138 replies to this topic

[Hades Trooper]

FupDup, on 24 June 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

If I had to guess, Russ was trying to promote community events such as player-made tournaments (i.e. Monday Night Mechwarrior) and what have you in order to generate buzz and attention for the game.

Not that they're really succeeding at it, though...

I would hope thats the case but call me the devils advocate but i don't think that was what Russ was intending by an e-sport mentality.

I think he wants to drive the power gaming meta play and the power curve to promote sale rather than deliver a product that increases it's player base through a good quality product.

Call me cynical but i pump 15k into wizkids version of Mechwarrior clicks, and it was very clear to me by the 3 expansion that power creep was rampant and by the 5 expansion the power was so blantant the game died as people wheren't willing to fork over such amounts of money to have it redundant 9 months later.

An to a certain extent quirks are PGI's way of saying hey don't be made we made your old shiny good again, as a reaction to people concerns about unbalance which is what power creep causes to promote sales of newer items.

[stjobe]

Hades Trooper, on 24 June 2015 - 08:43 AM, said:

Does any significant portion of the community even give a rats arse about [eSport]?

Yes, a very significant portion: Russ and Paul.

The rest of us, not so much.

And they've had this pipe-dream of MWO becoming the next big eSport game since closed beta; it was as stupid and unrealistic then as it is now. MWO is never ever going to be an eSport game - unless PGI sells the game to a competent developer.

[Hades Trooper]

Hyper99, on 24 June 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

I see many blowing off e-sport mentality here and yet the Competitve nature of CW is very closely aligned to E-sport. It's just group based. Solaris is about as close and spot on as e-sport you can get. I'm not super Competitve and could give a rats ass about it, but fact is this game is prime for real e-sport league type stuff. It's up to PGI to make the game playable as an E-sport. As it stand RiGHT NOW it's about as far from it as you can get (Edit: On an individual player type level).

I concur, E-sport is something that in time could be a viable option but to pursue it now is putting the cart in front of the horse and asking it to push instead of pull.

Timing is a factor and right now is not the time to be starting to pursue E-sports in MWO until weapon balance, quirk overhaul ( Russ has said he wants to do away with quirks ) and review of maps, development of CW that was suppose to have been done within 6 months of going to release and where now years later still waiting.

The CW we have now is a poor mans vision of the picture that was painted to us founders on how things would plan out. It hollow and has little meaning other than having the ability to drop in 4 mechs in the 1 game.

Sir Wulfrick, on 24 June 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

I'd love to see MWO have a laser-like focus on being an e-sport... For Solaris matches. They could even get the voice actor back who did the commentary from the Mechwarrior 4 Mercs Solaris games. Great stuff.

The very, very large problem I have with this is that the Solaris matches and that entire game mode should be a side show to the real game. A battletech game should reflect the Battletech universe: huge-scale strategic military campaigns with missions, objectives, co-operative game play, logisitcs, macro and micro strategy, objectives, all sorts of different missions on different planets throughout the inner sphere and beyond. Did I mention objectives?

I want the core game play of MWO to be a war. A war in which our actions actually matter, if even on a small scale for an individual player. A war in which we all take part in our house armies, merc units or as clan warriors.

Solaris matches would be a great addition to the game and could feature all sorts of e-sport type tournaments. I do not however want this to become the sole focus of the game. If that happens, I and I suspect many other hard-core battletech fans would be done here.

Much better put than a poor putz like me could word.

+1 mate.

[DjPush]

Bravo! Huzzah to it all. What the hell are you guys whining about anyway?

PGI is not only improving the game, they are also adding new content every 2 weeks. Revamped River City, 2 new hero mechs, new clan mechs, removing that god aweful function of slowing down after being legged, new servers for the EU and a new spectator function.

All I see is a ton of hard work and improvements.

THANK YOU PGI!

[Mystere]

Hyper99, on 24 June 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

I see many blowing off e-sport mentality here and yet the Competitve nature of CW is very closely aligned to E-sport. It's just group based. Solaris is about as close and spot on as e-sport you can get. I'm not super Competitve and could give a rats ass about it, but fact is this game is prime for real e-sport league type stuff. It's up to PGI to make the game playable as an E-sport. As it stand RiGHT NOW it's about as far from it as you can get (Edit: On an individual player type level).

Designing a game mode for "war" is not necessarily the same as designing it for "sport".

And before I forget, here's my obligatory:

**** eSports!

Edited by Mystere, 24 June 2015 - 09:57 AM.

