78 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

DarthRevis, on 15 June 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

But according to this logic so was....

Ice Ferret
Mist Lynx
Nova
Kit Fox
Grasshopper
Enforcer

Those are bad examples, because none of those mechs are as well optimized as the EBJ. Some of those mechs are actually pretty bleh. The EBJ on the other hand will very likely be a competitor to the Mad Cat, which is regarded by many people as the overall best robbit in MWO.

[Alistair Winter]

DarthRevis, on 15 June 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

But according to this logic so was....
Ice Ferret
Mist Lynx
Nova
Kit Fox
Grasshopper
Enforcer

No, that's a strawman argument and non sequitur. I'm saying the Ebon Jaguar is most likely P2W. I'm not saying all mechs ever released via mech packs were P2W, or that mech packs are P2W by definition.

At best, you can say that the presence of the Ice Ferret and Mist Lynx in Wave 2 made the Hellbringer poor value for money. But even that is a poor argument, since you could just buy the Hellbringer a la carte.

[Hit the Deck]

FupDup, on 15 June 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

The funny thing is that the EBJ might actually have more hardpoint/build variety than even the Mad Cat itself, because just look at all dem combinations you can make...


....

One thing it can't do is small (pulse) lasers + SRMs.

[Shredhead]

FupDup, on 15 June 2015 - 07:52 PM, said:

Those are bad examples, because none of those mechs are as well optimized as the EBJ. Some of those mechs are actually pretty bleh. The EBJ on the other hand will very likely be a competitor to the Mad Cat, which is regarded by many people as the overall best robbit in MWO.

Does it have jump jets? No. It doesn't even have freaking arm actuators! It's broader than a Nova, with even bigger, easier to hit arms than the Nova. It will be a one trick pony, a mid to long range poking mech, and that's it. The extra hardpoints in the side torsos give it absurdly big shoulder boxes that will be easy to hit. So you either pack a few heavy weapons and go low and sleek, or you put stuff in the arms or extra in the side torsos to get shot off faster than you can spit.
You guys are blowing this mech way out of proportion. Better than Mad Cat, lol.

[Summon3r]

FupDup, on 15 June 2015 - 05:11 PM, said:

In other news, the patch notes indicate that the Cauldron Born WILL in fact have a medium climbing archetype as predicted. It just keeps getting stronger and stronger...

Oh, and it also has zero quirks, which also means no negatives. The conspiracy to sell EBJ's thickens...

lol this will be another months down the road neg quirk mech guarenteed ... after teh cash sales ofc

[Madcap72]

Alistair Winter, on 15 June 2015 - 08:03 PM, said:

No, that's a strawman argument and non sequitur. I'm saying the Ebon Jaguar is most likely P2W. I'm not saying all mechs ever released via mech packs were P2W, or that mech packs are P2W by definition.

At best, you can say that the presence of the Ice Ferret and Mist Lynx in Wave 2 made the Hellbringer poor value for money. But even that is a poor argument, since you could just buy the Hellbringer a la carte.

If you can grind and buy it for c-bills, it's not P2W.

If it costs real people money but gives no unfair advantage, it's not P2W

You seem to invalidate your own argument.

[Vellron2005]

I think all you guys are blowing up the wrong horn... the Ebon Jaguar won't be NEARLY as OP as the Black knight.. wich will do EXACTLY the same thing that made IS welps cry about the Timberwolf beeing OP.. and be subsequently nerfed.

So we will see exactly what the politics of PGI is when an all-laser vomit build Black Knight hits the game with no negative quirks and 8+ lasers mounted..

[Hit the Deck]

Vellron2005, on 16 June 2015 - 12:03 AM, said:

I think all you guys are blowing up the wrong horn... the Ebon Jaguar won't be NEARLY as OP as the Black knight.. wich will do EXACTLY the same thing that made IS welps cry about the Timberwolf beeing OP.. and be subsequently nerfed.

