117 replies to this topic

[AlphaToaster]

I cringe at the thought of the game in it's current state hitting Steam. It's not finished. Not only will MWO be showcased alongside completed titles, but the reviews as stated above.

PGI must deliver on their open issues/requests, and clean up anything with the community first or they're going to get owned on the reviews.

It's just not ready yet. Rushing to Steam is a huge mistake before the game is ready. If PGI can't drop the Beta tag then that should be a sign it's not ready.

Give it 6 months of live development after they can stop hiding behind a Beta tag and then we can talk about Steam, but until then it's too soon. Steam users aren't going to forgive Beta. They're going to get a refund and never look back.

PGI knows about Steams new refund policy right? Basically if the game is ****, people get their money back, period.

One of my concerns are the trailers make it look like Super #1 Mecha Robot Combat Arena and that isn't what the game is at all. It's so much slower pace than those trailers lead on.

Edited by AlphaToaster, 15 June 2015 - 12:25 PM.

[Rebas Kradd]

R Razor, on 15 June 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

I mean that I see absolutely zero reason to complain about anyone posting a negative review, whether that review is factual in your opinion is irrelevant, it may be factual in the opinion of the person posting it.

I can appreciate that two opposing views might be true from two individuals' separate perspectives, yes. But there's still a lot of gray area out there, and there's a lot more negative vitriol out there than there is positive perspective. The situation is not good for incoming newbies.

A good example: Transverse. Putting aside the fact that it was a horrible creative ripoff of three or four other games, a lot of people were all shocked and shaken that PGI would dare launch any kind of second title (GASP) before the first one was completed! The hubris in moving on to other projects before they completed their initial commitments!!!...The reality is that game studios do this all the time. They rarely put their eggs in one basket. Transverse sucked as an idea, and I won't let PGI off the hook for that, but it was intended to help get the studio further ahead financially and benefit MWO in the process. Its critics don't seem to realize this reality, so we've got an opinion of the matter that's generated by ignorance.

[R Razor]

Rebas Kradd, on 15 June 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

I can appreciate that two opposing views might be true from two individuals' separate perspectives, yes. But there's still a lot of gray area out there, and there's a lot more negative vitriol out there than there is positive perspective. The situation is not good for incoming newbies.

A good example: Transverse. Putting aside the fact that it was a horrible creative ripoff of three or four other games, a lot of people were all shocked and shaken that PGI would dare launch any kind of second title (GASP) before the first one was completed! The hubris in moving on to other projects before they completed their initial commitments!!!...The reality is that game studios do this all the time. They rarely put their eggs in one basket. Transverse sucked as an idea, and I won't let PGI off the hook for that, but it was intended to help get the studio further ahead financially and benefit MWO in the process. Its critics don't seem to realize this reality, so we've got an opinion of the matter that's generated by ignorance.

I don't disagree that there is more bad than good in the MW:O review world right now, but who is at fault?

I posit that both PGI and those that think the game is GOOD are.........PGI for the early environment they engendered in the game (back to the whole "Never be in the game" , "That was our position at the time" and of course "You're on an island") and the players that think the game is good because THEY could be posting good reviews to help balance the reporting in a manner of speaking. I haven't posted a review in either the positive or the negative because frankly I'm taking a "wait and see" attitude for the time being. I will give PGI credit when it's due but I will also call them out when it's due as well.

Right now, this game is "meh" for me, love it because it has Battlemechs in it, hate it because it isn't what PGI advertised when I bought into it.

[Kristov Kerensky]

R Razor, on 15 June 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

If the people reading the reviews aren't intelligent enough to differentiate between libelous claims and factual criticism then that's on them as far as I'm concerned.

As to the assertion that R, S and T only matter to diehard BT fans and not the average Steam Gamer, that is not at all relevant......a company stated that R, S, and T would NOT be included and people bought into the game under that assumption........the company then back pedaled and included some (or all depending on your point of view) of R, S, and T and it upset the very same folks that bought into the game because those weren't to be included. That in and of itself is deserving of negative reviews, and having the face of the company compound that reversal by insulting the customers just reinforces that fact.

