77 replies to this topic

[Ultimax]

I’ll hold off on commenting on the EXE’s agility until I’ve mastered it.

I also agree the arm mounts are frustratingly low, and the CT probably needs a pass.

However, it does have at least up to 3 well placed energy mounts in the Side torsos or up to 2x Smaller Ballistic (UAC 5s) + 1 E.

These are all mounted around chin level, and are great for poking and peeking before you can fully engage and use whatever is equipped on your arms.

[CyclonerM]

Mmh..

When you say "viable", you actually mean "competitive", quiaff?

By the way, even if it is supposed to have a decent mobility for an assault, i would not expect it to fly like a Mist Lynx , it still is a 95-tons 'Mech.. And you know that PGI has this standardized JJ and mobility stats. I wish each 'Mech had its own individual stats, and a 'Mech like the Gargoyle or Executioner had better mobility stats than a comparable Assault of the same weight but with different strenghts and weaknessess..

Widowmaker1981, on 17 June 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

Hardpoint locations are VASTLY more important than vulnerability caused by Gauss in STs, especially with the C-XL and the in built CASE. VASTLY. From what ive been able to see, nothing in this game will or could ever match the Asp.


We WILL. NOT. GET. fully customisable clan battlemechs, obviously. The locked mechlab is not to balance out the omnipod system, its to balance out the TECH.

Actually, Clan BattleMechs mights not be that bad.. If you limit the range of equippable engines, there shoudl not be such a big issue with them, as a LOT of them already have ES, FF or, often, both. Not much weight you could gain with extensive customization. For sure, IS Battlemechs are, in comparison, MUCH more imbalanced by high customization.

Edited by CyclonerM, 17 June 2015 - 06:50 AM.

[operatorZ]

Aresye Kerensky, on 17 June 2015 - 12:25 AM, said:

Poking around a corner on completely flat terrain................and that's it. Lord help you if you have a gentle rolling hill between you and the enemy, because your arm weapons CAN and WILL hit it, leaving you will no other options in the other 99% of situations but to crest your entire body on the center of a hill.

Thankfully I never got the Bog tonight. I shudder to even think of it.

Seeing as how the Bog provides some of the best corner peaking in the game with FLAT terrain I don't understand your comment.

[Widowmaker1981]

CyclonerM, on 17 June 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

Actually, Clan BattleMechs mights not be that bad.. If you limit the range of equippable engines, there shoudl not be such a big issue with them, as a LOT of them already have ES, FF or, often, both. Not much weight you could gain with extensive customization. For sure, IS Battlemechs are, in comparison, MUCH more imbalanced by high customization.

You underestimate the advantage of being able to use engine sizes not possible in TT, because the optimal speed is usually about halfway between those, especially for heavier mechs with attendant large jumps in engine weight (eg an 80 ton mech can either have a 320 or a 400, but what you really want is a 350-375)

[CyclonerM]

Widowmaker1981, on 17 June 2015 - 06:54 AM, said:

You underestimate the advantage of being able to use engine sizes not possible in TT, because the optimal speed is usually about halfway between those, especially for heavier mechs with attendant large jumps in engine weight (eg an 80 ton mech can either have a 320 or a 400, but what you really want is a 350-375)

I would like to have a Smurfy page to theorycraft possible builds, maybe i do not have the right perspective without actual tonnage numbers.. But there is no other way to implement Clan BattleMechs that makes sense, you know? First, they are Battlemechs, so they should work like IS Battlemechs, they cannot just come up with some new strange system; second, i can understand OmniMechs vs Battlemechs, different capabilities there.. But Clan tech is at least supposed to be more advanced, i would never accept Clan BattleMechs that work like the IS ones but with locked stuff, meaning, just inferior and/or less customizable to their IS counterparts.

I am sorry, but they caused all this themselves by making IS Battlemechs little more than boxes to fill in with everything and anything with no trouble and little cost...

EDIT: I just removed some of the armor from the Executioner and i now have the sweet amount of 27 free tons of pod space..

Edited by CyclonerM, 17 June 2015 - 07:04 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Widowmaker1981, on 17 June 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

Hardpoint locations are VASTLY more important than vulnerability caused by Gauss in STs, especially with the C-XL and the in built CASE. VASTLY. From what ive been able to see, nothing in this game will or could ever match the Asp.

Tell that to the Dire, I see a split among top players with regards to their favored setup, split between those who run asymmetrical (Gauss in torso) and those who don't (Gauss in arms). Gauss in the torso is a liability more often than not, granted neither the TWolf or Dire benefit from high mounts quite like the Asp.