So we will see exactly what the politics of PGI is when an all-laser vomit build Black Knight hits the game with no negative quirks and 8+ lasers mounted..

Well, The hardpoints location favors the Ebon Born and it can do other things beside vomitting laser....

[Vellron2005]

Hit the Deck, on 16 June 2015 - 12:19 AM, said:

Well, The hardpoints location favors the Ebon Born and it can do other things beside vomitting laser....

Favors it? Think not.. High mounted missle pods get hit easily, (just like the timberwolf), big and wide nose also gets hit easily (also like the Timberwolf), and the wideness of the torso sections make it easily LRM-able..

Also, its arms cannot be used as shields since they are relatively thin..

So, like the Timberwolf, it will be easy to shoot into the CT and even the cockpit, and the only thing it can do is be an effective gauss sniper and LRM boat, like the Timberwolf..

So yeah, Timbie's got competiton, but its simply better becouse of bigger missle pods, more of them (two per side torso), and the ever popular Jump Jets..

The Ebon Jaguar is a Timberwolf wannabe with gauss.

[Hit the Deck]

Vellron2005, on 16 June 2015 - 12:33 AM, said:

Favors it? Think not.. High mounted missle pods get hit easily, (just like the timberwolf), big and wide nose also gets hit easily (also like the Timberwolf), and the wideness of the torso sections make it easily LRM-able..

Also, its arms cannot be used as shields since they are relatively thin..

So, like the Timberwolf, it will be easy to shoot into the CT and even the cockpit, and the only thing it can do is be an effective gauss sniper and LRM boat, like the Timberwolf..

So yeah, Timbie's got competiton, but its simply better becouse of bigger missle pods, more of them (two per side torso), and the ever popular Jump Jets..

The Ebon Jaguar is a Timberwolf wannabe with gauss.

The Cauldron Jaguar' design is most suitable for long range combat so the lack of lower arm actuators is not a big problem (for some people it's a boon, especially after double basic). And that it wouldn't be so good at torso twisting to shield the STs, it's just the drawback of "hunkered down fuselage" design. In return you get better hardpoint locations and weapon convergence.

BTW, the missile pods are gone if you don't use any missiles (like in any Laser Vomit builds).

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 15 June 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

Whether you refer the new 65 tonner as Cauldron-Born or Ebon Jaguar, it doesn't matter. In my eyes, I will always see its designation as Epic Bl*wj*b.

Soooooooo you're saying you really like it?

[Clownwarlord]

there is already a bj so i guess an epic bj it is

[Juodas Varnas]

FupDup, on 15 June 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

Yes, it pretty much was. The Centurion's CT hitbox increase at about the same time helped that happen...

The worst part about it, is that Centurion's CT was nowhere near as "broken" as the current hitboxes on the Stormcrow are, which is already the best medium mech in the game, probably even if you ignored its hitboxes...

Bloody PGI...

[Impyrium]

Would you rather something initially release as over-powered or under-powered? It's pretty obvious which option is the funnest, and the fact is that it's highly unlikely something can be released initially as fully balanced...

PGI will always lose though. They release something as unpowered, and people complain they got ripped off and have the balls to ask for a refund. They release something that's over effective, and people complain it's OP. They release something as a 'blank slate' ie. without quirks or anything, because logically nobody really knows how it'll perform yet, and people complain it's conspiracy marketing when it gets nerfs or buffs later on. They release it as pre-nerfed and apparently the entire chassis is now useless. Sigh.

[Madcap72]

Dingo Red, on 16 June 2015 - 01:56 AM, said:

Would you rather something initially release as over-powered or under-powered? It's pretty obvious which option is the funnest, and the fact is that it's highly unlikely something can be released initially as fully balanced...

