93 replies to this topic

[Alek Ituin]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 June 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

Um if you did any actual looking at the Gargoyle and Executioner you would have seen there is not a lot of weight for weapons on either chassis. Never has.

People buy coal, expect diamonds, then complain when they get coal.

Just how it works.

[Nightshade24]

The GaussFather, on 17 June 2015 - 03:15 AM, said:

P.S.

Maybe consider a few fixes to ease the disappointment:

• Shorten the arms and put the first mounts on the SIDE of the arms.
  
• Allow us to remove some of the useless extra Jump Jets to free up some space and tonnage
  
• Get rid of the fixed double heat sink in the RT that stops us from putting a UAC20 or LBX20 in there
  
• Switch ferrous fiber to endo-steel or just add endo-steel so it can carry some heavy weapons
  
• Make MASC something you can remove in the mechlab

Forgot about that one... still 1 out of 4 isn't fantastic... and without ECM the Hellbringer woudn't be near as impressive or useful. Maybe get the Hellbringer designer to buff the Executioner

1: would most likely ruin the mechs looks and will make it no different then a direwolf or warhawk. The ability to put weapons on the sides should be left for a later on overhaul on different clan components.

This like removing more actuators from a direwolf*¹ to make it higher mounted or the mad dog C^*2...
Things like putting ballistics on a direwolf*¹ in different locations or the mist lynx*³.
Things like having symetrical or not symmetrical arms on the timberwolf, Ebon jaguar, Kitfox, Summoner, etc.

etc...

*1
(Direwolf widowmaker only?)
(notice the direwolf B having 4 UAC 4's in the high mount where the missile launcher used to be)
*2
(C arms only)
*3
(LRM's only, quirk bonus to make it high arc)




I do hope there will be a time for things like this happening. Quirks will need to be changed for each one...

Ie higher mount less flexible arms will have maybe a cooldown penalty, minor velocity quirk, and slower arm movement speed.
higher mounted ballistics can be only for things that are not gauss on the direwolf, However it will reduce fire rate maybe or slightly increase jam chance (or no jam chance quirk as torsoes lower down get it instead)


The thing is they need to get clan quirks right first done with first and find a way to make skins more modular.


The reason weapons are undersling are for lore related reasons and majority of the players are much more happier about htat instead of min maxing meta cheese. The ability to make things higher and such should be added to make clans feel more unique and able to be modular and such, however should come with penalties... kinda like timberwolf A side torso


2) This is the only assault mech that isn't barely not a heavy that can jump over a rock and them some. I have seen people properly pop tarting in this thing and many people question if they made assault mech jumpjets better. I think this is far from useless and I quite enjoy the JJ.

3) What stops you from putting the LBX 20 or UAC 20 in the arm instead?

4) you expect them to break lore just for this thing to be more of a meta mech AND THEN on top of that buff it so it can do things like your question for point 3? Nope... please no.

5) leave this till we see how IS MASC is handled. but I like the idea it's hardwired for most omnis in MW: O.
removable MASC should be reserved for Battlemechs for clans ie IIC's.




Heres my ideas for fixes:

I) Fix the CT size, heard it's gonna be fixed tomorrow but will point this out now

II) UAC jam chance quirks for the variant with the UAC 20

III) ER PPC quirk would be appreciated on the same variant, and minor energy quirks for the prime as well.

IV) increase leg structure and reduce fall damage by 5% as this mech was made to take a bit of a fall a little bit...

V) Put the C in game.

VI ) Omnipod set bonuses support the stock builds strongly.

VII) Add a mimic of the G variant, it's out of our timeline but replacing streak LRM 15 for a LRM 15 and the watchdog system for normal BAP and ECM could make this thing very unique, a M + E arm, ECM hardpoint, etc.

VIII) Vlad Ward used an Executioner with twin Gauss Rifles, two Large Lasers and four Medium Pulse Lasers should be the hero mech.

Adds a ballsitic arm to the other side and 6 energy all over the place. That way you can mount your lil duel UAC 20 build that you want so bad.