I agree that development is ongoing, that is the primary reason I still play the game, that doesn't excuse past behavior however, nor is it an indicator that the game will EVER be what was advertised when it was first presented to the public. As I said, I question whether PGI has the resources or willpower to get it to that point. In any case, people are more than entitled to post their reviews of the product they bought in to (or even played for free although to a lesser extent I'd think) if they are dissatisfied. It is incumbent upon the individual reading those reviews to determine the veracity of them and give them the weight they do or do not deserve.

I have zero sympathy for anyone that lacks the ability to comprehend the written word and determine hyperbole from actual relevant data.

As to Mr. Kerensky's passive aggressive nonsense.........learn to read and comprehend the written word please. I am neither pro PGI nor con PGI, I am neutral on the entire matter...........I just believe folks have a right to report on the bad in the form of a review just as folks that love the game and think it's great have a right to report on the good in the form of a review.

I'm failing to see what R T and S were that you were promised wouldn't be in the game, since your start date is actually after the inclusion of R T and S. And changes to a game's final form are a given, from Doom to WoW, things stated pre-development don't tend to stick once development starts, especially if customer feedback DEMANDS those things be changed.

And your blind assumption that people reading bad reviews will actually look INTO those reviews is...naive at best, I'm thinking flat out dishonest in your case however, based on your statements. People generally don't look into bad reviews, they see them and take them at face value, GOOD reviews are the ones people look into, because humans are, by nature, hardwired to be suspicious, it's a survival trait after all. One would think someone coming across as erudite as you do would be aware of this, which is why you come across as dishonest. You could always just be naive, but I find that hard to believe. No, you come across as one of the people who keep harping on decisions made by PGI as horrible despite them being the actual best possible decision for the game's commercial success. PGI has made decisions I, as a BTech purist and BTech MW Sim wanting player, find to be horrible for MY personal tastes, but as an adult who's worked in the industry and knows how businesses work, I agree with them 100%, because they are commercially sound decisions.

How many of those bad reviews, of which I am sure you would be writing at least one, will be based on an adult view of the game and how many will be based on butthurt children's views? All I need do is open ANY of the MWO reviews on any of the various MMO/Gamer sites to see exactly what the percentage is, or I can look at the SC forums and see them, since it's the same people doing the reviews in all cases.

[R Razor]

Kristov Kerensky, on 15 June 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

I'm failing to see what R T and S were that you were promised wouldn't be in the game, since your start date is actually after the inclusion of R T and S. And changes to a game's final form are a given, from Doom to WoW, things stated pre-development don't tend to stick once development starts, especially if customer feedback DEMANDS those things be changed.

And your blind assumption that people reading bad reviews will actually look INTO those reviews is...naive at best, I'm thinking flat out dishonest in your case however, based on your statements. People generally don't look into bad reviews, they see them and take them at face value, GOOD reviews are the ones people look into, because humans are, by nature, hardwired to be suspicious, it's a survival trait after all. One would think someone coming across as erudite as you do would be aware of this, which is why you come across as dishonest. You could always just be naive, but I find that hard to believe. No, you come across as one of the people who keep harping on decisions made by PGI as horrible despite them being the actual best possible decision for the game's commercial success. PGI has made decisions I, as a BTech purist and BTech MW Sim wanting player, find to be horrible for MY personal tastes, but as an adult who's worked in the industry and knows how businesses work, I agree with them 100%, because they are commercially sound decisions.

How many of those bad reviews, of which I am sure you would be writing at least one, will be based on an adult view of the game and how many will be based on butthurt children's views? All I need do is open ANY of the MWO reviews on any of the various MMO/Gamer sites to see exactly what the percentage is, or I can look at the SC forums and see them, since it's the same people doing the reviews in all cases.