PGI will always lose though. They release something as unpowered, and people complain they got ripped off and have the balls to ask for a refund. They release something that's over effective, and people complain it's OP. They release something as a 'blank slate' ie. without quirks or anything, because logically nobody really knows how it'll perform yet, and people complain it's conspiracy marketing when it gets nerfs or buffs later on. They release it as pre-nerfed and apparently the entire chassis is now useless. Sigh.

This, and all this.


It's amazing that MW3/4 ever worked online without quirks and constant tweaking of mechs.

[bad arcade kitty]

Shredhead, on 15 June 2015 - 10:10 PM, said:

Does it have jump jets? No. It doesn't even have freaking arm actuators! It's broader than a Nova, with even bigger, easier to hit arms than the Nova. It will be a one trick pony, a mid to long range poking mech, and that's it. The extra hardpoints in the side torsos give it absurdly big shoulder boxes that will be easy to hit. So you either pack a few heavy weapons and go low and sleek, or you put stuff in the arms or extra in the side torsos to get shot off faster than you can spit.
You guys are blowing this mech way out of proportion. Better than Mad Cat, lol.

have you tried to compare nova and timber by size? ebj has a size of a medium mech, it's way smaller than timber, it has better hardpoints and more podspace than timber, they have a similar agility, it doesn't have bad quirks yet (till it's for c-bills), it's easily will be better than timber

it even has its best cockpit ever

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 16 June 2015 - 02:09 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Dingo Red, on 16 June 2015 - 01:56 AM, said:

Would you rather something initially release as over-powered or under-powered? It's pretty obvious which option is the funnest, and the fact is that it's highly unlikely something can be released initially as fully balanced...

PGI will always lose though. They release something as unpowered, and people complain they got ripped off and have the balls to ask for a refund. They release something that's over effective, and people complain it's OP. They release something as a 'blank slate' ie. without quirks or anything, because logically nobody really knows how it'll perform yet, and people complain it's conspiracy marketing when it gets nerfs or buffs later on. They release it as pre-nerfed and apparently the entire chassis is now useless. Sigh.

Well, I guess one thing they can't do is announcing mechs with red numbers slapped onto them because it's just not pleasing to the eye. They can do it later after they are released. Anyway, I still think that Mr. Exe's right arm deserves getting some (minor) negative attributes right away because it's just a blatant default choice to pick and it's only available to pre-purchasers to boot (I have it BTW)!

Edited by Hit the Deck, 16 June 2015 - 02:05 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

bad arcade kitty, on 16 June 2015 - 02:03 AM, said:

have you tried to compare nova and timber by size? ebj has a size of a medium mech, it's way smaller than timber, it has better hardpoints and more podspace than timber, they have a similar agility, it doesn't have bad quirks yet (till it's for c-bills), it's easily will be better than timber

it even has its best cockpit ever

Actually Cauldron Born has BETTER agility than the Mad Cat.
Mad Cat has the Large archetype, Cauldron Born uses the medium (and it has a BIG difference during game-play)

Currently Cauldron Born is better than the Mad Cat in basically EVERY single way.
Keep in mind how many people complain about Mad Cats being op... And now we get something that's even stronger than that...

I'm depressed now. I'll go eat a tub of ice-cream.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 16 June 2015 - 02:14 AM.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 June 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

Soooooooo you're saying you really like it?

How can I not? Awesome name for a likely great mech. The Dakka Lord and Lurmancer in me are quivering with excitement over those hardpoints and podspace.

[TWIAFU]

FupDup, on 15 June 2015 - 05:11 PM, said:

In other news, the patch notes indicate that the Cauldron Born WILL in fact have a medium climbing archetype as predicted. It just keeps getting stronger and stronger...

Oh, and it also has zero quirks, which also means no negatives. The conspiracy to sell EBJ's thickens...

Personally, with a new mech release, I would rather they do NOT have quirks at release. Let it play on Live for a bit, gather some metrics, and then quirk it.

Better, IMO, to do it that way then have it quirked at launch then change them to reflect live play.