27 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

IraqiWalker, on 16 June 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

Except our DHS are actually significantly stronger. (They don't drop in efficiency below 2.0 until you have over 20 of them in the mech). DHS+increased scaling heat cap+mech skills+elites+engine DHS are 2.0 bas = 2.3+ DHS. Most our mechs cool at a terrifying rate compared to BT mechs.

With full skills the engine DHS are = to 11.5 DHS, the externals are equal to 1.6 DHS so at 15 DHS you get 15.3 DHS worth of cooling. Then you are just getting 1.6 DHS from the 16th up. That favors weapons other than Energy loadouts that usually need more than 15-16 DHS. So it's a heavier nerf than you calculate.

[IraqiWalker]

Kristian Radoulov, on 16 June 2015 - 07:14 PM, said:

What does the IS need to reach a level of parity with Clan tech then?

We're already getting here. Weapon quirks need to be tweaked (many even reduced). More quirks need to be added to help the chassis that are crap work better (the dragon didn't need an AC 60, it needed tankier CT, and faster torso twist, for example). The weapons themselves are quite balanced.

Look at the top performers for clan mechs, and why they stand out. They can bring a lot of firepower yes, but that's not why they are a problem. It's that they are moving at 90 Kph, and twist, and run like a medium mech.

The TBR didn't need laser nerfs, it needed mobility nerfs, and not crippling ones either, just some minor reductions, no more than 10% to torso twist ranges, and things like that.


Most of the IS chassis that underperform suffer from being very under-gunned for their tonnage, compared to other IS mechs, let alone the clan top performers (notice I'm saying top performers here, not all clan mechs). So making them compensate for that by being able to hit a bit harder, or tank better is a good way to balance it. Increased engine caps on some won't go amiss. Things like that. Not make IS Clan 0.5

[IraqiWalker]

Lightfoot, on 16 June 2015 - 08:22 PM, said:

With full skills the engine DHS are = to 11.5 DHS, the externals are equal to 1.6 DHS so at 15 DHS you get 15.3 DHS worth of cooling. Then you are just getting 1.6 DHS from the 16th up. That favors weapons other than Energy loadouts that usually need more than 15-16 DHS. So it's a heavier nerf than you calculate.

That's if you're not adjusting for the increased heat cap at all. If we were capped at 30, sure. But they increase their effective cooling significantly when our mechs can have up to 80+ as a heat cap.

[Sjorpha]

Kristian Radoulov, on 16 June 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

Nice! What loadout did you run?

Minmaxed laser vomit, 2LPL, 4ML, 25DHS, TCmk1. So yeah maximum cheese, pretty much, because i wanted to see the competitive potential of the chassis.

I used the B stock pods because I wanted all the variants equipped for the moment and see what the stock pods allowed, and I avoided using the ear mounted weapons because I didn't want that extra hitbox just for the one sligthly higher LPL.

The asymmetric build is probably better once you start swapping pods.

For comparison, the corresponding Timber wolf (smurfy removes one actuator for some reason, just put it back) has one more heatsink (or one less with JJs), two actuated arm lasers and some more armour, but significant negative quirks and worse tonnage for CW. This should leave Ebon Jaguar the absolute strongest laser vomit mech in the game, in a meta where laser vomit is tied with gaussvomit for general strength. It is going to be a problem, no doubt.

In any case this mech has the potential to be an absolute metamonster, especially in CW given the neat tonnage, which shouldn't be news to anyone at this point.

One thing to point out is that using the ears are pretty hazardous, more so than on the timberwolf I think. I sniped away two side torsos that match on enemy EBJs who didn't go down enough to hide them.

It might very well be the best gauss vomit in the game too.

Edited by Sjorpha, 17 June 2015 - 02:16 AM.

[Kristian Radoulov]

Sjorpha, on 17 June 2015 - 01:33 AM, said:

Minmaxed laser vomit, 2LPL, 4ML, 25DHS, TCmk1. So yeah maximum cheese, pretty much, because i wanted to see the competitive potential of the chassis.

lol I like the way you put that.

[Phra]

CT draws damage a lot more than those STs even with the ears to be a problem.

The TBR rolls dmg a lot better as well, could regularly put up 800+ as compared to the 600+ with the EBJ.

Edited by Phra, 17 June 2015 - 09:22 AM.

[Coralld]

From my experience with the EBJ, it can put out a good amount of damage to rival that of a Timber, however, it appears to be unable to roll and take damage anywhere near as good as the Timber. Even though the EBJ has only been out for a day, I must say that currently I'd much rather go against a EBJ than a Timber because they are easier to kill.

PS: Timber should have the energy nerfs removed, or at least made less severe, and simply nerf its mobility to make it feel more like a Heavy. Currently feels and handles like a light Medium. Same with the Crow, that thing needs a good shellacking from the nerf bat to its mobility. Its base torso twist range and speed with out skills is almost the same as a completely elited Blackjack. And when you throw in the skills and the arm actuator, well, damn, its just stupid crazy, being able to shoot directly behind its self while it runs away.

PSS: And as far as the IS LFE... No... It completely obsoletes the STD Engine, and probably even a number of XL Engine builds on mechs. Simply adjust the offending Clan mechs mobility and agility down to reasonable levels would go a long way in bringing about better balance, that, and give proper penalties to losing a ST on Clan mechs, such as a -10% to 15% to speed, accel, decel, torso turn speed, general turning, and double the heat produced when running.

Edited by Coralld, 17 June 2015 - 11:45 AM.