I stand by my presumption that you have issues with reading comprehension.......as I have stated previously in this very thread that I have yet to write a review, good or bad, for this game.

The fact that you call me a liar (granted in a relatively polite manner) is just indicative of your inability to communicate effectively or have a discussion with someone you disagree with without resorting to childish name calling.

I don't care whether you (or any other person for that matter) read a negative review and just take it for gospel.......that's where that whole "be in possession of enough common sense and intelligence so as to be able to determine what is libelous nonsense vs what may be factual" thing comes in. Apparently you assume nobody is intelligent enough or in possession of enough common sense to do that. Well, some might call that projection, but I'll just call it sad. In my world, I assume people are at least semi intelligent until proven otherwise.

I have been around since 2013......don't know where you get the start date from, and frankly don't care........I was here for the "No 3pv" fiasco, the "on an island" fiasco and the general dumbing down of the game that has taken place over time (nerf this, quirk that etc). I am could go out and write a review should I so choose......but what point is there in reviewing an unfinished product?

By the same token, I could white knight and defend PGI to the death over the decisions they've made, but until the product is finished and we see the ultimate effect those decisions have on the final product, what is the point?

So in summary.........learn to read, try not to stoop to calling someone that doesn't agree with you names (such as dishonest or a liar), and write your own positive review if you're so concerned about the negative drivel floating around the internet about this game.

Edited by R Razor, 15 June 2015 - 12:56 PM.

[Navid A1]

My prediction of ingame chat and voip in the first 4 months:

[occusoj]

I wouldnt worry much about steam release. Apart from some server issues during the first few days because of the high load put on them everything should go fine.
MWO isnt done well at all but so are most games these days. Its just another drop in a sea of mediocrity. A lot of gamers are used to worse. PGI might be bad but please take a look at the stunts other companies, like EA, pull. And get away with.
I expect it to get mixed reviews but overall do quite well. Lots of new players and some income for PGI.

Rebas Kradd, on 15 June 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

A good example: Transverse.

Shocking because it was a clear display of how disconnected from reality they already are and by how much they overestimate their own abilities.
Expecting such a project to be profitable, financially as well as to their reputation, is - at best- totally naive.

No issues with developing a second title if the main project is progressing well and resources are abundant. Sadly thats not the case with MWO.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Your join date shows when you joined the forums, which is, for most people, accurate. You joined when we already knew 3pov would be included and why, due to customer demand. As far as I can remember, that's the only thing we'd been told wouldn't ever be in MWO that was added, and again, that was due to demand for the feature, not just because PGI wanted to piss people off. And after seeing how they implemented 3pov, I can't even say I'm bothered by them adding it, despite being vehemently against it's inclusion to begin with due to it's abuse in every other MW title to date. What other things were we told would never be in MWO that were added? Honest question, because that is the only one that I can remember.

And I find your statements to be what they are in my view, dishonest. Stating things you were promised would never be included, which isn't honest since you weren't part of the customer base who was promised no 3pov, you came after it was already known it was being added, what promise was broken to you?

I don't tend to write reviews of games that aren't finished, and since I've yet to encounter an online only game that's 'finished', that tends to preclude me writing reviews for them, including MWO, which will likely never been 'finished', the same as WoW or LoL or WoT.

MWO has so far provided the best online MW experience to date out of all the MW titles that offered online play, from MW2 though MW4. It has things that are still needed to make it more complete, but since those are all things in the works at this time, I can't make a judgement on them. I enjoy the game, more than I enjoyed anything else since MW2 and Tribes, and that's saying something since I've played competitively in a number of other games over the past 2 decades, making money levels of competitive.

Please though, do remind me what else we were promised wouldn't be in MWO that has been added, I really don't remember anything else, memory and pain meds tend to be counter productive, so remind me, please.

