106 replies to this topic

[Jman5]

Over the years there has been a lot of back and forth about what sort of damage numbers people should aim for if they want to do well in Mechwarrior Online. 150? 200? 250? 300? More? With the influx of Clan XL engines and the many hitpoint quirks out there, we're likely at a high water mark of damage required to win a typical game. While most people would agree that a light should not be expected to do as much damage as an assault, but there aren't really any concrete numbers about what sort of damage an average Light or Assault on the winning team does.

Between games I started marking damage numbers of the assaults, heavies, mediums, and lights and split it between the losing team and winning team. This was done in the solo queue and all 3 game modes. I skipped over weekend event numbers to avoid any weirdness. Overall I recorded about 1,400 damage scores. Without further ado, here are the average* damage numbers.

Average Damage for a Winning Player by Weight Class

• Lights: 196

• Mediums: 312

• Heavies: 333

• Assaults: 383

There you have it. While I wasn't really surprised by the anemic light damage, I was surprised at how high the other three were. So next time you want to lash out at your team for being the ultimate noobs, consider whether or not you carried your own weight first.

If you're curious, the average damage for a losing player by weight class is

Light: 131.5
Medium: 170
Heavy: 232
Assault: 273

Fun Fact: If you compare average winner and loser damage of each weight class, the medium class had the greatest gulf. Does this mean that your team's medium performance is the most important make or break weight class in the solo queue? Or is it just an anomaly that will eventually even out? I don't know.

* Ok I said average, but technically I calculated median. It's basically the same thing except median is better if you want to cut through outliers on the high or low end.

Edited by Jman5, 12 June 2015 - 02:42 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Looks like rather low numbers.

I guess average does that, doesn't it. You prefer to forget the bad games.
What happens when you remove the sub 200 scores from the data?


If I'm in a light, I'd take 300 damage with disappointment, but certain that I at least did something. For anything that's not a Locust or Commando, at least.

If I do less than 600 in the WubShee, I'm very disappointed.


But, even that can be a bad measure. In a game with everyone more or less competent, not one of 12 people broke 400 damage, but our team only had one player under 200, everyone else was between 200 and 400 damage, spread pretty evenly.

Generally, you don't get that. Normally it's a couple players carrying the rest.

[Tristan Winter]

Depends on the build. If you did 400 damage with precision shooting using gauss, AC20 and/or PPCs, then it's quite different from just hosing targets down with LRMs and CUAC5s. That one statistic doesn't give any indication of how many CTs you exposed for your teammates. Maybe a light mech on your team was able to pull an enemy assault mech into the deep waters, leg it and then escape, effectively taking the assault mech out of the fight for the rest of the match untill the rest of the team came to clean up. He effectively killed it, but he only got 100 dmg for destroying the leg.

In a single match, the damage isn't a very good indication of anything, unless you're at either end of the extreme. E.g. 0 dmg is always bad, and 1000 dmg is almost always a solid contribution to the team. People are very quick to say "lol, I did 500 dmg and u did 400 dmg, therefore u R teh suxxors" but that kind of argument is dumb if you're just looking at the numbers.

Edited by Tristan Winter, 12 June 2015 - 03:08 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeah and the other thing to consider is not everyone takes every game as a warriors test of skill and military aptitude. Sometimes people are just derping, take risks they know they shouldn't take, or are just trying suspect builds for funsies.

Also, stuff can happen if you are AFK for a sec and when you get back lights are chewing on the ankles of your Dire. Your going to end up with really low damage in this case.. **** happens. I typically don't judge players based on a low score I see, I will judge when I am spectating though.

Interesting stats though..

[cSand]

I generally feel like a chump unless I do 5-6 hundo

[MandyB]

cSand, on 12 June 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

I generally feel like a chump unless I do 5-6 hundo

I agree, I feel like I didn't contribute enough if I don't break 500 damage. It happens often, the feeling bad part not the breaking 500 dmg part

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

So it takes on average 306 damage to kill a mech. So if everyone deals around 300 to 400 damage then your team did well. If you have a guy deal 0 damage, then the team needs to deal an extra 30 each.

[Jman5]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 12 June 2015 - 03:56 PM, said:

So it takes on average 306 damage to kill a mech. So if everyone deals around 300 to 400 damage then your team did well. If you have a guy deal 0 damage, then the team needs to deal an extra 30 each.

322 damage because on average you have more assaults and fewer lights.

[cSand]

MandyB, on 12 June 2015 - 03:21 PM, said:

I agree, I feel like I didn't contribute enough if I don't break 500 damage. It happens often, the feeling bad part not the breaking 500 dmg part

lol, I hear that

[Satan n stuff]

Jman5, on 12 June 2015 - 02:39 PM, said:

OP

I don't do damage, I do torsos. Center torsos, left torsos, right torsos, it doesn't matter. I pop them, or I strip them for someone else to pop, but I don't waste time or ammo shooting at things that don't need to be shot. Occasionally I do heads, when I'm feeling PPFLDy.
If I get anywhere near 1000 damage, it's because I just killed half the enemy team, or because I helped focus down all of them.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 12 June 2015 - 04:14 PM.

[ManDaisy]

well damage and kills go hand in hand. 1200 damage with 1 kill is horrible. 1200 damage with 4-5 kills is more like it. The most average kill to damage ratio is 4-kill 800 damage.

[Deathlike]

It depends on your loadout.

All weapons have a level of damage inflation due to natural inefficiencies or concentration of damage.