[Kira Onime]

Kristov Kerensky, on 24 June 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

LoL and CS are both e-sport big games, both have as much content as MWO when it comes to e-sports, both make a lot of money off e-sports, as do some of the top players in those games who get sponsers and so on.

But here's the thing. LoL and CS:GO have the population to keep an e-sports scene alive and well.
LoL has probably more players in Bronze than the entire MWO population.

[Hades Trooper]

Kristov Kerensky, on 24 June 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

I see we have many people who know nothing about e-sports.

LoL and CS are both e-sport big games, both have as much content as MWO when it comes to e-sports, both make a lot of money off e-sports, as do some of the top players in those games who get sponsers and so on.

Coca Cola is looking at getting into e-sport sponsership, as is Pepsi and other big name product makers because it's actually becoming a rather huge market.

And MWO being e-sport friendly and directed isn't new, it's been a stated goal since day 1, remember?

An CW was meant to have a lot more to it than what we been delivered also.

I think you have to understand, people aren't apposed to an E-sport mentality, when and if the game gets to that kinda standard. with weapon issues, hit box reg and all sorts of other problems u really think now is the time to start pushing towards E-sports?

with such a low player base, you do that now and u drive off half the battletech fans and this game dies and we loss out on a mechwarrior experience that was promised and u don't get your E-sport.

I'm sure many players, are maybe like myself that when the game is in a state where it's balanced, CW is running smoothly with a meaning reason to contribute and engage then bring it on, more power to PGI but until then, u got plenty to do stop putting more on your plate when u can't finish what u already have.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

This game is a PvP arena shooter, there is no other real direction for a game to take other than e-Sports if they want to stay up and running unless they want to shift towards PvE content. Any sort of player driven narrative type game has generally failed (maybe Planetside 2?) so people who see CW as the key of this game are misguided imo.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 24 June 2015 - 10:05 AM.

[DaZur]

E-sport is "low-hanging-fruit"...

Easy to implement via Solaris and requires little development to support (In context).

The MW:O we were pitched 3 years ago is what most BT fans came here for... Something with some teeth, role-playing and consequences and reward for ones actions in a constantly evolving universe.

There's room for both in this room but they both require polar levels of development and support.

[Hades Trooper]

DjPush, on 24 June 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

Bravo! Huzzah to it all. What the hell are you guys whining about anyway?

PGI is not only improving the game, they are also adding new content every 2 weeks. Revamped River City, 2 new hero mechs, new clan mechs, removing that god aweful function of slowing down after being legged, new servers for the EU and a new spectator function.

All I see is a ton of hard work and improvements.

THANK YOU PGI!

Revamping a map thats meant for 8 man for 12 and how long has 12 vs 12 been in?

More shinies to buy when hit reg and hit boxes still need to be fixed. yeah put out more product to buy than fix whats already been sold, cause you know the MWO player base are chumps and they eat up anything thats put them in a shiny wrapper.

the slow function? not a bad idea but surely there are better things to work on atm than something else, idk, say firestarter hit boxes and EXE CT that on release, ooops once again we didn't do any in house testing, we gotta fix this as look how people have reacted, shitte they might ask for refunds drop everything, fix this issue, keep the cash from hemoragging.

all i see is work being done on projects that aren't the player base interests and what PGI thinks will keep draining cash form people pockets.

After Founder packs, full wave 1 and 2 packs, and everything in between and MC sales and GXP sales, i've had to start being realistic and ask myself, Am I ever going to get what was promised that lured me in the 1st place? a solid core CW system that had meaning and results that mattered? planets that meant something to control than just your name on them, a function for merc companies than than juts a gather place for friends to hang out?

sorry if asking for a company to actually deliver on there promises after they blamed there past partner company for being at fault, is that too much to ask than expecting them to pick up another hat to wear when considering they have so many to wear now?


Now one is saying don't do it, I thin the feeling from many is, do what u have already on your plate, show us u can deliver and we the PAYING customers will follow you down the road to E-sports and shout out to allow, have a look at this, it awesome!

[cSand]

IMO esports as a whole is a giant frigging joke


It blows me away that we live in a day and age where people who play video games can be celebrated (and paid) like some kinda athlete, lol

that said...

w/e. To each their own I guess.


And, if it makes this game better than that's fine. Let the basement dwellers have their moment in the spotlight, lol

Edited by cSand, 24 June 2015 - 10:15 AM.

