37 replies to this topic

[Havyek]

guy0320, on 20 June 2015 - 04:51 PM, said:

The problem that I am upset with is the fact that all the objectives are in the same place which means that all that happens is the defense balling up near omega and the attackers throwing mechs at the defensive line. They might as well just get rid of the O-gens and quadruple the health of Omega. Strategic use of tactics is dead. This is great for those who just want to shoot other mechs in arena combat with respawns. This is terrible for people who want to play a thinking-man's game where flanking, counter-flanking, and feinting can actually make a difference.

If that's your concern, then you could always try flanking, feinting, counter-flanking etc while shooting the enemy?
Generally 'Mechs have less armour on their backs.

[Summon3r]

o-gens should have been left where they were for the most part but with the protective shrouds added to them

[Jon Gotham]

guy0320, on 20 June 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

As long as you scouted and kept your forces within running distance of the gens, light rushes were fairly easy to fight off.

I must have never faced decent opponents then..every single 12 light gen rush I've been a part of has 100% worked. As long as your guys have a modicum of discipline, pre o-gen move it was the #1 way to do it.

Oh Weztside, Idon't think it's all PGI's fault that it has been watered down either. We the playerbase have a list of crimes to answer for on that score, just look at the threads people keep creating about "premades and farmers."

[Trev Firestorm]

Kin3ticX, on 20 June 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

Gen rushing was getting abused.

Rushing the objectives in an objective based mode is never abuse. Try again.

Moving the O-gens was a terrible move, some maps the spawn location move is questionable as well, attackers can get the gates down before defenders can get to them if the attackers don't stall.

Edited by Trev Firestorm, 21 June 2015 - 09:37 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

Trev Firestorm, on 21 June 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

Rushing the objectives in an objective based mode is never abuse. Try again.

Suicide rushing the objective is abuse the objective based mode. Please do quote again.

[Weztside]

Kin3ticX, on 21 June 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

Suicide rushing the objective is abuse the objective based mode. Please do quote again.

It's not abuse. Suicide rushing an objective is an actual tactic used in many real life scenarios throughout history. The more notorious perpetrators being the Japanese and Russian forces during WWII. There is plenty of real life precedent here as well as lore in Battletech that backs up the tactic for both sides of the fight. The only reason people label it as abuse and cheap is because they're aren't enough tools in the game for people to adapt while in the match. That being said, light rushes and suicide rushes are very easy to counter if you are capable of thinking and using logic along side teamwork.

[Kin3ticX]

Weztside, on 21 June 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:

It's not abuse. Suicide rushing an objective is an actual tactic used in many real life scenarios throughout history. The more notorious perpetrators being the Japanese and Russian forces during WWII. There is plenty of real life precedent here as well as lore in Battletech that backs up the tactic for both sides of the fight. The only reason people label it as abuse and cheap is because they're aren't enough tools in the game for people to adapt while in the match. That being said, light rushes and suicide rushes are very easy to counter if you are capable of thinking and using logic along side teamwork.

Ohh god, not with the RL stuff. This is a videogame. These debates are so pointless..

Edited by Kin3ticX, 21 June 2015 - 12:01 PM.

[guy0320]

The point is that light rushes were not so unstoppable that it warranted both moving and covering the O-gens when doing either would have been enough. The drop zone movement was probably for the better, but I still have mixed feelings about it

[TWIAFU]

Havyek, on 21 June 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

If that's your concern, then you could always try flanking, feinting, counter-flanking etc while shooting the enemy?
Generally 'Mechs have less armour on their backs.

Wait?!

What?!

You mean there is more to piloting a mech then just moving forward and backward, playing peek a boo?

[guy0320]

Havyek, on 21 June 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

If that's your concern, then you could always try flanking, feinting, counter-flanking etc while shooting the enemy?
Generally 'Mechs have less armour on their backs.

My concern isn't for the ability to flank around and hit a mech. My concern is that the objective based combat that made CW different from the public team deathmatch is now gone. CW is now just 4 rounds of skirmish on every mode.

[Weztside]

If that is truly your concern than its a bit late. Even before the recent changes to objectives CW had already sunk to the same level as assault and conquest. Team death match with different spawn zones....

[Mystere]

Kin3ticX, on 21 June 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

Ohh god, not with the RL stuff. This is a videogame. These debates are so pointless..

People give examples of tactics, and your reply is that MWO is a video game. With players like you, it's no wonder there are so many Rambos who complain that their loss is the fault of their teammates.

TWIAFU, on 21 June 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:

Wait?!

What?!

You mean there is more to piloting a mech then just moving forward and backward, playing peek a boo?

Backward? You can move backward?





LOL.

Edited by Mystere, 21 June 2015 - 07:20 PM.

[Anjian]

Actually, destruction of ogens by light rushes is more of a strategy than tactics.

Strategy is used to define the overall approach, method or theme to achieve victory.

Tactics is more used to define the incremental, immediate steps to accomplish the strategy and achieve victory.

For example, choosing to attack Alpha gate instead of Beta, securing the C2 and C3 line, everyone move to the right side, this is more like tactics. Or, leave the gate to counterattack when the first wave is defeated, or choose to defend area around Omega, these are more like tactics.

There are plenty of tactics in team deathmatches.

We will however, lament the loss of variable strategies (choosing to annihilate enemy team first or attack the gens first).

[Rahul Roy]

Anjian, on 21 June 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

Actually, destruction of ogens by light rushes is more of a strategy than tactics.

Calling light rushes a tactic is kind of a stretch.

[Mystere]

Rahul Roy, on 21 June 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

Calling light rushes a tactic is kind of a stretch.

Please explain.

[Sazabi Steppenwulfe]

Mystere, on 20 June 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

It's all being done in the name of ... drum roll please ...

eSports

<and to cater to all the Cod and "Rock 'em, Sock 'em" robot types>

be real cool if they'd let us play Battletech instead...

at this point i think a "Planet Side 2" style map (maybe 5-6 of them) would be a better alternative to what we're enduring now. this eSport-drag race-death match stuff is already getting old lol

Edited by Steppenwulf, 23 June 2015 - 06:43 PM.

[YCSLiesmith]

Sthtopokeon, on 21 June 2015 - 06:59 AM, said:

Of course not and that is not what I meant. You are just writing as if you are having a year long history of MWO which seems odd given the age of your account. But nevermind, maybe it's just my age that lets me think of 7 weeks as a ridiculously short period of time.

However, liking your own post does devaluate its content. Ah okay, he changed that.

If you don't like your own posts you should reconsider making them. His points are all solid and your weird forum etiquette and regdate callout doesn't change any of that.

[YCSLiesmith]

Kin3ticX, on 21 June 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

Suicide rushing the objective is abuse the objective based mode. Please do quote again.

what? how in the world is attempting to win the game by completing your objectives abuse? The fact that you can't handle a light rush AS A CLANNER is pretty absurd. everyone half-decent has had a skillcrow in their deck for months, ready to kill any light rushes. My unit regularly set up a wall of bodies on omega when we felt a firestarter rush or three were incoming. It's childishly easy to counter a light rush if you know it's going to happen. by March, the only people who still got beat by them were pugs and mariks.

Mystere, on 21 June 2015 - 10:48 PM, said:

Please explain.

he feels they are easy to explain to pugs and execute on the fly, and rely on mechs that even new players can afford to kit out, and are therefore unworthy.

Edited by YCSLiesmith, 25 June 2015 - 05:49 PM.