Widowmaker1981, on 17 June 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

We WILL. NOT. GET. fully customisable clan battlemechs, obviously. The locked mechlab is not to balance out the omnipod system, its to balance out the TECH.

Keep telling yourself that, the more this game goes on, the more unlocked you will see Clan tech get overall because of how poorly optimized a lot of them are stock (much like a few IS mechs). Basically it requires even more balancing aspects to the quirks and compounds all balance issues both with tech parity and inner-tech parity.



Edit: I do want to mention something, high mounts are a little overrated. High mounts are only good if your cockpit is high enough up that you are actually reducing the amount you have to expose. The best mounts are cockpit level, and the best cockpit is mounted high. The Ares (and SCat) from the Mektek mods of MW4 was a perfect example of this, not only because it had JJs which made the bird profile that much harder to hit, but because once your cockpit was exposed, you knew you could hit, and you had a thin profile so exposing your cockpit wasn't a big deal. Mechs like the Jager and BJ do suffer a bit from having to expose half of their blocky torso to get their cockpit over cover (also the "racing" fin) and actually shoot mechs which means they expose more than they probably wish they could.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 17 June 2015 - 07:40 AM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Called it. People playing the Sexecutioner like a Wubshee or Garbro are going to hate it. I had my Prime fully basic'ed in seven matches.

I'm loving the Sexecutioner. MASC be OP as **** yo. I can dance all day, I can dance all day ************!

If only the JJs worked enough to justify the 8 tons wasted.

[Gas Guzzler]

I like it, save for two glaring issues

1) CT seems to catch a lot of heat compared to other assaults, could use a hitbox pass
2) 70 DEGREE TORSO TWIST RANGE?
That is what gave me the real WTF moment. This is a mobile assault with heavy-level firepower, and they give it garbage torso twist range. Whose brilliant idea was that? I mean come on... its not a weapons platform, it is meant to be agile for a 95 tonner.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 17 June 2015 - 07:57 AM.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

The only glaring issue is the lack of lower arm actuator support and the poor torso twist range.

[Gas Guzzler]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 17 June 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

The only glaring issue is the lack of lower arm actuator support and the poor torso twist range.

Yeah I think the torso twist range is the biggest, and I think it exacerbates the CT issue a bit as well, making it a little more cumbersome to spread damage.

[masCh]

If it is better than a Victor, then it is OP.

[Khobai]

Quote

MASC is what the mech should feel like at its baseline, but instead you've got mobility that feels like it's a "slight" improvement over the Dire Wolf

um its a 95 ton mech of course its going to feel like a dire wolf.

expecting it to be as agile as a medium mech without masc being on is an absurd expectation

[Gas Guzzler]

I dunno, unless there are bugs with the CT, I think if they gave it the standard 90 deg twist range the Banshee has the CT issues might be mitigated quite a bit.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 17 June 2015 - 10:02 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 June 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

I dunno, unless there are bugs with the CT, I think if they gave it the standard 90 deg twist range the Banshee has the CT issues might be mitigated quite a bit.

They may be mitigated, but judging from the video I saw, the frontal torso distribution is a little wonky and should still be fixed. That would be icing on the cake though as far as a twist radius buff goes.

[Roadkill]

Aresye Kerensky, on 17 June 2015 - 12:25 AM, said:

Yes, once it is fully Elited it will feel a little different, but I've leveled up over a hundred mechs. I KNOW it isn't THAT big of a difference

Actually, on this Mech it's a pretty huge difference. Roughly 81 kph seems to be some sort of magic number in MWO, so the ability to use MASC and go ~85 is pretty huge.

I agree that it doesn't feel as maneuverable as a Warhawk without MASC. But you have to get used to using MASC effectively and when you do it's pretty sweet.

The hardest part for me is getting used to those damn gorilla arms. Good lord some of those arm lasers are down low!

[New Breed]

if I could go back in time I have would have just bought up to the EJ, but I'm stupid and like extra junk .

I think the only time I'll ever buy top tier again is if it has blood asp or kodiak.

Edited by Ghost Bear, 17 June 2015 - 10:38 AM.

[Revis Volek]

ACH75, on 17 June 2015 - 06:37 AM, said:

PGI racing in developing bad mechs sold at gold weight has really pissed me off...