[R Razor]

Again, you claim knowledge of a start time however you have no real knowledge........I was here before my forum reg date but was in Afghanistan and couldn't download or play the game until that date.

As for things promised and not delivered, or implemented after being told they weren't going to be there..........there's 3pv but that's been covered...........there's the whole "A Battletech game" in the title (hint, just because you use some Battletech material to make an FPS with giant stompy robots doesn't mean you're a Battletech game) and then of course there's the "Thinking Mans Shooter"........if by "Thinking Man" they mean find the meta (or more likely copy what most others are doing) in the Mechlab, run to the same spot on each map, hope your team works together better than the enemy (focus firing for instance) and doesn't have as many "steering wheel underhive" players as your opponent does (if you're in a PUG match) and click anywhere from 1 to 6 mouse buttons. then I suppose they hit that benchmark.

As you (and I earlier in fact said this as well) said, it is the best Battletech game on the market and that is why I (and I'm sure a lot of others) play it.........but as I also said, being the best out of a field of 1 isn't necessarily something to write home about. I enjoy the game for the most part as well, but I'm not about giving a free pass just because PGI gave us a minimally viable product. I want the immersive CW that was promised, not the "map reset every xxx days" and fighting over planets that mean NOTHING beyond maybe putting a unit tag (read that as an e-peen measurement if you like, that's how I read it) on it.

Mechwarrior is an RPG franchise..........Battletech is a Combat Simulator...........MW:O is Call of Duty with giant (can't call them Robots because they aren't automatons) skins. The very name implies an RPG mixed with a combat simulator, we have neither role playing nor a true simulator............

There is a LOT of room for improvement in this game and I sincerely hope PGI manages to make this improvement, but resources and willpower are key and while there is hope, it's faint at this point in time.

And again, I haven't reviewed this game (posted one that is, I have talked it over with friends and gotten a few of them to play even) and I have no intention of doing so.........my standards are pretty high with regards to personal responsibilities and as some in here have so aptly demonstrated, that's not readily available in the internet gaming arena...........I refuse to try and silence someone just because someone else is afraid that they aren't intelligent enough to sort the wheat from the chaff as it were.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Your join date is June 2013, something you yourself confirmed, you've been around since 2013. We were first told of this game in 2011, which is the join date some of us have on the forums, others were around that long ago but they have new accounts for whatever reason, which is why I said, the forum join date is accurate for some, which yours seems to be, although it's hard to tell since you are now countering your own statement...so I'll go with the forum join date and your earlier statement of 2013, both of which are after 3rd PoV was confirmed as being added. So again, no promise broken to you.

To me, and all the other Founders, yes, it was broken to us, but the only ones holding a grudge about that are the ones who simply refuse to be an adult about things, reality is what it is, and video game development, for ANYONE that's been around video games for more than a few months, never goes as planned. The development cycle of MWO to date is STANDARD for video games, and it's not even approaching the long end of video game development cycles yet, and for an online F2P game, it's right on track so far. People just want the game NOW, they don't want to wait, and waiting isn't something they are used to doing, mainly because they don't wait, they just go find something else.

Oh, and MWO isn't the only stompy giant robot game(yes, it fits that, people don't care that we're INSIDE the Mechs, still a robot), Hawken is also out there, but you don't hear much about it anymore. Hawken failed, got reborn, put on Steam and...yeah, that resurrection, it didn't stick, guess someone failed a Con check. It was supposedly the MWO killer when it first came out, I tried it, found it very very lacking, if you think MWO is just CoD with robot avatars, you should have tried Hawken, it WAS CoD with robot avatars, no doubts about it. And it's failed not once but twice now, despite the claims, again, that it would be the MWO killer when it was reborn on Steam.

