33 replies to this topic

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

On the next quirk pass, I feel the Shadowhawk really needs to be re-examined as it currently has no significant role in the current meta and the only reason to play it is for its hardpoints. The other mechs in its weight class outshine it in nearly every way due to their quirks alone. I find that most of the time when I pilot the hawk, its mostly for nostalgia purposes as the other mediums are far more effective.

The Griffin is the brawler / PPC platform
The Kintaro is the SRM/LRM boat
The Wolverine is the high DPS with weak gun arm

Really the only unique "role" build for this mech is the 3 ERLL hill-humper on the 2k.

I understand that the Shadowhawk was considered as the top-tier medium before quirks and the lack of them are to compensate for this but I feel that the mech can be buffed to give it a defined role without also making it OP.

My suggestion is give most of the variants significant Autocannon Projectile velocity buff at around 40-50% along with small cooldown and range buffs, this would not increase the DPS to the level of the Dragon or Wolverine (which is fair because it has much better hardpoint placement than those 2 mechs).

This would help differentiate it from the Hunchback which has significant range/cooldown quirks and it would also serve to encourage players to use the primary "lore" weapon as it will be significantly more accurate and useful.

Thoughts?

[FupDup]

It's the same treatment that Highlanders, Catapults, Cataphracts, and Victors have been given for once being the top mechs in their class...like 2 years ago.


Anyways, for improving the Shaddy, what I'd want first is to increase the torso twist radius at least a little bit. 90 degrees default is pretty heavilyconstricted for a medium mech, it feels like you're wearing a straight jacket even though the whole point of mediums is to be pretty maneuverable. Put it up to at least 100 degrees, maybe as high as 110-115.

[Mcgral18]

2H could use moderate AC RoF buffs.

2s (hey, it's fun!) with heat, or the better 5's from 7.5% to 15% or 20%.


Due to high mounts, you don't want quirks too high.

Edited by Mcgral18, 09 June 2015 - 11:35 AM.

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

FupDup, on 09 June 2015 - 11:32 AM, said:

It's the same treatment that Highlanders, Catapults, Cataphracts, and Victors have been given for once being the top mechs in their class...like 2 years ago.


Anyways, for improving the Shaddy, what I'd want first is to increase the torso twist radius at least a little bit. 90 degrees default is pretty heavilyconstricted for a medium mech, it feels like you're wearing a straight jacket even though the whole point of mediums is to be pretty maneuverable. Put it up to at least 100 degrees, maybe as high as 110-115.

I do agree with you that the above mechs are indeed underquirked but other than the Victor, the rest of them have at least quirks in the 10-20% range while the Shadowhawk is at 7.5% nearly across the board. In addition the Victor and Highlander are distinct in that they are IS assaults that are jump capable, if jumpjets were adjusted properly for assaults the Highlander would instantly become viable so I would argue it is a JJ issue not a mech issue for that specific mech.

For the case of the Shadowhawk, both the Wolverine and the Griffin are the exact same weight and jump capable so in that regard, there is nothing that differentiates them.

Mcgral18, on 09 June 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Due to high mounts, you don't want quirks too high.

I agree completely, which is why I would advocate for major velocity buffs which do not increase DPS, only accuracy.
I mean the mech has a gigantic cannon on its shoulder, shouldn't the projectile move way faster as a result?

[jss78]

Aren't they kind of generalists in lore too, though? I wonder how much could or should be done to make them kick a** in some narrow role in MWO.

Anyway, if new quirks, whatever but projectile velocity quirks. Those should never be done IMHO, not for any mech or weapon. I'd really hate to have to learn and lead shots differently in my SHD's vs. other AC mechs.

(While they might be a bit lackluster, they actually look decently popular where I play, which is low/mid Elo PuG. I'm sure it's a different story in the competitive circuit.)

[HoundOfCullan]

Shadowhawk is my fav IS mech. Making it even better sounds great.

[Cyborne Elemental]

They all could use some quirking, just as long as its not "Hunchback" level quirking

I think bumping up those 5-7% up to 12-15 might be pressing it, but as long as they're specific to Stock builds, should be ok.

[Hit the Deck]

The only good design from Shadowhawks is their high mounted ballistic or energy mounts. The arm mounted energy hardpoints hang low from the cockpit and they don't create good synergy with the shoulder hardpoint(s) because of the distance. This 'mech is rather confusing to quirk because it's one that has it all (all type of hardpoints and JJs like the Highlander and Victor) but not enough energy hardpoints to laser boat. The only variant that's easy to quirk would be the 2K because it's so obvious.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 09 June 2015 - 01:24 PM.