This is some ideas which will require waiting a little bit after awhile to see how this things settles.

you are judging this mech most likely without mastery. We knew from the start this was not gonna be a meta mech. it focuses to heavily on things not weapons, which makes it unique. clan mechs push the boundries and makes things unique and cool and stuff. IS mechs should take example. Woud like to see some IS lights forced down to 110 to 140 kph instead of having nearly all over them 150 kph+. (I can say this confidently as I own all IS light mechs in game and love every one of them but I also own every clan one and they are very intersting!)

If you do not want MASC, jumpjets, etc. then just use the gargoyle mate or wait for the kodiak...

[Bishop Steiner]

Darth Bane001, on 17 June 2015 - 11:19 PM, said:

I will say the executioner is a terrible assault mech I go one on one against them several times now and walked away while they were dead and thats in my fs9-a with a xl engine...

maybe try it in a mech that actually registers damage, next time?

[The GaussFather]

Wow... was traveling for a couple of days and didn't expect so many replies to my thread. Lots of valid points made for and against my original complaint. I don't even mind the sarcastic and outraged ones.

I can't respond to most of them, but thanks for sharing your opinion!

I just will try to add some "math" to my original subjective complaints on the Executioner. As table below shows, it carries about the same tonnage of armament as a Stormcrow or Hellbringer.

I didn't expect my Exes to outgun a DW but I figured I could carry 2 Gauss rifles & ammo. But its barely doable only if I drop a lot of armor... but then what is the point of running an assault? You are a HUGE target so you need the armor.

Was I "misled" by PGI? Not intentionally... but if I had known it was so limited in payload I would have been much more skeptical. When you see the stock loadouts you don't notice how much armor was taken off to make it work.

Did PGI mention the Exe was limited to a "niche" role in the all the advertising? No way! Push those mechs out the door, baby!

So Gargoyle's are hurt by the huge 400xl in tonnage which was expected...

But with just a little flexibility regarding MASC, heatsink and JJs for the Executioner we could build some of the variants more powerful and not regulate them to just LASER VOMIT builds. Why do I need 4 laser vomit builds? I frankly dislike them compared to ballistics and balanced builds. (But that's just my preference.)

Gauss Sniper/Poptart build? Summoner does that better... & Thank goodness for the Ebon Jaguar at least its fast and powerful!

Mech, Tonnage, Free Tonnage (@Max Armor), % of Tonnage

Stormcrow 55 22.86 41.56%
Hellbringer 65 23.31 35.86%
Ebon Jaguar 65 28.51 43.86%
Summoner 70 20.69 29.56%
Timberwolf 75 27.46 36.61%
Gargoyle 80 19.63 24.54%
Warhawk 85 32.3 38.00%

Executioner 95 24.73 26.03%

Executioner 95 33.73 35.51%
(minus 2JJs, 1
Heatsink & Masc)

Direwolf 100 50.31 50.31%
Banshee 380xl 95 39.68 41.77%
Banshee 350std 95 35.18 37.03%
(endo)
Shadowhawk 5M 55 27.93 50.78%
255xl (endo)

(tried to put it in as a normal table but couldn't get this editor to accept it)

So my Shadowhawk 5M can carry the same firepower as my (2AC5s & PPC) as my Executioner! LOL and do it in a smaller and more maneuverable package.

One of the problems with MWO is that people like to talk alot about "roles" but honestly the maps and gameplay don't fit real tactical roles except maybe on Alpine Peaks. Otherwise its just usually a firefight in the middle. The roles are typically: LRM Boat, Snipers/Poptarts, Light pack of harassers/spotters, and Brawlers.

All this talk of "Skirmishers/Cavalry" role that the Exe & Gargolye are supposed to fill is just "military fantasy tactics" that people would hope MWO could provide, and could only really be properly accomplished with a good 12 man team or lance in the right map. Don't even get me started on CW. Calvary unit in CW? LOL Maybe in a couple years with a major redesign.

So last note... Banshee is a great mech... one of my favorites. I hoped the Exe could be as good. But in current form it can't stand toe to to with one (pilots being of comparable skill). If you look at the table its easy to see why. Banshee will outgun it in most configurations with comparable speed.

