48 replies to this topic

[Mardek]

what if the IS get the splash damage like the clan one (10+ 2.5+2.5), and the CERPPC does 15 PPD?

thoughts?

Edited by Mardek, 27 June 2015 - 02:41 PM.

[Scratx]

Mardek, on 27 June 2015 - 02:24 PM, said:

what if the IS get the splash damage like the clan one, and the CERPPC does 15 PPD?

thoughts?

... NO.


I have no problem with the IS ERPPC getting splash, but oh gods you want cERPPC to be an energy gauss at less than half the weight?

[Mcgral18]

It would be a good quirk for 8/8 Omnipods on some mechs, but I'd say no to everything.

Adder (with arm PPCs), Fridge (can't boat more than 1 without stripping half the mech) and Summoner (3 hardpoints, one of each)

Wholesale 15 PP FLD ERPPCs? No

[Mardek]

Scratx, on 27 June 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

... NO.


I have no problem with the IS ERPPC getting splash, but oh gods you want cERPPC to be an energy gauss at less than half the weight?

Mcgral18, on 27 June 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

It would be a good quirk for 8/8 Omnipods on some mechs, but I'd say no to everything.

Adder (with arm PPCs), Fridge (can't boat more than 1 without stripping half the mech) and Summoner (3 hardpoints, one of each)

Wholesale 15 PP FLD ERPPCs? No

you seems to forgot that they are hot as hell and the projectile speed its still lame, and with this change ISerppc will do 15dmg tho splashed

Edited by Mardek, 27 June 2015 - 02:34 PM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

I might be ok with ER PPC's dealing 12 damage.

That would put it on par with LPL's and CLPL's which deal 11 and 13 damage respectively while generating far less heat.

15 is too much.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 27 June 2015 - 02:48 PM.

[Scratx]

Mardek, on 27 June 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

you seems to forgot that they are hot as hell and the projectile speed its still lame, and with this change ISerppc will do 15dmg tho splashed

Splash is nowhere near as powerful as applying all the damage in one section, that's the entire point why the cERPPC was given splash. To nerf it. Projectile speed isn't that big a problem when you're adding a targeting computer to boost it, either.

As for being hot, yeah, it is. Nothing spamming DHS can't fix, though. My Warhawk Prime doesn't seem to have problems killing, and recently I refitted a Stormcrow with 2 ERPPCs and 4 ERMLs... almost 1000 damage and 6 kills in a match.

...

You want to buff it? Seriously? It's already pretty good if you don't have an itchy trigger finger, you know. Making it 15 PPFLD is too much.

[Hit the Deck]

Actually Adder with dual ERPPC performs pretty decently (once I said in my thread that this build is weak - I retract that statement). ERPPC projectile speed is actually good enough for hitting big robots up to 600-700m. Now, if it could do 30 PPFLD then I guess it would be a pocket sniper - too good for the Clanners.

It's the PPC which needs speed buff, not the ER.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 27 June 2015 - 02:54 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

My Summoner Prime is running 2xERPPCs, and a few DHS. It does a bang up impression of it's IS name (Thor), already. Make my ERPPCs even stronger and I won't be worried about whatever comes my way.

Telling us that it will make IS ERPPCs even stronger is not actually a good thing. There's already too much PP FLD damage going on around here. We don't need more of it.

EDIT: My KFX-S would also love this. It's running 2 ERPPCs as well. On HPG it gets pretty hilarious.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 27 June 2015 - 02:52 PM.

[Aresye]

I'd rather them get their speeds buffed to be quite honest.

Both IS and Clan.

[Mardek]

Scratx, on 27 June 2015 - 02:48 PM, said:

Splash is nowhere near as powerful as applying all the damage in one section, that's the entire point why the cERPPC was given splash. To nerf it. Projectile speed isn't that big a problem when you're adding a targeting computer to boost it, either.

As for being hot, yeah, it is. Nothing spamming DHS can't fix, though. My Warhawk Prime doesn't seem to have problems killing, and recently I refitted a Stormcrow with 2 ERPPCs and 4 ERMLs... almost 1000 damage and 6 kills in a match.

...

You want to buff it? Seriously? It's already pretty good if you don't have an itchy trigger finger, you know. Making it 15 PPFLD is too much.

TC gives it a negligible buff and the only mechs i see with erppc are the quirked ones

[Bishop Steiner]

Scratx, on 27 June 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

... NO.


I have no problem with the IS ERPPC getting splash, but oh gods you want cERPPC to be an energy gauss at less than half the weight?

while I don't think it's the way to go, between their glacial projectile speed (half that of a Gauss, not to mention about 2/3 the range)) and oh...15x the heat of a Gauss? Not exactly gonna change things overnight. Very few mechs can maintain any impressive volume of fire with just 2 ERPPC solo, let alone with secondary weapons.

But I'd much rather just get 1500 m/s projectile speed on them.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 27 June 2015 - 03:09 PM.

