16 replies to this topic

[Antares102]

Simple question:
Why is there no true respawning in CW?

With true respawning I mean that after you die you can pick from the same 4 mechs in your drop deck again and again.

Currently I see only advantages if this was introduced:

• Current death match trend is eliminated from the game because its impossible and objectives are the real focus to win the game
  
• It would solve the drop zone camping because drop ships will eventually eliminate all campers and the game is reset.
  
• Better option for new players to learn the game because you have more actual play time
  
• The drop deck could really contain mechs with various roles and not just "more of the same" currently best mech. Attackers and defenders could actually "adapt" to the opponents tactics with a wide range of mech roles in the deck.
  
• It would allow for splitting the death ball because if a small group meant for distraction dies it doesnt mean the end of the game.
  
• With unlimited mechs you could also make more money in CW which should make it more attractive for everyone.
  
• Should be easy to implement.

[Smith Gibson]

I think true respawning would be a terrible idea. The whole purpose of MWO matches is to attack or defend an objective with only limited resources. When you win you have a feeling of accomplishing something. When you lose you try to figure out what you could do differently, either in tactics, or use of your limited resources.

Antares102, on 21 June 2015 - 04:07 AM, said:

• Current death match trend is eliminated from the game because its impossible and objectives are the real focus to win the game
  
• It would solve the drop zone camping because drop ships will eventually eliminate all campers and the game is reset.
  
• Better option for new players to learn the game because you have more actual play time
  
• The drop deck could really contain mechs with various roles and not just "more of the same" currently best mech. Attackers and defenders could actually "adapt" to the opponents tactics with a wide range of mech roles in the deck.
  
• It would allow for splitting the death ball because if a small group meant for distraction dies it doesnt mean the end of the game.
  
• With unlimited mechs you could also make more money in CW which should make it more attractive for everyone.
  
• Should be easy to implement.

• Death Match is the defender's only choice, if that is removed, then defending the objective becomes impossible.
  
• The drop zone camping problem can be fixed by allowing players to select their dropzone from multiple choices, or have the game automatically drop at the least threatened zone.
  
• Drop deck composition is the players choice, true respawning will have no effect on that.
  
• If a small group dies attempting a distraction, it should have an effect on the battle. having your actions have no consequence removes the reason behind CW in the first place.
  
• If you want more money in CW then just use the current deathmatch trend you mentioned at the start of your bullet list.
  
• Easy to implement does not mean it should be. Whether or not the idea would be an improvement should be the first factor in deciding to implement it or not.

[Gorgo7]

OP very interesting thought!
Would like to see what you have described instituted in public drops.
Players who don't own more then one could choose from the practice mechs available.
Of course Skirmish would have to be abolished but that would be fine.

[Appogee]

Awful idea, sorry. It would negate the whole point of drop tonnages.

[Antares102]

Appogee, on 21 June 2015 - 05:35 AM, said:

Awful idea, sorry. It would negate the whole point of drop tonnages.

Uhm drop deck tonnage would still apply and wont contradict the respawning.

[Appogee]

Antares102, on 21 June 2015 - 05:55 AM, said:

Uhm drop deck tonnage would still apply and wont contradict the respawning.

If I understood your idea correctly (?) I could take a Dire Wolf, a Hellbringer and two Adders ... and then just keep respawning in the Dire Wolf over and over. That makes drop deck tonnages irrelevant.

Edited by Appogee, 21 June 2015 - 06:08 AM.

[Antares102]

Smith Gibson, on 21 June 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

• Death Match is the defender's only choice, if that is removed, then defending the objective becomes impossible.

I am sorry, but this makes no sense whatsoever. The defenders objective is to DEFEND the OBJECTIVE for a given time.
This type of game mode works in so many other games.
MWO isnt so special that it cannot work here.

Smith Gibson, on 21 June 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

• The drop zone camping problem can be fixed by allowing players to select their dropzone from multiple choices, or have the game automatically drop at the least threatened zone.

Agreed, however the current drop zone farming is mostly an issue because you can kill mechs one by one with no losses because the farmed mechs are limited. If they were unlimited you just would lose time when being farmed.

Smith Gibson, on 21 June 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

• Drop deck composition is the players choice, true respawning will have no effect on that.

If I can bring four DIFFERENT roles in my drop deck I dont have to bring 4x laser vomit because its the most effective drop deck. For example if one's current drop deck consists of 3x EBJ and 1xIFR with all three EBJ haveing the SAME loadout true respawning would allow you to bring a single EBJ and an additonal two differently roled mechs.

Smith Gibson, on 21 June 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

• If a small group dies attempting a distraction, it should have an effect on the battle. having your actions have no consequence removes the reason behind CW in the first place.

Oh c'mon. When you have an objective based game such as destroying OGENs doing a distraction for getting down one OGEN is worth it.

Smith Gibson, on 21 June 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

• If you want more money in CW then just use the current deathmatch trend you mentioned at the start of your bullet list.

If you are a medicore player which dies early and doesnt do tons of damage with his four mechs, respawning would give him the chance to do MORE damage = MORE CBills after he wasted his 4th mech.

Smith Gibson, on 21 June 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

• Easy to implement does not mean it should be. Whether or not the idea would be an improvement should be the first factor in deciding to implement it or not.

Yes ok agreed.

Edited by Antares102, 21 June 2015 - 06:23 AM.

[Antares102]

Appogee, on 21 June 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

If I understood your idea correctly (?) I could take a Dire Wolf, a Hellbringer and two Adders ... and then just keep respawning in the Dire Wolf over and over. That makes drop deck tonnages irrelevant.