[Hades Trooper]

WM Quicksilver, on 24 June 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

This game is a PvP arena shooter, there is no other real direction for a game to take other than e-Sports if they want to stay up and running unless they want to shift towards PvE content. Any sort of player driven narrative type game has generally failed (maybe Planetside 2?) so people who see CW as the key of this game are misguided imo.

and i think e-sports needs a foundation of solid coding, hit reg and balance to be taken serious.

so until they can fix those things, continue on whats made u the money already, which is new maps and content and fleshing out CW.

to pursue e-sports now and thumb the rest of us will create a player exodus bigger than the Jews leaving Egypt in the bible.

Edited by Hades Trooper, 24 June 2015 - 10:15 AM.

[ThirtyOughtSix]

Mystere, on 24 June 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

Designing a game mode for "war" is not necessarily the same as designing it for "sport".

And before I forget, here's my obligatory:

**** eSports!

It's not my place to say it is or will be one way not the other so I understand why you want to **** esports. But, keeping MWO a robot stompy play a round get out play a round and get out will keep it's life under 5 years. E-sporting it might extend it longer. MWO will survive only so long on the "council of old MW lovers". Embrace change is my mantra here, stagnation is death.

[Shikata nai]

cSand, on 24 June 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

IMO esports as a whole is agiant frigging joke


It blows me away that we live in a day and age where people who play video games can be celebrated like some kinda athlete, lol

that said...

w/e

Well tbh why should it be celebrated if someone is making his money by running after some kind of ball?
Doesn't matter if someone is practicing playing with a ball or practicing a computergame as long as there is a community watching it.

MWO unfortunately has not got the necassary tools and not the necassary communitysize to get big in esport. However i appreciate that PGI enables us to watch matches because this will help the competitive scene which is indeed part of MWO even if some of you lore-fanatics do not want to see it.

[Midax]

Hades Trooper, on 24 June 2015 - 09:40 AM, said:

3xnihilo is correct, even in australia with my 250 ping against certain mechs u still have to lead the target even with lasers which gets quite frankly very annoying.

so unless he's aiming for a North and South America to partake in this e-sport mentality then EU and Asia Servers would be a higher on the of things to spend time on and even in the roadmap he's already stated the Asia server is likely to behind the EU one already.

Now if u want to be truly e-sport minded, how many yanks are gonna be willing to fight vs others from around the world when the server would be biased towards the EU and Asia player base?

There not going to be willing to give up there precious sub 100 ping and play like the rest of the world has been. So once again these e-sport mentality would end up being regional. As isn't the servers going to be shifted as prime time playing hours change so North America players would end up with 250+ pings say during prime time Asian hours?

the MWO player base numbers is so small that it can't be taken as a serious e-sport and then to further divide that into world regions would be even more of a laughing stock.

Many E-sports are regional and the top teams in each region then physically go to a tournament and play on a lan.

Maybe having regional servers will help boost population? I know I wouldn't bother playing MWO if I had a 250 ping, the game isn't good enough for me to put up with that to play. I'm sure there are plenty of people that tried MWO and had issues because of the high ping and left.

I completely agree that MWO doesn't have the population to be an E-sport. How many of the popular E-Sport games started with the goal of being a top E-Sport? I'm pretty sure they started off working at being a fun game with an eye to their target audience and then worked on the tools to be a good e-sport later. PGI seems to be operating under the misconception that the Battletech fans that the MechWarrior franchise draws is willing to play a e-sport friendly game. If their goal is a E-sport game then they are wasting money on the MW license.

[Kristov Kerensky]

KiraOnime, on 24 June 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

But here's the thing. LoL and CS:GO have the population to keep an e-sports scene alive and well.
LoL has probably more players in Bronze than the entire MWO population.

And how did they get those populations? CS didn't start off being what it is now, it was a niche game that was full of hack users, and even at that time it was a big e-sports game. The newest CS is even bigger with a huge e-sports draw, and it's STILL full of hack users, even top players have been busted for using them. Doesn't seem to hurt it any.

LoL, didn't start off being the huge game it is now, but it's now THE 800 pound gorilla of e-sports worldwide, only StarCraft beats it and that's only in the Orient, which is the heart of e-sports really. StarCraft top players are superstars, so are top LoL players in the Oriental markets. But NONE of the big e-sports started that way, and StarCraft wasn't even meant to BE an e-sport, look at it now....

Hades Trooper, on 24 June 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

An CW was meant to have a lot more to it than what we been delivered also.