[Scratx]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 June 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

while I don't think it's the way to go, between their glacial projectile speed (half that of a Gauss, not to mention about 2/3 the range)) and oh...15x the heat of a Gauss? Not exactly gonna change things overnight. Very few mechs can maintain any impressive volume of fire with just 2 ERPPC solo, let alone with secondary weapons.

But I'd much rather just get 1500 m/s projectile speed on them.

Gauss doesn't outrange cERPPC by much, actually. 660m range with x3 range vs 810m vs x2 range. Gauss projectile speed does make it rather easy to hit, though.

OTOH, ERPPC doesn't have charge-up cycle so you can snap-shot with it and the tonnage savings (both lighter guns and no ammo) can be used on heat sinks to compensate. Yeah, it's not exactly an energy gauss at 15 PPFLD. In some ways it's better, in others worse.

Overall, it's too much of a buff to a weapon that already isn't bad.

Speaking of buffs... yeah, projectile speed buff would actually let the ERPPC use its range significantly better. I'd like that. But I'm not going to argue either way there. I'm not convinced ERPPCs of any sort need much of a buff. (I'd argue that if any do, IS ERPPCs do)

[Hit the Deck]

Scratx, on 27 June 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

Gauss doesn't outrange cERPPC by much, actually. 660m range with x3 range vs 810m vs x2 range. Gauss projectile speed does make it rather easy to hit, though.

Gauss does perform better at all ranges compared to ERPPC (black: Gauss, grey: (c)ERPPC):



If cERPPC damage was 15 pinpoint, then their damage would be equal at around 1000m.

[Nightshade24]

I think removing the splash of the Clan gauss is kinda needed. ATM the only advantage it has over the clan large pulse laser is that it has the ability to disrupt enemy ecm for 4 seconds and 200 meters extra range.

The clan large pulse has more damage, faster fire rate, and is much colder then the er ppc.

perhaps making it do 13 damage pinpoint with 1,1, damage splash could work... but most of the ER PPC specific mechs are kinda suffering atm for the clans. Especially compared to IS counterparts...

I mean when we go later down the road when Heavy PPC's are added, what will happen then? IS sacrafices a lot for a weapon with the identical damage as the normal PPC but with splash just to mimic the clan one but with less range?

Sounds stupid to me..

The IS still have the heat effeciency aspect around for there PPC / ER PPC...


ER PPC, LBX's, AC's, (and the typical flamer) are all weapons in the clans that are rather obsolete to other weapons.

[Soy]

The reason why PPCs are a skill / finesse wep at the moment is cuz the speed is not super fast. Raising it will just make plebs crutch it again, really.

Gauss is supreme cuz if you can actually fire the shot, the hit is basically a guarantee. No finesse, all efficiency (cep that bit about ammo).

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

I think to balance ER PPC's, you would compare them with other energy weapons weighing near to 7 tons.

A large pulse laser weighs 7 tons and deals 11 damage.
A clan large pulse laser weighs 6 tons and deals 13 damage.

Both clan and inner sphere ER PPC's weigh 6-7 tons respectively and deal 10 damage.

-ER PPC's carry a significant heat malus where they generate 50% to 200% more heat than CLPL's/LPL's.
-They have a slower cooldown cycle and lower DPS.
-ER PPC's are more difficult to use successfully than LPL's.

The main advantages ER PPC's have over LPL's is longer range and better pinpoint damage on successful hits.

Based on the above, ER PPC's might use a small damage boost up to 11 or 12.

If ony because there is no mech in the game that can fire ER PPC's a consecutive number of times without overheating.

[Soy]

What we really need, is Light PPC.

That travels like, 1050-1200 m/s.

And does 4-6 damage.

With like, 8-10 heat.

And weighs 2-4 tons.

gg

[FupDup]

Soy, on 27 June 2015 - 04:41 PM, said:

What we really need, is Light PPC.

That travels like, 1050-1200 m/s.

And does 4-6 damage.

With like, 8-10 heat.

And weighs 2-4 tons.

gg

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Light_PPC



3 tons
2 slots
540m optimal range
90m min range
5 damage
5 heat
Final Destination

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Meh. Light PPC's.

PPC capacitors are where its at.

[Lord Perversor]

Hit the Deck, on 27 June 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

Actually Adder with dual ERPPC performs pretty decently (once I said in my thread that this build is weak - I retract that statement). ERPPC projectile speed is actually good enough for hitting big robots up to 600-700m. Now, if it could do 30 PPFLD then I guess it would be a pocket sniper - too good for the Clanners.

It's the PPC which needs speed buff, not the ER.

I always tought some quirk on specific variants clan CT that reduce the spread damage may be worthwhile to try.

Adder Prime and Warhawk Prime CT with a 100% reduction in dmg spread so they can put 15 dmg shoots with PPc may be a different way to balance quirks.