If a Direwolf is the right tool to counter the enemies tactics then yes.
However if you getting swarmed by lights in three consecutive waves then you might pick another mech probably.
Or if you have a 12 man premade and everybody needs to take the role of a scout some time you still need lights in your drop deck when its your turn to scout.

[Kin3ticX]

LOL no. This would be like a crazy mod you try once and then never try again.

[Antares102]

Kin3ticX, on 21 June 2015 - 06:37 AM, said:

LOL no. This would be like a crazy mod you try once and then never try again.

Reasons?

[Kin3ticX]

Antares102, on 21 June 2015 - 06:38 AM, said:

Reasons?

Do I really have to list all the crazy implications of unlimited respawns?

Disposable builds with small ammo bins, unlimited assaults, unlimited lights

After each wave the defenders all respawn for 100% mechs. Damaging a mech doesnt mean anything. Killing a mech doesnt mean anything. Unbreakable turtles, unstoppable rushes.

And on and on and on.

[Antares102]

Kin3ticX, on 21 June 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

Do I really have to list all the crazy implications of unlimited respawns?

Yes please so we can have a discussion.

Kin3ticX, on 21 June 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

Disposable builds with small ammo bins, unlimited assaults, unlimited lights

The limited ammo is actually very much lore.
A lore AC5 is fielded with at most 2 tons. In MWO you can all the way go up to 6 tons per AC5.
Unlimited swings both ways and the "unlimited" also allows you to adapt with the next wave and or
which your tactics up.
Current LRM/AC mechs have half of their loadout allocated to ammo which limits your loadout flexibility tremendously.

Kin3ticX, on 21 June 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

After each wave the defenders all respawn for 100% mechs. Damaging a mech doesnt mean anything. Killing a mech doesnt mean anything. Unbreakable turtles, unstoppable rushes.

Destroying a bunch of enemy mech gives you a short period of time which allows you to allocate more resources to reach one of the objectives, i.e. destroying an OGEN until reinforcements arrive.
Obviously you have to be fast and coordinated exactly what the current game also asks of you.

If the defenders have a good turtle from one angle which you cannot crack you actually have the chance to switch everyhting up (by ejecting) and use a different approach. WIth the current system till you realize that you cannot crack the enemy you already lost too much reources to do another successfull attack. Especially with the new arrangement of OGENs and OMEGA.

Edited by Antares102, 21 June 2015 - 07:29 AM.

[Captain Carrot Ironfoundersson]

No not a good idea but how about new players can come in to the match as reinforcements after some players die their spots open up for new players to join And no players that where all ready in the match can't rejoin they will be locked out of that match.

Yes they might not get a lot of play if they join at the end of time or omega is destroyed this is where new game mods come in. As in have one capture the HPG which would give you a brief scan and positions of the enemy say 15 secs.

Next map would be an invasion map which would gain you a base to lunch you attacks from meaning faster drops from drops ships as they won't need to go as far.

Then have a take a capital city map which allows you to takes control of the planet most which leads to a resistance map where you must protect you commander from the enemy

if he dies then the planet is lost what I mean by commander is no the company commander but the commander of the invasion of that planet.

[Fenrisian Wolf]

Antares102, on 21 June 2015 - 04:07 AM, said:

Simple question:
Why is there no true respawning in CW?

With true respawning I mean that after you die you can pick from the same 4 mechs in your drop deck again and again.

Currently I see only advantages if this was introduced:

• Current death match trend is eliminated from the game because its impossible and objectives are the real focus to win the game
  
• It would solve the drop zone camping because drop ships will eventually eliminate all campers and the game is reset.
  
• Better option for new players to learn the game because you have more actual play time
  
• The drop deck could really contain mechs with various roles and not just "more of the same" currently best mech. Attackers and defenders could actually "adapt" to the opponents tactics with a wide range of mech roles in the deck.
  
• It would allow for splitting the death ball because if a small group meant for distraction dies it doesnt mean the end of the game.
  
• With unlimited mechs you could also make more money in CW which should make it more attractive for everyone.
  
• Should be easy to implement.

Why would they do this? I don't see Community Warfare as broken and no the Objectives are not the true purpose. They are a purpose, but there is a reason they made it harder to rush the gens and Omega. The Gens and Omega add an objective and them being there adds another depth of strategy to the game.

[Fenrisian Wolf]

william ryalls, on 21 June 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

No not a good idea but how about new players can come in to the match as reinforcements after some players die their spots open up for new players to join And no players that where all ready in the match can't rejoin they will be locked out of that match.

Yes they might not get a lot of play if they join at the end of time or omega is destroyed this is where new game mods come in. As in have one capture the HPG which would give you a brief scan and positions of the enemy say 15 secs.

Next map would be an invasion map which would gain you a base to lunch you attacks from meaning faster drops from drops ships as they won't need to go as far.

Then have a take a capital city map which allows you to takes control of the planet most which leads to a resistance map where you must protect you commander from the enemy

if he dies then the planet is lost what I mean by commander is no the company commander but the commander of the invasion of that planet.

What you said gave me an idea What if you had a flag mech game mode where the purpose was to defend your flag mech. Both teams have a flag mech (commander) and if that mech dies then the game is lost. Its like Girls und Panzers.

[Antares102]

Fenrisian Wolf, on 21 June 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

... no the Objectives are not the true purpose.

If the objectives are not the objectives then .. well... CW is just a death match which people are complaining about.

[o0Marduk0o]

Don't give PGI more reasons to ignore the forum. Stop it.