world won't fix these things. Quirks are also a way to inject flavor, otherwise what's the point to having X number of mechs with the same loadout?

To say some mechs aren't viable and to just give up on them is taking the lazy way out. It's the same with the crowd that wants new weapons and equipment to obsolete what we currently have.

Edited by process, 14 June 2015 - 12:29 PM.

[oldradagast]

Moldur, on 14 June 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

It's like people expect a Prius to be competitive in a drag race with a GTR and a Lamborghini. Some mechs should just be better than others. Period. Sorry.

Then why have the crap mechs in the game? It's not as if they cost a fraction of the good ones? No, cost is set based on tonnage and equipment, so the worthless ones cost plenty, too. Also, worthless mechs are a great "noob trap" - and a great way to scare away new players... which this game cannot afford.

Perfect balance is impossible to achieve as long as there are different mechs, weapons, and loadouts, but that is not an excuse to give up trying.

Edited by oldradagast, 14 June 2015 - 12:41 PM.

[EvilCow]

Injecting flavor is OK but the idea that everything can become competitive if you give it enough quirks is flawed, this "solution" is causing far more and worse problems that those it is supposed to fix.

Quirks should be hard capped to a reasonable values (15-20%), if a mech sucks so be it or review the real causes (geometry,slots etc).

I don't understand this reluctance to just adjust weapon values and introduce instead one convoluted fix after another.

[process]

EvilCow, on 14 June 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

Injecting flavor is OK but the idea that everything can become competitive if you give it enough quirks is flawed, this "solution" is causing far more and worse problems that those it is supposed to fix.

Quirks should be hard capped to a reasonable values (15-20%), if a mech sucks so be it or review the real causes (geometry,slots etc).

I don't understand this reluctance to just adjust weapon values and introduce instead one convoluted fix after another.

I'd hesitate to say the goal is to make all mechs competitive. Rather, I want to see all mechs be viable and worth their weight.

I'm completely in favor of fixing discrepancies without quirks as often as possible, and keeping quirks to reasonable values. I also think it's better to start by quirking non-weapon stats, like armor and agility, to limit power creep.

[Lyoto Machida]

Bush Hopper, on 14 June 2015 - 05:59 AM, said:

PGI became black and cool?

Doubtful.

But maybe they should start consuming narcotic cough syrup themselves...maybe then they'd have millions and a successful product.

[TexAce]

Mystere, on 14 June 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

And yet the Timberwolf, along with the Stormcrow, were still nerfed anyway.

Yes, when the 3rd wave of clan mechs was announced and they milked the 1st wave enough. There was no money anymore to get from them.

Notice this "coincidence"??

[Leiska]

PhoenixFire55, on 14 June 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

LOL ... as if your precious quirks didn't make dozens more other mechs absolutely useless. But whatever, stick to whichever delusions you want.

Even if we ignore IS vs IS chassis balance, without quirks everyone would be playing Clan mechs and Clan mechs only. You're completely delusional if you think quirks made more mechs obsolete than they made viable.

[Black Ivan]

The Quirks have always been a bad solution to the big balancing dilemma, but all PGi could come up with regretably.#

Instead of balancing out weapons so that all possible Mech variants are well usable they overquirk the medicore to bad Mechs so that all other variants of a class are not competitive anymore. That si why for example so man 5ss T-Bolts or 4N Stalkers are around.

[Davers]

Moldur, on 14 June 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

It's like people expect a Prius to be competitive in a drag race with a GTR and a Lamborghini. Some mechs should just be better than others. Period. Sorry.

But the Prius does have advantages and is more desirable in situations other than a drag race. Mechs not at the top of their weight class (or cursed with bad hit boxes or weapon placement) do need quirks to make them valid choices. By your logic PGI should only have made 4 IS mechs and 4 Clan mechs and then called it a day. Even in your example you show 2 different cars that you consider competitive in a drag race. Having more options is better than just saying, "The Lamborghini is the only car to use if you wish to drag race."