[Tapdancing Kerensky]

Good hardpoint mounts are basically a quirk in themselves.

[Nullmancer]

I'd like to see mobility quirks, but then again I tend to feel that way about every other medium I pilot

Quirks I'd like to see are acceleration/deceleration, turn rate, maybe better torso twist or twist rate, something to get the torso mounts on target easier.

weapon quirks I don't mind being mediocre, certain SHD's having slightly better AC 2/5/UAC5 quirks would be nice, maybe add some LRM quirks here and there as well, to encourage some variety in loadout.


basically I'd like to see stronger ability to place your shots through manouverability, then a straight up firepower increase

[Gigastrike]

Not sure why you're demanding that it have a clear "role" since the mech is supposed to be as well rounded as they come. Some torso twist buffs could be nice, though. It's an awfully constricting mech for it's weight class.

And the Wolverine needs to be redone. Those AC quirks are weird on what is supposed to be a close range fighter (and is even built for it in terms of hardpoint locations).

Edited by Gigastrike, 09 June 2015 - 03:19 PM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I'm over quirks, and ready for them to be replaced with a better system.
The way they are implemented is forces players to play PGIs way or don't play at all.
It didn't take long to get bored playing their way.
At least I still have ForumWarriorOnline.

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

Gigastrike, on 09 June 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

Not sure why you're demanding that it have a clear "role" since the mech is supposed to be as well rounded as they come. Some torso twist buffs could be nice, though. It's an awfully constricting mech for it's weight class.

And the Wolverine needs to be redone. Those AC quirks are weird on what is supposed to be a close range fighter (and is even built for it in terms of hardpoint locations).

I don't think my OP was written in a way that could be interpreted as a demand.
Its just obvious that the SHD is underpowered in comparison to other mechs in its weight class, I was making a suggestion on how to buff it without making it OP or unbalanced. If you have other ideas then that's great.

[HollowBassman]

I would very happy if the Grey Death could get a UAC5 jam chance reduction quirk.

[Soulscour]

A jumpjet medium with high ballistic hardpoints. No quirks needed. The victor on the other hand needs something. Quirks are supposed to bring lesser mechs up to the same level as the better mechs. If people are playing mechs for the quirks more than the top mechs then the quirks need to be reduced. Making the top mechs better doesn't address the balance issue. Some quirks are just to good right now.

[Gyrok]

There should be a SHD that has almost Grid Iron level gauss quirks...thinking the 5M, but not fully sold on it.

The 2K should get better STD LL quirks (maybe add 10-15% LL range to the current quirks, nothing more...)

The 2H should get serious AC2 love...like...bring it back to the hey day of 3xAC2 Shawk.

The 2D should get AC20 buffs...thinking + 10-15% velocity and maybe + 10% cooldown, not sure it really needs a cooldown buff at all...and range being limited, maybe give the MLs a 10% range boost.

2D2 was always a streak/LRM/SRM boat, give it some decent quirks there...maybe SRM4 velocity/spread or cooldown...something.

One thing though...does not need structure buffs...hit boxes on that mech were kissed by the same gods that blessed the FS9. Get a SHD around 100 kph and you can tank like crazy.

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

Soulscour, on 09 June 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

A jumpjet medium with high ballistic hardpoints. No quirks needed. The victor on the other hand needs something. Quirks are supposed to bring lesser mechs up to the same level as the better mechs. If people are playing mechs for the quirks more than the top mechs then the quirks need to be reduced. Making the top mechs better doesn't address the balance issue. Some quirks are just to good right now.

So tell me, how good is a jump sniper with high hardpoints who's max alpha is 10 damage from said hardpoint? Factoring JJ recharge time, your effective DPS is next to nothing. The reason the Victor was so good was its ability to jump combined with its high alpha potential. Since when is the shadowhawk still considered a top mech?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gyrok, on 09 June 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

Get a SHD around 100 kph and you can tank like crazy.

So like the Stormcrow, but more fragile because dat IS XL engine?

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 09 June 2015 - 09:35 PM.

[Black Ivan]

Since MWO is all about the Quirks, something like a generalist is useless, since the Quirk system by PGI favours specialization in the most ridicouless ways.

[Xetelian]

That CTF 0XP has the kind of buffs most of these innersphere mechs need.

Kind of sad that they buffed the hell out of the one they sold in the gift store but not the others.