It actually takes more than just giant stompy robots in a CoD setting to make a successful Mech game, ask Activision about that with Heavy Gear, years before CoD was around, didn't work then, doesn't work now. MWO has more going on than CoD, anyone who's played both is fully aware of this, those who haven't like to compare the two. Any idiot, quite literally, can play CoD and do ok, while MWO, not so much, just peruse the rage quit posts from new players who came from CoD games, funny stuff. I can tell CoD players real quick, lack of situational awareness, no idea what the minimap is, and targeting is for wimps!

I'm waiting for PGI to deliver on all the rest of the promises myself, but I'm also aware that they can't, so I'm not really expecting TOO much more. CW that has logistics would ******* away at this point, so I'm waiting.

Honest reviews are one thing, the vitrol we'll see for MWO, that's something totally different. Trying to pass it off as ANYTHING but straight up bs and sabotage is either naive or dishonest. Pick one.

[R Razor]

Kristov Kerensky, on 15 June 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

Your join date is June 2013, something you yourself confirmed, you've been around since 2013. We were first told of this game in 2011, which is the join date some of us have on the forums, others were around that long ago but they have new accounts for whatever reason, which is why I said, the forum join date is accurate for some, which yours seems to be, although it's hard to tell since you are now countering your own statement...so I'll go with the forum join date and your earlier statement of 2013, both of which are after 3rd PoV was confirmed as being added. So again, no promise broken to you.

To me, and all the other Founders, yes, it was broken to us, but the only ones holding a grudge about that are the ones who simply refuse to be an adult about things, reality is what it is, and video game development, for ANYONE that's been around video games for more than a few months, never goes as planned. The development cycle of MWO to date is STANDARD for video games, and it's not even approaching the long end of video game development cycles yet, and for an online F2P game, it's right on track so far. People just want the game NOW, they don't want to wait, and waiting isn't something they are used to doing, mainly because they don't wait, they just go find something else.

Oh, and MWO isn't the only stompy giant robot game(yes, it fits that, people don't care that we're INSIDE the Mechs, still a robot), Hawken is also out there, but you don't hear much about it anymore. Hawken failed, got reborn, put on Steam and...yeah, that resurrection, it didn't stick, guess someone failed a Con check. It was supposedly the MWO killer when it first came out, I tried it, found it very very lacking, if you think MWO is just CoD with robot avatars, you should have tried Hawken, it WAS CoD with robot avatars, no doubts about it. And it's failed not once but twice now, despite the claims, again, that it would be the MWO killer when it was reborn on Steam.

It actually takes more than just giant stompy robots in a CoD setting to make a successful Mech game, ask Activision about that with Heavy Gear, years before CoD was around, didn't work then, doesn't work now. MWO has more going on than CoD, anyone who's played both is fully aware of this, those who haven't like to compare the two. Any idiot, quite literally, can play CoD and do ok, while MWO, not so much, just peruse the rage quit posts from new players who came from CoD games, funny stuff. I can tell CoD players real quick, lack of situational awareness, no idea what the minimap is, and targeting is for wimps!

I'm waiting for PGI to deliver on all the rest of the promises myself, but I'm also aware that they can't, so I'm not really expecting TOO much more. CW that has logistics would ******* away at this point, so I'm waiting.

Honest reviews are one thing, the vitrol we'll see for MWO, that's something totally different. Trying to pass it off as ANYTHING but straight up bs and sabotage is either naive or dishonest. Pick one.

Again, and this is probably the last time I'll respond as circular arguing is tiresome..............whether it is, in YOUR opinion, vitriol or hatred or dishonesty, or not, to the person posting it, it may just be the way he or she feels...........what right do you (or any of us in here) have to berate him or her and tell them they aren't allowed to post what they think in a review?

Use that intelligence and common sense we spoke of earlier and determine whether it's believable or not and move on and make your own decision about the game.........post your own review if you want, but stop trying to tell folks they can't post or shouldn't post and are liars and all these other names you guys come up with just because you don't agree with them.

Sure some are probably trolls trying to kill the game, but that's not really something any of us are in a position to prove.

