37 replies to this topic

[Malcolm Vordermark]

There is no right time to introduce the nerf. Do it after a few month and people complain that it got nerfed when it came out for cbills. Wait several months after cbill release and endure months of people crying OP. Nerf it before it is released to those that bought the pack and its bait and switch.

[TheArisen]

I don't recall PGI ever promising that any mech would never be balanced. The TW and SC are still T1, it's not like they were obliterated by the nerfbat. This is a PvP game, that means there needs to be a fair amount of balance.

[Revis Volek]

Tombstoner, on 25 June 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

What you described reminds me of the clan invasion.... as soon as the first clan mechs where available for in-game cash the great nerfing began. i refused to be a victim during such a blatant pay to win scam.

You are wrong...

The only thing that was NERFED was the S pods on the TBR and really they just locked jj's in so up until recently there were no nerfs. Please try again troll....

Also to prove this go look at the quirks for clan mechs....it has been a pretty long time since wave 1 came out and the TBR and SCR JUST GOT NERFED.

You are full of S#*t sir....sorry but you dont know what you are talking about and its clear you are a TT purist who is pushing his NO CLANS agenda into this game as well.

GTFO of here, if its so bad stop playing dude. I dont see anyone twisting your arm to shoot mechs.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Water Bear, on 25 June 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

Gotta push those mech sales. Ever wonder how mech sales were before the Clan invasion? Maybe the Invasion was aimed at our wallets.

All content aims for your wallet lol.

People just seem to have some weird twisted expectation of what they are buying. They are assuming it is going to be superior to everything that was out before it just because they paid money for it.

If it isn't as good as they thought, they were deceived. If it was better when initially launched, but is balanced down, they were deceived.

Even PGI said clan tech was not going to be better than IS, but different to try and maintain balance. Still, people bought it for an edge over everyone else and then belly ached when the balancing passes hit.

Look. The best thing to do is to treat mechs like... Hats. Ok. You buy a mech because it looks cool or you have nostalgic memories of playing it in TT or past MW titles. Don't have any expectations about performance other than it will be middle of the road. I think many people would be a lot happier that way.

[Tombstoner]

DarthRevis, on 25 June 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

You are wrong...

The only thing that was NERFED was the S pods on the TBR and really they just locked jj's in so up until recently there were no nerfs. Please try again troll....

Also to prove this go look at the quirks for clan mechs....it has been a pretty long time since wave 1 came out and the TBR and SCR JUST GOT NERFED.

You are full of S#*t sir....sorry but you dont know what you are talking about and its clear you are a TT purist who is pushing his NO CLANS agenda into this game as well.

GTFO of here, if its so bad stop playing dude. I dont see anyone twisting your arm to shoot mechs.

So clan mechs function the same today as on the first day of early access. No changes at all....

http://ghost-bear-co...hp?topic=3027.0

"Hello everyone,

I was asked to write this for someone, and as I wrote it I thought that it was very good information for everyone to read. I hope it will also make my case for my argument against Clan mech packs vs. IS mech packs.

Here are few points. First, a timeline of Clan alterations after the Invasion pack was released.

July 2-14 (Only 2 weeks after Clan release)
Weapons tuning:

Clan LRM launchers heat scales set to 3.1 up from 2.8
Clan LB2 spread set to 0.45, down from 1.3
Clan LB5 spread to 0.85, down from 1.3
Clan LB2, AC2, UAC2 and IS AC2 cooldown set to 0.72 down from 0.8
Clan ER Small Laser damage reduced from 5.0 to 4.0
Clan ER Small Laser range increased from 180m/360m to 200m/400m
Clan Small Pulse Laser damage increased from 3.4 to 4.4
Clan Medium Pulse Laser damage increase from 7.0 to 7.4
Clan Medium Pulse Laser heat increased from 5.0 to 5.5
Clan Medium Pulse Laser duration reduced from 1.1 to 0.9
Clan SRM/2 and SRM/6 impulse value reduced from 0.192 to 0.11

Aug 26-14
Several 'Mechs were previously under-valued for the load-out provided, the following prices have shifted:
NVA-S is now 3750 MC
SMN-B is now 5630 MC
SMN-D is now 5560 MC

Sept 5-14
Weapon Balance

IS ER Large Laser heat down from 8.5 to 8.0
IS ER Large Laser duration increased from 1.0 to 1.5

Clan ER Large Laser damage down from 11.25 to 11.0
Clan ER Large Laser heat penalty down from 12.0 to 4.0
Clan ER Large Laser long range (max damage) reduced from 890m to 740m
Clan ER Large Laser max range (falloff to zero damage) reduced from 1780m to 1480m
Clan ER Large Laser duration down from 2.0s to 1.6s

Clan ER Medium Laser base heat increased from 5.0 to 6.0
Clan ER Medium Laser long range (max damage) reduced from 450m to 400m
Clan ER Medium Laser max range (falloff to zero damage) reduced from 900m to 800m
Clan ER Medium Laser duration down from 1.3s to 1.25s