Hit the Deck, on 17 June 2015 - 06:42 AM, said:

If I remember correctly, people DID ask for the Executioner. Ignoring that, its existence is valuable for testing MASC.

We yes DID ask for this mech and much like the Ubrie (which got us 360 degree twist) the Executioner got us MASC implemented into the game.

SO doing lots of stuff for money pisses you off? You better just stay away from business' in general then. (Hint: they all race to get things done for MONEY!)

Edited by DarthRevis, 17 June 2015 - 10:40 AM.

[CyclonerM]

DarthRevis, on 17 June 2015 - 10:40 AM, said:

SO doing lots of stuff for money pisses you off? You better just stay away from business' in general then. (Hint: they all race to get things done for MONEY!)

Hmm sure, but there are always different ways to make that money..

Back to topic now.. I figuratively have on my desk some Executioner configs, but until i have the real thing they will be just scrap "paper" and dreams. I will get one some day.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Khobai, on 17 June 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

um its a 95 ton mech of course its going to feel like a dire wolf.

expecting it to be as agile as a medium mech without masc being on is an absurd expectation

I'd agree, except the other 95 tonner we have is quite a bit more agile than a Direwolf. One model uses a Std335 and the other bounces between a Std350, XL380, and XL400 depending on my mood that day.

Although to be honest, I feel like the Sexecutioner is mostly fine as is.

[Quxudica]

Aresye Kerensky, on 17 June 2015 - 12:25 AM, said:

Let this be a lesson to myself to never, ever buy another top tier pack ever again.

Where to start?

Okay, first off, this thing feels absolutely no different than the Gargoyle. Actually scratch that. This thing feels absolutely no different than the Gargoyle...when using MASC. MASC is what the mech should feel like at its baseline, but instead you've got mobility that feels like it's a "slight" improvement over the Dire Wolf (aka: none at all).

Yes, once it is fully Elited it will feel a little different, but I've leveled up over a hundred mechs. I KNOW it isn't THAT big of a difference, and I can sure tell you right now that even when this thing is Elited, it's going straight into the garage to collect dust next to the Gargoyle, because no amount of X2 efficiencies will change this thing from the sluggish, underpowered, low-slung garbage that it is.

That brings me to my next point. This thing has got to have the LOWEST arm weapons of any mech in the entire game. Which wouldn't be too big of an issue except for the fact that the majority of its meager armament is contained in those arms! It's pretty much confined to a single niche role: Poking around a corner on completely flat terrain................and that's it. Lord help you if you have a gentle rolling hill between you and the enemy, because your arm weapons CAN and WILL hit it, leaving you will no other options in the other 99% of situations but to crest your entire body on the center of a hill. A tactic that even a Dire Wolf would laugh at.

Thankfully I never got the Bog tonight. I shudder to even think of it.

Lastly, weapons...or the general lack of them. A whopping 12 tons of locked equipment ensures you can barely run the same loadouts as a Stormcrow. I think I have more space in a pack of gum.

Alright, completely serious time.

In order for a mech to be viable, it has to have the edge in at least one of these areas:
- Overall Firepower/Free Tons/Crits
- Hardpoint Placement
- Mobility

The Summoner is at least somewhat viable because it has mobility and semi-decent hardpoint placement, which makes up for its severe lack of overall firepower.

The Adder makes up for its mobility by having more firepower than most lights, combined with decent hardpoint placement.

The Nova makes up for its mobility and hardpoint placement by its gratuitous amount of energy hardpoints.

Get the picture?

At least the Gargoyle has mobility to make up for its other shortcomings (sort of). The Executioner has absolutely no edge in any of these areas, and MASC, while nice, just doesn't give it enough of a boost to make it viable. Not even going to count jump jets due to the nature of jump jets on assault mechs, so they may as well not even be there.

I can already tell this grind won't be worth it. I may as well GXP everything just to be done with it, so I can have more time playing with my Cauldron Borns before PGI decides to nerf them. At least that way I'll be able to enjoy something viable that isn't a Timberwolf or Stormcrow.

Oh yeah, and those CT hitbox magnets? It's like they didn't even try to do any form of quality control on this thing whatsoever.

Kudos to the artists though. It's a beautiful mech and cockpit design, which makes it all the more sad that I'll likely never touch these things again. It's nice to know at least some people over at PGI do their job well.

If the game wasn't entirely based around Alpha Strike burst damage, mechs (and builds) that have fewer weapons wouldn't be so bloody awful. I continue to hope for a replacement Heat System. it would address so many of this games problems.