BUT if PGI gives players a CHOICE to remove MASC and/or a some jumpjets and maybe that heatsink then you have an Assault mech that can also brawl like an assault, which is what 90% of the people (want to) do in this game with assaults.

Edited by The GaussFather, 18 June 2015 - 07:22 AM.

[FlipOver]

Taking your tables values as valid ones (I'm not going to confirm or refute them) and the comparison between the Executioner and Banshee there is only one of the values worth comparing:

Executioner 95..... 24.73.. 26.03%
vs
Banshee 350std 95..... 35.18.. 37.03%
(endo)

Why don't I consider the Banshee with XL? Because you lose 1 side torso and you are gone and the same doesn't apply to the Executioner.

In here you are comparing 2 mechs with each other but are forgeting that you can change the hardpoints on the Executioner to make it more versatile and more up-to-date with the flavor of the month (FOTM) - being it quirks or weapon buff/nerf.

With this, yes you have an IS counterpart of the Executioner with more free tonnage, but also with more tonnage used with some items like ERLL (5 tons IS vs 4 tons Clan).

If you give the same amount of free tonnage as the IS mechs have, you will have an extremely unbalanced situation on your hands.

Maybe some like that, I sure don't and that's why I don't think there is an issue here, to be honest.

Edited by FlipOver, 18 June 2015 - 10:04 AM.

[Ultimax]

The GaussFather, on 18 June 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

So my Shadowhawk 5M can carry the same firepower as my (2AC5s & PPC) as my Executioner! LOL and do it in a smaller and more maneuverable package.

With a top speed slower than the SCR, every clan Heavy mech and the Gargoyle.

With an IS XL engine vulnerability, and medium mech armor.



Now what happens when you play to the EXE's strengths?



http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1c488974fad98d9


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8b9db0060e534c7


Good luck matching that in your Shadowhawk.

[Antares102]

The only thing I really wanted are legs without jump jets.

Edited by Antares102, 18 June 2015 - 10:43 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

There are no DOA mechs! Only incompatible playstyles!!!

[DaZur]

cdlord, on 18 June 2015 - 11:41 AM, said:

There are no DOA mechs! Only incompatible playstyles!!!

Sooo... incompatible play styles = /= DOA mechs = DOA Pilots?

[BattleGnome]

What's the point of using an Executioner if you don't have MASC? If I wanted more pod space, no MASC yet some mobility, I'd use a Warhawk.

[CDLord HHGD]

DaZur, on 18 June 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Sooo... incompatible play styles = /= DOA mechs = DOA Pilots?

Well, I try not to call a people DOA (grammar intentional). Essentially yes, especially those that come on the forum to spout how bad a mech is / how they are incapable of playing it.

[The GaussFather]

Ultimatum X, on 18 June 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

With a top speed slower than the SCR, every clan Heavy mech and the Gargoyle.

With an IS XL engine vulnerability, and medium mech armor.



Now what happens when you play to the EXE's strengths?



http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1c488974fad98d9


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8b9db0060e534c7


Good luck matching that in your Shadowhawk.

At 82 km/h You don't notice the difference between it and a 89km/h Clan mech on most maps. If you want to carry less ammo you can use a 280xl. And for an IS mech a Shadowhawk is really XL durable. But you miss the point... A Shadowhawk shouldn't be even close to challenging a 95 ton Clan Assault mech... yet it is versus the Executioner in the right hands.

[The GaussFather]

Actually... my burning question is how you guys manage to load jpgs in this new forum editor... the old one allowed me to cut and paste photos but now every time I save it doesn't go online... is there a trick I'm missing? Thanks!

[Mcgral18]

The GaussFather, on 18 June 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

Actually... my burning question is how you guys manage to load jpgs in this new forum editor... the old one allowed me to cut and paste photos but now every time I save it doesn't go online... is there a trick I'm missing? Thanks!

(img) (/img)

Replace the parentheses with square brackets []. Or press the square looking button on the toolbar with Bold, Italic, roughly halfway through.

Edited by Mcgral18, 18 June 2015 - 01:30 PM.