48 replies to this topic

[Strum Wealh]

Andi Nagasia, on 19 June 2015 - 07:56 PM, said:

the link is to Sarna is just about her basic info,
Sarna is a good wiki but it doesnt have all the info, as no Wiki does,
Lupus in one of the books(cant remember which one, i have all so ill have to look),
says that Ranna's WHK Omni had Less armor but more Internal space than the Standard,
so based on that and how FASA constructed and wrote the Novels i made my conclusions,

And your conclusion is wrong.

Ranna's 'Mech is mentioned by name in Lost Destiny, and only in the context of Phelan monologuing that she's working on it while he's showering.

Spoiler

Phelan let the shower's hot water drum numbness into his brain. Hours and hours of sitting in front of a computer console reviewing thousands of files had made his eyes burn and his shoulders ache. When he realized he'd placed a cup of soup in a microwave, then forgot to turn it on, he decided to call it a day. As Ranna was working to reconfigure her Lupus before their next assault, he decided to relax by taking a shower.

The gymnasium shower room was empty when he arrived, but the hiss of a second shower spray brought Phelan around. He smiled until he could clear the water from his eyes, then he spat at the floor. "Taking a shower, Vlad? I thought you had to be degreased."

Lost Destiny, ch. 13

There is no mention of Ranna's 'Mech having an Endo-Steel structure, but plenty of mentions of its armaments across various books, so that we know that her preferred configurations are the Prime and C configurations.

On top of that, those cases that are mentioned in Lost Destiny seems to assert that every 'Mech has an Endo-Steel structure, including a ComGuard Exterminator in chapter 34 (there is no Endo-Steel equipped Exterminator variant) and the Black Hawk that Phelan used in his second Bloodname trial against an Aerospace Fighter in chapter 17 (as we all know, the Black Hawk does not have an Endo Steel structure, and the Clans - even the relatively egalitarian Clan Wolf - aren't going to change that for a non-Bloodnamed freeborn).

So, when your original argument (that Ranna's Masakari had an Endo-Steel skeleton) is outright wrong AND the similar argument (based on Phelan's Black Hawk) is based on an obvious continuity error, it doesn't help your case.

[Andi Nagasia]

ive read that Lupus(WHK) had MoreTonnage@LessArmor, so im assuming it was a Ferro/Endo Swap,
now am i 100% Sure that it had Endo no, im assuming so based on the information in TT and in the Novels,
and as the BattleTech Novels are based on actual TT games, im also working with that source as well,
looking up the actual People and Games of which the stories where written of off, the True Source,

in my topic (Ferro To Endo Upgrade Swapping For Omni-Mechs! Discussion!)
ive have listed how Endo/Ferro Swapping can be possible within the TT Omni Construction Rules,
which doesnt explicitly break the Rules, as they say Omnis cant Upgrade and those points Must be Fixed,
this is not an Upgrade but an Upgrade Swap so the number of Upgrades/FixedPoints stays the same,
Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 20 June 2015 - 07:49 AM.

[Water Bear]

cSand, on 19 June 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

Watering down everything so the subset of players who simply can't do it right anyways is pointless. You will not achieve a perfect balance in this game becuase of the nature of the game. Embrace all the differences of all the chassis, and instead of trying to get uncle PGI to sandbag for you, pick your favourite mech, grow a pair, and get better in it. All the "balance" issues that are apparently holding you down will disappear

Catering to the lowest common denominator, in any situation, simply enables and perpetuates mediocrity

What are you referring to exactly? We are not advocating watering down any mech; We are advocated that weak mechs be strengthened.

If you are referring to Clan and IS balance in general, that's a different thing.

I'm honestly not exactly sure what you're saying.

Edit: Ah, I think I figured it out. You're saying that unlocking endo / ferro waters things down. OK, whatever. I guess we've both said all we have to say.

Edited by Water Bear, 20 June 2015 - 08:16 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

Andi Nagasia, on 20 June 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

ive read that Lupus(WHK) had MoreTonnage@LessArmor, so im assuming it was a Ferro/Endo Swap,
now am i 100% Sure that it had Endo no, im assuming so based on the information in TT and in the Novels,
and as the BattleTech Novels are based on actual TT games, im also working with that source as well,
looking up the actual People and Games of which the stories where written of off, the True Source,

in my topic (Ferro To Endo Upgrade Swapping For Omni-Mechs! Discussion!)
ive have listed how Endo/Ferro Swapping can be possible within the TT Omni Construction Rules,
which doesnt explicitly break the Rules, as they say Omnis cant Upgrade and those points Must be Fixed,
this is not an Upgrade but an Upgrade Swap so the number of Upgrades/FixedPoints stays the same,
Edit-

"OmniMechs: The type of internal structure and placement of any critical slots required must be determined upon the design of the base configuration. All complete primary and alternate configurations thereafter must use the same arrangement of internal structure critical slots." - TechManual, pg. 47

It's rather explicit - the type of internal structure (as well as the allotment of critical spaces) is fixed for OmniMechs, and is determined during the design of the base configuration.

[Andi Nagasia]

Strum Wealh, on 20 June 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

"OmniMechs: The type of internal structure and placement of any critical slots required must be determined upon the design of the base configuration. All complete primary and alternate configurations thereafter must use the same arrangement of internal structure critical slots." - TechManual, pg. 47

It's rather explicit - the type of internal structure (as well as the allotment of critical spaces) is fixed for OmniMechs, and is determined during the design of the base configuration.

Understandable, but if Ferro to Endo Swapping where allowed,
then those Fixed internal structure critical slots would not change,
as the number of Upgrades is still 1, so it still has 7 Locked Crit Slots,

for Example, a Summoner(Armor not maxed) Switching Ferro for Endo,
would gain +2Tons, but it would still keep its 7 Locked Crits as it has 1 Upgrade,
Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 20 June 2015 - 04:59 PM.

[Ragtag soldier]

Andi Nagasia, on 20 June 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

Understandable, but-

no buts, you can't change the internal structure of an omnimech unless you want it to cease being an omnimech. just because you want something doesn't mean you get to feign ignorance to everyone telling why it's not a good or established idea.

[Mcgral18]

Ragtag soldier, on 20 June 2015 - 05:47 PM, said:

no buts, you can't change the internal structure of an omnimech unless you want it to cease being an omnimech. just because you want something doesn't mean you get to feign ignorance to everyone telling why it's not a good or established idea.

You realize that Battlemechs are superior in MWO?

Summoner D and Nova Prime and S come to mind; adequate hardpoints, yet absolutely terrible construction.

Summoner could become a wonderful Dual Gauss chassis with Endo and a smaller engine (which Battlemechs can do).


All he's suggesting is stop gimping the bad robots.

[Andi Nagasia]

Ragtag soldier, on 20 June 2015 - 05:47 PM, said:

no buts, you can't change the internal structure of an omnimech unless you want it to cease being an omnimech. just because you want something doesn't mean you get to feign ignorance to everyone telling why it's not a good or established idea.

if you are Suggesting the Rules of MWO never Grow past what is Established in TT,
then i would say let OmniMechs be able to Equip Any OmniPod Any Where, as According to the TT Rules,
if we are to Follow Omni Construction Rules, then we need to Follow All the Omni Construction Rules,
Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 20 June 2015 - 07:16 PM.

[Xetelian]

Unlock the upgrades, that is why they are upgrades.