I think you have to understand, people aren't apposed to an E-sport mentality, when and if the game gets to that kinda standard. with weapon issues, hit box reg and all sorts of other problems u really think now is the time to start pushing towards E-sports?

with such a low player base, you do that now and u drive off half the battletech fans and this game dies and we loss out on a mechwarrior experience that was promised and u don't get your E-sport.

I'm sure many players, are maybe like myself that when the game is in a state where it's balanced, CW is running smoothly with a meaning reason to contribute and engage then bring it on, more power to PGI but until then, u got plenty to do stop putting more on your plate when u can't finish what u already have.

CW was meant to be THE meat and potatoes of MWO, that's where we were all supposed to be playing. And someday it might actually be that, but it's not there right now. It's not even finished yet, I call it alpha still, since it's SO bare bones and has nothing to offer but..uhm...longer que times and less rewards per time frame? Maybe, someday, it'll be the big BTech based planetary conquest system we hope it will be, logistics and all that coming into play, and controlling a planet MEANING something ingame. It's not that now and I don't know when, or IF, it ever will be.

E-sport games are usually games that people simply like to play online that are good spectator games, people want to watch them being played, THAT'S what makes them e-sports, and that's what makes them big. LoL, CS, StarCraft, people WANT to watch them being played, they don't PLAY them, they enjoy watching them being played. MWO can do that as well, I've had plenty of friends who wanted to watch me play MWO or previous MW titles, but they did NOT want to play it themselves, too complicated/hard/whatever, but they enjoyed watching it. It has a very good draw due to the visual look of the game, not just MWO specifically, but the entire BattleTech giant walking tank thing. And that's the first hook for a good e-sport, it has to be something people want to watch.

Look at the top e-sport games, all visually attractive to watch being played, even CS is that way. MWO has that already, and they can improve it so that it's really an incredibly visually attractive game to watch, but that means dumping the low end system users....

[Mystere]

Hyper99, on 24 June 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

It's not my place to say it is or will be one way not the other so I understand why you want to **** esports. But, keeping MWO a robot stompy play a round get out play a round and get out will keep it's life under 5 years. E-sporting it might extend it longer. MWO will survive only so long on the "council of old MW lovers". Embrace change is my mantra here, stagnation is death.

I have nothing against a Solaris 7 mode. But, that should be kept at a lower priority until what the Founders were sold on have been fully delivered (and no, this barely even a shell of a game mode called "Community Warfare" is not it).

[cSand]

Lachesis Muta, on 24 June 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

Well tbh why should it be celebrated if someone is making his money by running after some kind of ball?
Doesn't matter if someone is practicing playing with a ball or practicing a computergame as long as there is a community watching it.

And this is the problem, that there is a generation that truly believes that video games are on par with any other competetive activity

That spending hours and hours and days and days practicing video games is in any way something that should be celebrated or encouraged (even though many of us do it.... it is not something to be proud of frankly)

If people spend time running after a ball, or shooting hoops, or swimming, or just about any other competetive thing, they are not only competing, they are getting in shape, learning more social and leadership skills.. man, I can't even explain this to you cause I don't have time or the desire for a huge tirade.

That said, I think MMA is a load of sh*t too, just for completely different reasons.



competetive gaming, lol. this is where millions of years of human evolution has got us. "pro" video gamers and a generation of kids who don't even waste their time playing games, just watching them. I am sad for the future.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mystere, on 24 June 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

I have nothing against a Solaris 7 mode. But, that should be kept at a lower priority until what the Founders were sold on have been fully delivered (and no, this barely even a shell of a game mode called "Community Warfare" is not it).

You'll be waiting forever, unless they go the route of EVE which would probably take them years even if they focused all their resources on it. That's probably the only successful game with a truly player driven universe (complete with trolling).

[ThirtyOughtSix]

cSand, on 24 June 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

IMO esports as a whole is a giant frigging joke


It blows me away that we live in a day and age where people who play video games can be celebrated (and paid) like some kinda athlete, lol

that said...

w/e. To each their own I guess.


And, if it makes this game better than that's fine. Let the basement dwellers have their moment in the spotlight, lol

I'll bite. Calling a video game in any fashion a sport is hilarious - agreed. However, as a "specialist" anyone has a right to try to compete. If I have enough experience and knowledge on a particular subject that means I am in high demand. Sayin that I shouldn't be awared for my efforts is counter-intuitive. Like anything else in a free market if I like watching a player because he's damn good at MWO, and want to see that player to learn he will get more advertising ability. There's nothin wrong with Mt. Dew realizing video games are a MASSIVE market and advertising to that market, possibly even sponsoring the player. More power to them.