However, it's simply expected that a Light mech is a non-factor damagewise unless it lives long enough through the carnage.

I don't think there's a useful measurement unless PGI would spend a reasonable amount of time showing what weapons did effectively what damage in which areas... per person. This would require "refined telemetry", which is something PGI is unlikely to have available or will provide willingly anytime soon.

[keith]

really depends on the build. most mechs carry an alpha of 30, so anything less then 300 is bad. most ppl should be able to land atleast 10 shots in a match, assuming it registers. then i forgot how the "dam" score is calculated. if i remember interior parts u destroy or if u blow off a limb it counts as dam. that inflates the end dam number quite a bit.

[Xmith]

ManDaisy, on 12 June 2015 - 04:14 PM, said:

well damage and kills go hand in hand. 1200 damage with 1 kill is horrible. 1200 damage with 4-5 kills is more like it. The most average kill to damage ratio is 4-kill 800 damage.

Not really bad. It's how you look at it.

One kill with high damage means one less assault to worry about. One dead assault, one heavily damaged assault and a few assist can be very helpful to the team.

Edited by Xmith, 12 June 2015 - 05:34 PM.

[Felbombling]

This is interesting... thank you for the post. For myself, I simply multiply my Mech tonnage by 5 to determine my low water mark, and by 10 to signify a very good match. So, for example, I'd want to do at least 500 in my Dire Wolf, and would be very happy with a 1000+ damage game. As others have said, the numbers are all subjective and depend on the situation. How drunk was I? Is this Mech more or less stock without upgrades? Were my opponents just standing out in the open? Did I play well? Did we win or lose? How many kills did I get? Was I effective in killing enemy Mechs, not just spray and prey?

Based on your numbers, I think I will lower my damage number expectations. I must end a lot of matches totally bummed out without knowing it. lmao

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 12 June 2015 - 02:59 PM, said:

Looks like rather low numbers.

I guess average does that, doesn't it. You prefer to forget the bad games.
What happens when you remove the sub 200 scores from the data?


If I'm in a light, I'd take 300 damage with disappointment, but certain that I at least did something. For anything that's not a Locust or Commando, at least.

If I do less than 600 in the WubShee, I'm very disappointed.


But, even that can be a bad measure. In a game with everyone more or less competent, not one of 12 people broke 400 damage, but our team only had one player under 200, everyone else was between 200 and 400 damage, spread pretty evenly.

Generally, you don't get that. Normally it's a couple players carrying the rest.

Here's the thing.... I have found...that most people when HONEST about averaging their own damage...are seldom the Damage Gods they claim to be. Heck, I think I have one chassis that is holding above 500 avg dmg.

Funny thing is my Lights are all predictably low averages (hey, I suck at Lights) But my avg damage between my good Medium Chassis and Heavies and Assaults, really has minimal difference.

My top avg damage mechs, with at least 25 matches
(that 500 damage actually has less than 25 matches, so nope, doesn't count!)
Assaults:
-ZEU-6S (65 matches) 427 avg dmg
-BNC- 3E (27 matches) 418 avg dmg
-BNC-LM (37 matches) 391 avg dmg
Heavies:
-TDR-5S (30 matches) 435 avg dmg
-ON1-VA (76 matches) 431 avg dmg
-CTF-IM (64 matches) 390 avg dmg
-JM6-DD (68 matches) 390 avg dmg
Mediums:
-HBK-4J (77 matches) 444 avg dmg
-CN9-D (57 matches) 411 avg dmg
-HBK-4G (262 matches) 399 avg dmg
Lights:
-UM-R60 (44 matches) 262 avg dmg

So my highest avg comes from a Medium,but because it's a LRMboat. Yet it sits with a 2.34 KDr and 1.17 W/L while my 4G which scores significantly lower damage (45 pts on avg) sits with a 2.86 KDr and 1.54 W/L... because LRMs generate more damage, but are inefficient killers. Honestly, if I have to spend more than 150 damage to kill you in a 4G, I'm doing something wrong.

But I found it interesting how little difference I have in avg damage with mechs between 50 and 100 tons.

But while I am certainly no Pro (though I'll happily face off against any other 4G pilot)...most people's actual averages have not been massively higher (and it's funny how often I drop with the 1337s and how often their scores.....were not wow worthy). We all have those awesome high scoring matches, but tend to forget how many times we turned around a corner and got dual gaussed to the face, game over, etc. And too many people eppen keeps them from being honest on forums which is funny... people are worried about what a bunch of strangers think.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 June 2015 - 06:05 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Well, my WHK P is above that Assault avg at somewhere around 396 haha

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 12 June 2015 - 06:34 PM.

[Sader325]

ManDaisy, on 12 June 2015 - 04:14 PM, said:

well damage and kills go hand in hand. 1200 damage with 1 kill is horrible. 1200 damage with 4-5 kills is more like it. The most average kill to damage ratio is 4-kill 800 damage.

Not true.

900 damage 8 assists and 1 kill is perfectly fine.

[FupDup]

I consider 200 damage to be the "minimum viable product" for not being entirely useless. Higher is obviously preferred, and most of the time I beat that easily. Most of the time...

[Rampancy]

I've never understood the notion that lights are supposed to be poor damage dealers. They're a perfect storm of low-tonnage weapon boating and ability to get into optimal range. A decent light should be clearing 300 damage/match, even with the face-first-into-dual-AC20 matches.

Interesting statistics nonetheless. Thanks for compiling, Jman.