And either my join date is wrong or your 3pv timeline is wrong because I was indeed here before it was implemented and I was here for the backlash when it was implemented. I am unsure as to the exact times that took place however.

Edited by R Razor, 15 June 2015 - 03:11 PM.

[Kiiyor]

EvilCow, on 15 June 2015 - 05:02 AM, said:

It will be farming time.

MOUNTAINS of green robot corpses.

I shall make myself a throne out of them.

[Pjwned]

It depends on when PGI plans on doing a Steam release really. If they stick to their "late summer" plan then it's likely going to be a disaster because they won't have done enough to fix up the game suitably.

[Mcgral18]

Kiiyor, on 15 June 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

MOUNTAINS of green robot corpses.

I shall make myself a throne out of them.

I think I'll feel a bit bad about killing disabling robots that are 10% slower, 20% hotter and half as agile as mine.


So much can go wrong if they don't fix that NPE...perhaps the MM a little bit as well. With a player influx, it might be feasible to separate the levels a little better; a new player queue of sorts.

[Kiiyor]

Mcgral18, on 15 June 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

I think I'll feel a bit bad about killing disabling robots that are 10% slower, 20% hotter and half as agile as mine.


So much can go wrong if they don't fix that NPE...perhaps the MM a little bit as well. With a player influx, it might be feasible to separate the levels a little better; a new player queue of sorts.

Which is a great idea.

Remember the move from closed to open beta?

I felt like a vengeful god striding the battlefield like Sauron with that big freaking mace.

While it's probably not good from a new player experience, there's something gleeful in watching someone walk into the open who clearly hasn't worked out how the top bits work in relation to the bottom bits yet.

Queue evil chuckle.

[Alistair Winter]

Kiiyor, on 15 June 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

MOUNTAINS of green robot corpses.

I shall make myself a throne out of them.

[Kiiyor]

Alistair Winter, on 15 June 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

Holy crap, did you make that? Awesome.

[Alistair Winter]

Kiiyor, on 15 June 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

Holy crap, did you make that? Awesome.

I wouldn't go quite that far, it was just a quick and sloppy photoshop. But thanks

[Kristov Kerensky]

Kiiyor, on 15 June 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

Which is a great idea.

Remember the move from closed to open beta?

I felt like a vengeful god striding the battlefield like Sauron with that big freaking mace.

While it's probably not good from a new player experience, there's something gleeful in watching someone walk into the open who clearly hasn't worked out how the top bits work in relation to the bottom bits yet.

Queue evil chuckle.

That was always one of the perks of being a top unit and running your own server in games like Tribes and BF, you got to occasionally beat up on newbs, but only the ones who WANTED to get better and learn how to play the game. And that's actually more fun, because they may be newbs, but godsdamn if they ain't got huge balls of brass and heart to match. And they got to see how the pros did it, because the top teams always visited each other for friendly ball busting. It was fun and it was expected that newbs have to earn their chops and will spend time getting bent over until they get good. WE'D all been through it, made us better players, it's how all of us got our training and we trained everyone that wanted to learn, it just hurt a bit in the ego

[Dingo Battler]

Pretty excited for steam release. Hopefully that'll inject more funds into the game for PVE and solaris.

I hope they'll get up a decent tutorial, due to the extreme learning curve of the game. Probably have to throw in a free medium or heavy mech too, to make things easier

UI 3.0 will probably be released. Hopefully 1-click mech selection and auto module swapping.

Other than that, I expect all sorts of weird stuff on the first few weeks/months. LRM boats, lone assault wandering around, mechs running up to the deathball to try to get a kill, mega-stomps, suicides, etc.

New players are good though. If anything, we need badly.

Also, with regards to the complaints, MWO is a very well designed game on the mech side of things, complex, relatively balanced and realistic enough. I like their events too. The side where it doesn't do well is the soft side, like game modes, CW, etc. Gets pretty boring and repetitive after awhile.