Clan ER Small Laser base heat increased from 2.0 to 3.0
Clan ER Small Laser long range (max damage) reduced from 200m to 150m
Clan ER Small Laser max range (falloff to zero damage) reduced from 400m to 300m

Clan Large Pulse Laser damage down from 11.8 to 11.6
Clan Large Pulse Laser heat penalty increased from 2.8 to 4.0
Clan Large Pulse Laser base heat increased from 8.0 to 9.0
Clan Large Pulse Laser long range (max damage) reduced from 600m to 525m
Clan Large Pulse Laser max range (falloff to zero damage) reduced from 1200m to 1050m
Clan Large Pulse Laser duration down from 1.3s to 1.2s

Clan Medium Pulse Laser base heat increased from 5.5 to 6.0
Clan Medium Pulse Laser long range (max damage) reduced from 400m to 330m
Clan Medium Pulse Laser max range (falloff to zero damage) reduced from 800m to 660m
Clan Medium Pulse Laser duration down from 0.9s to 0.85s

Clan Small Pulse Laser base heat increased from 2.4 to 3.4
Clan Small Pulse Laser long range (max damage) reduced from 180m to 150m
Clan Small Pulse Laser max range (falloff to zero damage) reduced from 360m to 300m

Clan LRM-5 cooldown increased from 3.25s to 3.5s
Clan LRM-10 cooldown increased from 3.75s to 4.0s
Clan LRM-15 cooldown increased from 4.25s to 4.5s
Clan LRM-20 cooldown increased from 4.75s to 5.0s
Clan Streak SRM-4 cooldown decreased from 5.25s to 5.0s
Clan Streak SRM-6 cooldown decreased from 7.0s to 6.0s

Oct 7-14
Gameplay
New heat penalties when a 'Mech equipped with a Clan XL engine loses a side torso.
The 'Mech will lose 20% of the heat sinks in the engine.
This percentage is calculated as the total of the heat sinks integral to the engine as well as any equipped in its heat sink slots.
The lost heat sinks are removed from those integral to the engine.


Overall Clan Observations:
Clan Weapon Values:
[O = Original Values on Release / C = Current Values to Date]

• CLRM (All) Heat Scale: O= 2.8 C=3.1
  
• CERSML Damage: O=5 C=4
  
• CERSML Range O=180/360m C=150/300m
  
• CERSML Heat O=2 C=3
  
• CERSMPL Heat O=2.4 C= 3.4
  
• CERSMPL Range: O=180/360m C=150m/300m
  
• CERMPL Heat: O=5 C=6
  
• CERMPL Range: O= 400/800m C=330/660m
  
• CERLL Duration O=1.25 C=1.6
  
• CERLL Damage O=11.25 C=11
  
• CERLL Range O=890m/1780m C=740m/1480m
  
• CERLPL Damage O=11.8 C=11.6
  
• CERLPL Heat Penalty O=2.8 C=4
  
• CERLPL Heat O=8 C=9
  
• CERLPL Range O=600/1200m C=525/1050m
  
• CERML Heat O=5 C=6
  
• CERML Range: O=450/900m C=400/800m
  
• CLRM5 Cooldown O=3.25 C=3.5
  
• CLRM10 Cooldown O=3.75 C=4
  
• CLRM15 Cooldown O=4.25 C=4.5
  
• CLRM20 Cooldown O=4.75 C=5

Observations: As you can see, almost every clan weapon has been nerfed, some of them very significantly since Clan's were released. Almost every weapon advantage originally given to Clans have been tken away completely, or significantly reduced to include proportionate negative values to correlate to the positive values over Is weapons."

I could be wrong.... all im doing is cut and pasting from the internet. But i clearly remember a nerfing the day the first clan mechs became avalable for in game cash

[Sjorpha]

You forgot the subsequent buffing of pulse laser damage ans small laser damage, but otherwise yeah clan weapons were nerfed as compared to release. Thankfully so, clan tech is still superior to IS tech overall.

The fact that Timber wolf and stormcrow is still the uncontested best heavy and medium mechs in the game even after all those changes should say something about how needed these nerfs was.

You can make conspiracy theories about the timing all day long, but those who bought wave 1 to get the best competitive mechs in the game got that and still has that. The triad is still on top, so I find it very hard to see how anyone was been fooled of anything. Is having the top three mechs in the game not enough for you? You need them to be even better than they are? Ridiculous.

[DAYLEET]

DaZur, on 24 June 2015 - 09:51 PM, said:

Hmm...

Color me silly but I'm beginning to see a trend.

low level trolling, newbies if you will.

[Monkey Lover]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 June 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

Players need to stop chasing the buffs. Find a Mech you like then play the crap out of it till buffed or nerfed you don't even notice.

. Not always op hunting. I bought a ilya to 3x gauss snipe. This was no way op butnwas fun. They nerfed this. I almost never use my ilya now. I bought the Summoner(cash) over the timber because of the jj and I hoped it played more like a hawk. They nerfed the jj and Summoner is one of the worst clan mechs now.

My emeber machine guns got nerfed and didn't get any quirks. Now I use the firestarter s,a

And so on.

[Templar Dane]

DarthRevis, on 25 June 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

You are wrong...

The only thing that was NERFED was the S pods on the TBR and really they just locked jj's in so up until recently there were no nerfs. Please try again troll....

Also to prove this go look at the quirks for clan mechs....it has been a pretty long time since wave 1 came out and the TBR and SCR JUST GOT NERFED.

You are full of S#*t sir....sorry but you dont know what you are talking about and its clear you are a TT purist who is pushing his NO CLANS agenda into this game as well.

GTFO of here, if its so bad stop playing dude. I dont see anyone twisting your arm to shoot mechs.

There have been at least two waves of nerfs to all/most clan lasers.

Range reduction, heat increase, duration increase, damage reduction, ERSL + ERSPL ghost heat. While some of them have had some tweaks to try to bring them up a bit, they're still a far cry from where they were at release.

And the SCR/TBR nerfs were people bitching about how hard they were to take down. I don't get it. They twist pretty fast, but they never seemed particularly tough to me. You know, like a thunderbolt/stalker with at least half a brain.

[Water Bear]

MeiSooHaityu, on 25 June 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

All content aims for your wallet lol.

People just seem to have some weird twisted expectation of what they are buying. They are assuming it is going to be superior to everything that was out before it just because they paid money for it.

If it isn't as good as they thought, they were deceived. If it was better when initially launched, but is balanced down, they were deceived.

Even PGI said clan tech was not going to be better than IS, but different to try and maintain balance. Still, people bought it for an edge over everyone else and then belly ached when the balancing passes hit.

Look. The best thing to do is to treat mechs like... Hats. Ok. You buy a mech because it looks cool or you have nostalgic memories of playing it in TT or past MW titles. Don't have any expectations about performance other than it will be middle of the road. I think many people would be a lot happier that way.

Except mechs aren't like hats. On TT, Clan mechs are vastly stronger. When they were released for this game, again they were vastly stronger.

And yes, all content is aimed at your wallet. What I meant is that if mech sales were dropping, the obvious way to give them a lift is to introduce some very powerful mechs available only for real $.

lordtzar, on 25 June 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

There have been at least two waves of nerfs to all/most clan lasers.

Range reduction, heat increase, duration increase, damage reduction, ERSL + ERSPL ghost heat. While some of them have had some tweaks to try to bring them up a bit, they're still a far cry from where they were at release.

And the SCR/TBR nerfs were people bitching about how hard they were to take down. I don't get it. They twist pretty fast, but they never seemed particularly tough to me. You know, like a thunderbolt/stalker with at least half a brain.

Combining your statements and those of the guy you quoted, we see that clan mechs were 1) only nerfed after their release for c bills and 2) those nerfs were substantial.

Was that not the point you were making?

[Kdogg788]

I have no idea what the OP was complaining about. They never mentioned a specific nerf of anything. Change is the rule of any game, especially this one.

-k

[Green Mamba]

Here you go

[Black Arachne]

Steppenwulf, on 24 June 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

PGI needs to knock it off. they will put themselves in an actionable position very soon if the trend continues.

The only way for this be actionable if new laws were passed regarding virtual goods. It's only a matter of time - we're already starting to see return options on digital content.

[Serpieri]

Virtual Goods should be treated like regular goods - you should be entitled to a refund if the product is buggy, not advertised as in, and quality is poor. After all, your not paying for the item in virtual funds. However, the tricky part would be changes to the product. How do you handle an item that was nerfed 30, 60, 90 days or years after the purchase? Refund? Store Credit? Nothing? This practice can be seen as a Bait n Switch. And if an item is buffed - do you have pay extra? And would that be p2w?

[Summon3r]

if you havent learnt buy now to expect your purchases to be altered then lol

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

red devil2, on 25 June 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

I've paid. A lot. I'm glad if they nerf if this ensures a bit more of balance. If you pay to have a better mech then you are playing the wrong game. Go play wot and have fun with their gold brainless ammo.

They can balance better, though..

But this game works similar. Hero mechs are usually better than other variants of the chassy and lately pack mechs like the stormcrow timber or the caldron born are pretty much way better than other mechs regarding their podspace, hitboxes and so on. once those mechs hit the cbills option they are going to be nerfed.

[Triordinant]

Another whine about crutch 'mechs being nerfed even though they should've been nerfed over 6 months ago.

[orcrist86]

Yeah okay, let's get a refund anytime balance changes happen. That's the death of all online gaming. People are just so .... Ugh. See what you did! I shat my pants in anger!